New with something a bit different

[Jubileel]

I didn't do a through search but I don't think anyone else has come here with a dog that suffers epilepsy. Ginsie is an eight year old female Cavalier King Charles/Cocker Spaniel mutt that I love dearly. I got her from the pound in Mississippi when she was 18 months old. Around four years ago (give or take a year), she developed seizures (most likely from abuse she suffered when she was a puppy). She is currently on medication (Potassium Bromide) but I will be switching to a new medication (it begins with a z?) soon. She has had about a seizure a month lately which freaks myself, my vet, and even my parents out (mainly because they worry that she'll have a seizure when I'm not home and there will be no one to care for her).

The hardest part about taking care of her is that she can't speak. She can't tell me if she's in pain or if she thinks a seizure is coming. She will tend to be clingy before a seizure but she'll also be clingy if she thinks I'm going somewhere without her so it's not always a reliable indicator.

I've taken measures in my home that I've seen have helped greatly (she just has a grand mal on Dec 16th) like keeping the futon's mattress angled to the floor so she will roll -not fall- if she has a seizure while up there. I've blocked the staircase in my house when I'm at work so she can't climb up them -keeping her to the first floor.

My questions on the board will probably be geared towards trying to figure out what the dog is going through since she can't tell me what she's feeling and any new medications/research that might help her. I have noticed that if I give her Gatorade right after a grand mal, it does tend to help her a lot. Has anyone else tried that?

[Rae1889]

Gatorade most likely helps because it helps to balance electrolytes that are used up during a seizure. I have to say though, that you are an incredible dog owner. You care so much for your little fur child that it makes me smile. Not alot of owners would do that. Infact my fiance's parents have a huskey cross that has seizures *in the 4 year I have been with him I have only seen her have one grand mal and one complex partial* and they do nothing for her. They just make her stay outside all the time and if she is inside they keep her in one small corner by the door.

Big props to you to finding answers. Just one word of advice incase you dont know yet. She may become aggressive after a seizure and bite you if she doesnt recognize who you are at first. I say this only because I have bit my fiance after a seizure and I'm not a dog.

[Chel]

Hi Jubileel

Welcome. Sounds like Ginsie is in the right hands. I like the methods you're using so far to ensure she's safe when you're not around. Also, because she might be thirsty and seek out water after a seizure, make sure there are no deep or wide water bowls, fish ponds, pools etc she could fall into during a seizure or during post-ictal period, and drown.

I had a Cavalier with "fly-catcher's syndrome" many years ago, and joined the Epil-K9 email group, as fly-catcher's was believed by some to be a form of epilepsy. It's also believed to be obsessive-compulsive behaviour, and given that hers went away when she went to a new home, I think that's more likely. Anyway, you can join that email group through this website if you're interested:
www.canine-epilepsy.com

Good luck with Ginsie!

Cheers
Chel

[Jubileel]

Aw, thank you Rae! I'm very fortunate in that Ginsie doesn't become violent after or during a seizure. She'll look like a fish out of water for a bit and then go into what my family calls "Dorthy mode". The after seizure got the name Dorthy mode due to Ginsie going around and sniffing everything and looking at everyone like "And you were there! And you were there!" like Dorthy at the end of the Wizard of Oz. It made more sense, given her behavior, than drunk puppy mode.

I am disheartened to hear someone would let their dog get seizures without any treatment. Potassium Bromide costs me about $50 a bottle and it lasts for three or four months. It's not exactly a huge expense and it certainly has helped my pup up until now.

Also, thank you very much Chel for that link! I will check it out and see what else I can find out.

[travel bug]

Hi Jubileel

Sorry about your poor little Ginsie, bless both your hearts Dogs are such a comfort and a treasure, I don't know what I'd do without my "baby".

Has your vet ever discussed diet with you? There's a vet who calls himself "Dogtor J" (note the g instead of c) who has developed a diet for dogs with epilepsy that has been successful with people too. It's called the GARD diet which stands for Glutamate and aspartate restricted diet (I think). You said that you thought that Ginsie's seizures were caused by some early abuse, so I don't know if a diet change would help, but it might be worth looking into. There is information on this site about the GARD diet, or you can go to
www.dogtorj.com

Wishing you and Ginsie all the best

[Endless]

Hi, Jubileel,

Welcome to the forum!

Yes, a dog is something new in here.

I don't have tonic clonic seizures (used to be called Grand Mal). But the people in here say when they do, they feel like they've been hit by a train. They are very sore and painful. Does it look like she's having trouble moving around after a seizure? If so maybe ask your doc about baby aspirin for afterwards?

Your puppy is so lucky to have you for a mom.

[Jubileel]

Travel Bug - thank you so very, very much! I checked out the site and it was immensely helpful. I knew that the dog food I have her on now wasn't helpful but I wasn't sure what to switch too. After reading over the site, I've found a reasonable alternative and the new dog food should be here on Monday. (Honestly, reading over the ingredients on the new dog food, it sounds like something I'd eat!)

Endless- A very good idea! The December seizure wasn't bad as far as her seizures go (scared me to death when she looked like she got "stuck" in a stretch while getting up off the futon/couch) but the November one was certainly one where aspirin might be helpful. I was only home during her November seizure by the grace of God. I had been planning on going to a party -forgot the directions- had to turn around to go home, hit every single red light on the way home (to the point at the light that is never red, I was like "Uh, is there some reason I need to be late to this party?"), and ran into the house. While I was typing in the address into my phone so I could use the phone mapping as directions, I heard a horrible clang. Running out (the party was a re-enactment one so I was in full 1812 gear. I'm sure I looked a sight!) I saw Miss Ginsie on the front porch (I had left the door open so she could go outside) in a full seizure. I ended up having to call my friends and tell them I couldn't make it but I am VERY glad I was there while she was having a seizure.

Anyway, the after affects of that one were pretty bad. She didn't come out of the seizure for about a minute and a half and she didn't come out of the "Dorthy mode" for a good eight or nine hours. I'll see if aspirin will help that in the future. Thank you!

[Chel]

Hi Jubileel

As Ginsie is half Cavalier, do you know that they can have a condition called Episodic Falling? It looks like epilepsy, but it's not clear whether or not it is (at the moment; research is being done). It does sound very much like Ginsie is epileptic, but here's a website on EF:
http://www.episodicfalling.com/
There are also a lot of videos, both on the site and also on youtube.

Your description of Ginsie looking like she was stuck mid-stretch reminded me of EF, as these dogs often try to put their forelegs over their heads.

Chel

[Jubileel]

Huh, I've never heard of or seen episodic falling before. After looking at the videos, what Miss Ginsie has is very different but it was interesting to see nonetheless. Ginsie looks like she's screaming but there isn't any sound. She'll foam a bit at the mouth and she'll "twitch" like someone is plugging her tail into a socket. She won't respond, at all, until she comes out of the seizure. Her normal inclination is to try and stand up right away but I think I might have discovered a way to keep her calm until I think she's ready to stand up -singing to her. As silly as it might sound, she seems to stay a lot calmer and doesn't "flail" about when she's coming out of the seizure. Granted, I've only tried it once but I know there will be a second time to try it again.

[travel bug]

Hi Jubileel,

I'm so glad you found the dogtorj site to be of help; he seems really smart, caring, and passionate and has helped a lot of dogs and people. (Well, dog people and human people)

I just wanted to remind you to change Ginsie's diet gradually. I'm sure you probably already know not to abruptly change from one food to another, but I had a sharp reminder recently.

I had run out of my baby Skeeter's food and had left her spare bag in my mom's car so I gave her some of my mom's dogs' food. I often "baby-sit" my mom's dogs and had some of their food left over and thought it would be okay because it's the same brand and flavor, just the formula for older dogs instead of small dogs. Not a good idea My poor baby had an allergic reaction which made her itchy all over. The vet said that even a small difference in the protein content can make a big difference. But fortunately, she's much better now

Best wishes to the two of you

[travel bug]

Huh, I've never heard of or seen episodic falling before. After looking at the videos, what Miss Ginsie has is very different but it was interesting to see nonetheless. Ginsie looks like she's screaming but there isn't any sound. She'll foam a bit at the mouth and she'll "twitch" like someone is plugging her tail into a socket. She won't respond, at all, until she comes out of the seizure. Her normal inclination is to try and stand up right away but I think I might have discovered a way to keep her calm until I think she's ready to stand up -singing to her. As silly as it might sound, she seems to stay a lot calmer and doesn't "flail" about when she's coming out of the seizure. Granted, I've only tried it once but I know there will be a second time to try it again.

I guess I was posting while you were, so I didn't see this before. Oh, that must be as hard on you to witness as it is for Ginsie to experience. I really hope the change in diet helps!

[Chel]

I might have discovered a way to keep her calm until I think she's ready to stand up -singing to her.

Singing, speaking calmly and quietly, petting from head to tail in a soothing manner, cuddling the dog if it's small enough - all of these things help them to "centre" when they come out of their seizure, and not to panic. Dogs need to be kept quiet after a seizure, and as their humans, we manage that for them.

With Episodic Falling, they often get up afterward and go about their business as if nothing has happened, which is one difference between it and E.

Golden rule with either condition: If you stay calm, they'll stay calm.

There are lots of resources on the Epil-k9 group, but to be honest, I found the email group depressing. However, it did give me access to useful pages on the website.

cheers
Chel

[barbara]

No no no aspirin for dogs or cats never never never

[Jubileel]

Barbara, umm...why? The vet I've gone to for many years has recommended aspirin for my pup before. I think you must be mistaking it for Tylonel? Which shouldn't be given to animals. There are large chemical differences between baby aspirin and children's Tylonel.

[barbara]

no aspirin! dog's inflammatory process is not like humans.you could kill your dog.ask a vet what to do.

[barbara]

Do you have a University near you?In the USA we have a vet clinic at universities.Even though they are mostly students they are up to date on new info.I was thinking maybe a valium like medication but am not sure how safe that is either.I am not saying animals don't feel pain but they don't necessarily experience it the way humans do.I am also not sure about your breed.Very small dogs have seizures alot when they get old.If you are worried about pain maybe Dr. Franks homeopathic spray?