Just Swinging In For The First Time

[Bernard]

There are a couple of tests that can be done to measure mineral levels. A common test is measuring minerals in hair or skin. These tests are not considered as reliable as blood syrum testing, but they are more convenient and cheaper to do. Stacy's doctor has ordered both types of tests for her in the past.

[Bathtub]

Well maybe it's something like, they have to use quantitative objective tests because the cows can't tell us about their auras and how they percieved what was happening just before they fell over, what they experienced during the siezure and how they felt afterwards. It may not be the best tool, but the only one they can use for that patient population?? Or because they may aim to treat the entire herd preventatively rather than each individual reactively? ("I'm sorry but some people in your town are obese, so your foodsupply is cut")

[MonkeyBoy]

Neither one of you get it or will ever get it. Look higher up the chain and you will understand the "why"... We did not take modern medicines word and we looked and found the answers. They were there all along and it did not involve prescription medicines. In whose best interest is it to actually cure or to only treat? Pretty simple deduction in my lowly opinion.

[Bernard]

See this post and the one that follows it to understand the importance of measuring ionic mineral levels in the blood versus, say, mineral concentrations in the hair, nails or skin:

There is a cure for epilepsy...

[MonkeyBoy]

Just in case you want to show your doctor the machine they can purchase and do their own in house testing as well as be more accurate point them to this site.... be warned though. They will probably say that they do not need it or do not understand it.

http://www.novabiomedical.com/produc...phox_ultra.php

[Nakamova]

One test that can potentially spot a magnesium deficiency is the oral magnesium load test. The person is given a large loading dose of magnesium. Baseline and postload magnesium concentrations are determined from serum and 24-hour urine specimens. In other words, it's not just the blood serum content which is measured (which can be deceptive given Mg concentration in other areas of the body), but the rate of magnesium metabolizing as well (determined through the urine test). This can show whether the body is retaining magnesium at a high or low rate. A higher rate of retention suggests a magnesium deficiency.

[Silat]

Neither one of you get it or will ever get it. Look higher up the chain and you will understand the "why"... We did not take modern medicines word and we looked and found the answers. They were there all along and it did not involve prescription medicines. In whose best interest is it to actually cure or to only treat? Pretty simple deduction in my lowly opinion.

It's not my concern whose best interest the methods are in, I'm concerned whether or not the methods used for diagnosis and treatment actually stand up to the scientific method. If they can't stand up and be proven by the scientific method, then they can't be considered a "cure". Thus far, there is no "cure" for Epilepsy, only treatments. Once a scientific cause is isolated for all epilepsy, then a cure can be found.

Epilepsy is a diagnosis based on symptoms. Those symptoms can come from a huge number of different reasons. What works for one person may fail miserably for another. Because there is no root cause for all Epilepsy that has been found by medical science, there is no cure-all for it. It has to be treated on an individual basis, with methods that are custom tailored to each individual.

While not every doctor is willing to do that, and some would rather hand out a pill and be done with it, not every doctor takes that approach. If you've found one that has, get a new doctor. Eventually they'll either be forced to change, or forced out of the profession. That's how the market works. If there's no demand for that doctor, that doctor won't have patients.

The first step any doctor takes when a person is having issues such as seizures is to get control over the seizures first. Medications that are perscribed do exactly that, and have been proven to do just that through rigorous tests via the scientific method. Once they are stopped and the patient is stable, the cause can then be sorted out, but the primary goal from the get-go is to stop the seizures first.

Each patient should and needs to be involved with and care about their treatment. I can't stress that enough, however what works for one person may not work for another, and that is important to take into account.

**

By the way, in your original post five days ago (6/29/2012), you said you'd been researching epilepsy for only a few weeks, and five days later you're convinced you've found the cure...? How do you know you've got the knowledgebase and experience to assert such a claim, or to disprove what either of us have said thus far?

No offense to you personally, but I feel that may be a bit premature of a conclusion.

[MonkeyBoy]

For those that are serious about doing their own research and gaining a real understanding of how Mg and Ca are involved in Seizures.... These are well worth your time and trouble to download and read and re-read. Study them until you know what you know and it is deep in your soul.

I downloaded these and many more in my quest to gain understanding beyond what the medical professionals were telling us. If the Forum allowed me to post the articles I would but it does not or at least I can not figure it out? Notice how old some of the articles are and that they are found within a "creditable" organization that the medical professionals can also access..... Most of these are stored in the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health or the Journal of American Medical Association Archives.... I will post the abstract or summary so that you can gain some awareness.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17454846

Serum ionized magnesium and calcium levels in adult patients with seizures

R. SINERT1, S. ZEHTABCHI1, S. DESAI1, P. PEACOCK1, B. T. ALTURA2 & B. M. ALTURA2,3

1Department of Emergency Medicine, 2Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, and 3Department of Medicine, State University of New York, Downstate Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York, USA

Abstract

Objective. Prior studies have been equivocal about whether or not serum levels of the divalent ions calcium and magnesium are altered during different types of seizures. Magnesium is a potential modulator of seizure activity because of its ability to antagonize the excitatory calcium influx through the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor. We hypothesize that serum ionized levels of calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+) would be altered significantly during certain types of seizures. Material and methods. A convenience sample of seizure patients presenting to an emergency department (ED) were enrolled in this prospective study. Novel ion-selective electrodes were used to measure Ca2+ and Mg2+. Data were reported as mean values¡standard deviations. Group comparisons were analyzed by ANOVA with post-hoc testing using the Bonferroni, or the Fisher exact test, where appropriate, a 50.05 (two-tailed). Results. Forty-nine patients with seizure and 32 healthy racially matched controls were included in the study. Seizure patients had a significantly (pv0.001) lower mean Mg2+, but not total serum Mg and a significantly (pv0.001) higher Ca2+/Mg2+ ratio than that in controls.

Conclusions. We were able to show significantly lower Mg2+ and higher ionized Ca2+/Mg2+ ratios in seizure patients compared with a racially matched control group.

I was not able to post any more info for the below links. Please download the articles to get the information.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13840893

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1919610

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1500911/

http://books.google.com/books?id=yvU...0LL.D.&f=false

[MonkeyBoy]

I posted several new links to guide those that are wanting to research further the possible causes of seizures and how magnesium and calcium play a critical role. These articles come from both the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health and the Journal of American Medical Association (JAMA). Look at the post above this one.....

[avandever]

Wow interesting conversations!
MonkeyBoy, thanks again for your insightful and grounded information. **Especially since it reminded me that my neurologist suggested Mg supplements back in Feb. Your research is backed up by my doctor.** I'm definitely going to ask the doc about my daughters previous Mg test results and am going to insist on getting an ionized version--I also noticed that hypomagnesemia contributes to headaches--my daughter complains a lot about them.

Bathtub--please consult your neurologist before making changes to your daughter's care; if they give you a hard time get a second or third opinion.

[Silat]

OBJECTIVE: Prior studies have been equivocal about whether or not serum levels of the divalent ions calcium and magnesium are altered during different types of seizures. Magnesium is a potential modulator of seizure activity because of its ability to antagonize the excitatory calcium influx through the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor. We hypothesize that serum ionized levels of calcium (Ca(2+)) and magnesium (Mg(2+)) would be altered significantly during certain types of seizures.

The study you cited shows that the two minerals are altered during a seizure. It does not claim, prove, or otherwise show that those minerals are the cause of a seizure. The hypothesis and parameters of the study were based on the theory that electrolytes are charged particles, so they would react to the increased electrical activity that happens during a seizure.

Their hypothesis seems to be correct. However it does nothing to show that those minerals were the cause of the seizure in the first place. It just showed that, indeed, charged particles in the body react to the increased electrical activity. They also had lower levels of magnesium in their serum tests after their seizures than they did before their seizures... It's interesting, yes, but as far as finding a cause for epilepsy, it doesn't exactly help. I've said it before and I'm saying it again, coorelation and cause are two entirely different things.

So let's move on... link two:

Clinical and experimental investigations have shown that magnesium depletion causes a marked irritability of the nervous system, eventually resulting in epileptic seizures. Although magnesium deficiency as a cause of epilepsy is uncommon, its recognition and correction may prove life-saving. Two case reports are presented which emphasize the importance of recognizing hypomagnesaemia in patients with acute intractable seizures.

By "Epileptic Seizures" they are referring to seizures in which abnormal electrical activity can be detected. So, non-psychogenic seizures. Do note: In bold I've highlighted the main point of the study in the abstract. It's uncommon, but it does happen. Nobody says it doesn't... but it's not the root cause of all epilepsy either. Also, I should point out that it's over *two* patients reports. That's not exactly a far-reaching study.

The third link:
Basically, it tells about how important magnesium is to heart health and function. This is true, however it does not point to a root cause of Epilepsy.

Fourth link:
I'm not inclined to trust "Inhibitory Properties Of Magnesium Sulphate & Their Theraputic Application In Tetanus." as a guide to stopping epilepsy. It was an interesting read, however it also doesn't bring any new information to light or point to a root cause of epilepsy. I also wouldn't recommend the intraspinal injections as a treatment plan for... well anyone.

It's fairly common knowledge in the medical community that magnesium levels being low can induce seizures, and it is something to test for, but it's not the root cause of epilepsy, nor is increasing magnesium uptake a miracle cure for everyone with epilepsy.

People should be aware of and test for magnesium affecting their seizures.
They should not be led to believe that it's going to be a miracle cure...

[MonkeyBoy]

Silat -

Seriously? You make these statements? Really? No way you read the sampling of articles I provided - way to long and way to scientific in such a short time. They also cost money to download. Did you spend the cash? I hope so and that you will actually study them one day to learn that which you seem to ignore.

Understand the 18K+ functions that Magnesium does in our bodies and you might understand things that could help you.

Have a good night and one of no seizure activities I hope.

[Nakamova]

I think Silat makes a fair assessment with this:

People should be aware of and test for magnesium affecting their seizures.
They should not be led to believe that it's going to be a miracle cure...

[Bernard]

There are already numerous dicsussions here at CWE discussing the role of minerals such as calcium and especially magnesium - deficiencies of which can cause (or exacerbate) numerous health problems. I think some people are focusing too narrowly on what MonkeyBoy is trying to say here. My wife was fortunate to have a doctor that was very pro-active in running these kinds of tests to help diagnose what was going on with her specifically (and what could be treated/corrected "naturally" or via diet/supplementation). Not all doctors go this extra mile. YMMV.

Even if you don't suspect mineral deficiencies had a role in the development of your particular seizure disorder, if you are taking anti-epileptic drugs, you should still consider testing once in a while to monitor potential deficiencies caused by the AEDs.