neurofeedback

Welcome to the Coping With Epilepsy Forums

Welcome to the Coping With Epilepsy forums - a peer support community for folks dealing (directly or indirectly) with seizure disorders. You can visit the forum page to see the list of forum nodes (categories/rooms) for topics.

Please have a look around and if you like what you see, please consider registering an account and joining the discussions. When you register an account and log in, you may enjoy additional benefits including no ads, access to members only (ie. private) forum nodes and more. Registering an account is free - you have nothing to lose!

memike

New
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hello,

I've been being treated with neurofeedback for about 2 months now, and the Dr. who is administering it is talking about possibly ending the treatment or at least taking a break to see if it is doing anything. I'm not sure exactly how this works so for any who are familiar with my story you can skip the next paragraph.

I am not someone who has dealt with epilepsy my whole life. I think the first time I had a seizure was when I was 18 (1997) but I am not totally sure about that. If it was then I didn't have another one until 2006, when it was most likely because of a brain tumor I found out I had. My neurosurgeon was able to remove the vast majority of the tumor (90% or so). He wanted me to do chemotherapy but since it was an ologoastrocytoma and only 1 or 2 on the scale of seriousness I opted to hold off considering the success rate of chemo for brain tumors wasn't too grate. I was on Dilantin for at least a year (maybe 2) and getting a MRI at least every 6 months. After about 3 years (maybe more) I was off the Dilantin and all was considered to be well.

That is until May this year, when I had my first seizure in about 5 1/2 years. It was a grand mal, and I've had about one about every 7-10 days since then. That is until I started the neurofeedback (nf). The postictal phase was pretty typical before I started the neurofeedback being 15-30 min. I didn't know what day it was and sometimes even forgot who people were. Once I started the neurofeedback the postictal period after the seizure was pretty much not at all. In fact before I was not conscious for the seizures at all before but now I'm pretty much conscious through the whole seizure even the when they are grand mals.

Another positive note is that the intensity of the seizures started to decrees. But on the negative side they have increased in frequency. Since I started the neurofeedback I even had 3 grand mals in one week. So it is tough to say if my body was just adjusting or what.

Any I was wondering if anyone had any success with neurofeedback, or if may I should go to a different place since this Dr.'s specialty seems to be with ADD kids and such and doesn't seem to have much experience with people with seizures?
 
Hello memike,

My Son just turned 27 and he has Epilepsy (T/C and partials). He has been in neurofeedback/therapy since last December. We are seeing great results.

We do not believe this therapy to be a cure for Epilepsy and we knew this when he signed up but it sure can make changes for the better.

My Sons brain locks in hyper alert mode, especially with eyes closed and he has mainly nocturnal seizures (not strictly)...almost impossible for him to truly relax, he is always 10steps ahead…Neurofeedback is helping train this down. It’s also teaching him techniques (his brain) to stop, reflect, better control of negative emotion, clarity of mind, memory improvement.

Adjustment/shift in your brain is taking place and changing your seizures, not sure if this would be possible healing or that the therapy is too intense?? What does your current doc say?

Is your doc doing EEGs to see measure the changes/facts? If not, how does this doc measure results?

Every approx 6 months my Son has EEG to measure if the therapy is giving results. If the EEG shows no improvement, they would stop, because not all brains are trainable but the conclusion is that he has a trainable brain (LOTS of people do). In his last EEG just we could see big improvement compared to prior EEG (I am waiting for them to send us a copy).
Anyway, he is going to keep up the training and he is looking at another full year of it (once a week). It takes a long time to truly train (change) the brain. Again, great thing about the EEG is, you can see the results or not, the real and true facts...

Keep us posted and a warm weclome to CWE!
 
Hi memike, welcome to the forum. :hello:

My wife used NFB with varying degrees of success in controlling her seizure activity, but as Chaz1 relates, it had other benefits (improved overall cognitive function, memory recall, less severe post ictal periods, etc.) even when it didn't help achieve 100% seizure control.

Is your practitioner involved with the ISNR, EEG Info or other professional group? From what I have observed, they all consult with each other on handling issues outside of their specialty. I wouldn't necessarily be put off just because the practitioner has focused on ADD/ADHD.

Do you know what kind of NFB (protocol) you are using - SMR entrainment, QEEG guided, etc.?
 
Hi Chaz and Bernard,

Thanks for getting back to me. I had to cut my post off early since it was getting late and my wife wanted to watch a show on the computer :) . As far as the EEG, I did a QEEG at the nfb place, and the Dr. strongly suggested that my neurologist do an EEG which my neurologist didn't see a point to. I ended up getting a different neurologist because it seemed like I was just another number to him. The other neurologist didn't see a point in the EEG either but was willing to order it. I'm not sure if you guys have ever worked with Kaiser but it can be frustrating to say the least.

As far as the NFB protocol he has me doing the SMR entertainment. As far as a ISNR, or EEG info professional group I'm not sure what that is so I can't say for sure. He is the only NFB practitioner that is an actual M.D. that I've found in the Southern California area. I know that he stays in contact with a neurologist in Texas and just started to be in contact with my neurologist.

I think he was expecting more results quicker though as far as seeing improvements. From what I understand people with autism and ADD and such that go to his clinic experience very changing results right away and it seems like he the seizure thing is new to him.
 
Hello memike,

Agree with Bernard, would not leave practioner only because of no Epilepsy experience (most important is that you are comfortable n as u say, not many around), wish there was a NFB program designed specifically for E, we not found one.

I’d like to hear what benefits you feel its NFT is giving u, if any?

At 20 sessions, would agree that some shift would occur/be visible= brain training showing some result/changes albeit even minor. A 2nd QEEG would show if changes are occurring and if your brain is picking up the training, amazing to see my Sons 1st, 2nd and now 3rd analysis can really see the change. Still he has long way to go).
But you know yourself best, only you can truly feel the change…. one QEEG then a 2nd is required to see if the brain is picking up the training...

Wonder what the doc is expecting to SEE if not running follow up QEEGs…? Or wonder - what is it he feels is not happening fast enough? Did/could you ask him?
 
...
As far as the NFB protocol he has me doing the SMR entertainment. ...

This was the first protocol my wife tried. It's also the earliest known/studied protocol used for epilepsy. In my wife's case, she did the NFB for 4-5 months with little visible results. We almost gave up on it. At some point after that though, it was like a light switch had been thrown and the improvements were dramatic and noticable.

... As far as a ISNR, or EEG info professional group I'm not sure what that is so I can't say for sure. ...

You could always ask. I know the Othmers (at EEG Info) and peeps running the ISNR are very friendly and interested in seeing NFB succeed, so they are good resources for any professional to draw upon.

... I know that he stays in contact with a neurologist in Texas and just started to be in contact with my neurologist.

I believe that Dr. Jonathan Walker in Dallas was the first to push a QEEG guided protocol. He claims some pretty impressive results with this method and I think it's the direction a lot of practitioners in the field are moving. Not sure if he is the Texas neuro your NFB doc is talking to or not.
 
Grand mal stop nf?

1. There are two ways to tell if this is being effective since the functional evidence is conflicted (increased freq + decreased intensity)
a. 19 lead QEEG (eo, ec and hyperventilaion)that you compare to the first one you should have been given. Compare the metrics that were being trained, especially absolute power, coherence and phase.
b. Compare the morphology of the raw signal to assess and compare the source localization of focal events in the two EEGs using JTFA but preferably LORETA time series analysis. This will tell you if the focus of the seizures have changed and/or shifted in frequency.

If your practitioner cannot do this you should get another doctor.Connectivity measures such as coherence and phase and knowing how to read a 19 lead raw signal is essential to treat seizures competently..

Also the software being used to train you should have trend capabilities, i.e. trends over time, over the sessions. Look at the trend reports.

If your seizures are more frequent it means either the threshold is now lower and/or you have developed something additional, e.g. new sites.
Best,
Gerald Gluck, Ph.D., BCN Sr Fellow
 
Woops my email didn't know I didn't know I had a reply

Sorry guys, and Dr. Gluck for so long I didn't know I had a reply.

The place were I did the NFB didn't do the hyperventilation thing QEEG. There was a kind of different that they said was much easier on the patient. I did do a hyperventilation type EEG with my neurologist through Kaiser though at the request of my doctor through the NFB place. That was back September 24th so it hasn't even been a month yet.

My doctor that does the NFB did another QEEG and didn't give me the results but it seems that if things had changed he wouldn't think it best to take a break from NFB. I will ask him next time I talk to him about it. From what you say Dr. Gluck it sounds like I need to get plenty of info from ALL my doctors and find out as much as possible about the NFB.

To let everyone know for know I am taking a break from the NFB because it is a 1 1/2 hour drive one way and it was getting quite tedious, particularly for my wife who has to drive me since we do have a 5 and 3 year old. Either that or I need to get a lot more info before I start it up again. Until then I am planning on starting the ketogenic diet. Has anyone tried that and if so what where your results?
 
Back
Top Bottom