Multivitamins

[resaebiunne]

Good. Next time you see her, ask her how she feels about turmeric.

What is turmeric?

Also, I am becoming curious about the moringa, articularly in the context of using it as a "vitamin replacement".

Actually, the reason I started this thread was because I would like to find a replacement for my current multivitamin when the time comes to buy more.

 

[AlohaBird]

I didn’t say that going above the RDA was unsafe. I agree they are not the maximum your body could tolerate but ingesting the maximum tolerated levels is stressful to the body. What I said was that our bodies work best when such vitamins/minerals are at an optimum level/dose without going above what your body can use.

Was anybody disagreeing?

I haven’t been able to find anywhere that said that. Can you cite your source?

You were talking about one severe medical condition and one nutrient, B12 and pernicious anemia. I was saying that nutrient malabsorption due to AEDs is not that severe and is more broad. Unlike in pernicious anemia, your body is able to absorb nutrients, but it just doesn't get enough. Giving it a little more nutrition seems like a reasonable action to me. I didn't know I needed a scientific citation to advocate something so self evident.

Actually, people do eat other parts of the plant. For that reason I’d be very careful that there is not roots, bark or flowers when buying a supplement. Here’s an example of just one site that tells people to eat those.

https://www.naturallybetterclinics.com/the-mystery-of-moringa/

As you pointed out, these parts of the plant other than leaves and pods are made into *medicine*. This is not the same thing as people *eating* them.

The supplements I was describing are clearly labeled as Moringa LEAF powder and capsules. The leaves can be harvested over and over like mowing grass very inexpensively. Nobody is going to slip some of the other parts into your capsules as filler. People making medicines will pay top dollar for the roots, bark, and flowers because those require a mature tree.

I never said it didn’t have vitamins, I pointed out that your link said it was not a proven cure for a long list maladies.

I said that up front. Multivitamins are not a proven cure for anything either but it still might be a good idea to take one.

I understand what the "appeal to antiquity fallacy" is and I don't appreciate the condescending lecture on logic.
The only appeal to antiquity that I was making is that Moringa couldn't possibly be as dangerous as you claim or large parts of the Asian and African continents would be unpopulated by now.

I’m a bit confused. You say there is lots of “very good scientifically valid information” but then you say that it will never meet the standard of western medicine- which is all based on scientifically valid information. This makes no sense to me. I am aware of some very preliminary studies but being so preliminary they shouldn’t be given too much weight yet. To be “very good” it must have been tested in a double-blind study & have the results duplicated by an unassociated lab.

This is my point exactly. You only understand and accept as valid one definition of "scientific".

By the way, they have done studies on spinach for ATP formation, Serum antioxidant capacity , and numerous other things. As for Moringa, they have analyzed it and yes…. It does have vitamins & minerals but from what I can tell, as of yet all studies are either in vitro or in rats/mice.

Thanks for the tests on spinach! I notice you didn't post any of what you found on Moringa.

The thing is the parts of the world where they do gold standard tests are also the parts of the world where spinach is common and moringa is exotic. We don't have that kind of lab here on Molokai, but if you would like to come over and fund one....

BTW, Moringa has way better nutrient stats than spinach.

 

[AlohaBird]

What is turmeric?

Also, I am becoming curious about the moringa, articularly in the context of using it as a "vitamin replacement".

Actually, the reason I started this thread was because I would like to find a replacement for my current multivitamin when the time comes to buy more.

Turmeric is a spice which is used in a lot of Asian and in particular Indian cuisine. It is the stuff that makes curry powder yellow.

There is some good research, I'm sure not quite good enough for Epileric but good enough for me, )) saying that it is neuroprotective.

That is exactly how I use the Moringa leaf capsules, as a multi nutrient supplement. It has not only all the vitamins and minerals of a multi, but also all the essential amino acids.

 

[Bernard]

AB & Eric - please play nice. OP was interested in what supplements folks were using. Let's respect the purpose of the thread without sticking needles in each other.

 

[AlohaBird]

How is your Moringa cultivation project going, Bernard? Did you ever get them growing or do they just not like Texas?

 

[Bernard]

I got a few to sprout, but they never got more than a foot tall. Local insects apparently like Moringa very much and left me with a stick in the dirt.

 

[AlohaBird]

Well, you will have some very well nourished insects I guess.


I haven't tried growing my own yet. Moringa is very prevalent in the cuisine of the Filipino people who make up a large part of the local population. As told to me by a Filipino person, they refer to having a Moringa tree in your yard as, "Flying the Filipino flag". They can tell where other Filipino people live by looking at their trees.

Most of the farmers market stalls here are run by Filipino people and they seemed a bit surprised at first when I wanted to buy some Moringa leaves and pods from them. Now they like the extra business and are competing with each other to show me that theirs is the freshest this week. So I've got so much Moringa, I can't see the point in growing it.

I've been adding the leaves and pods to all sorts of cooking and I find it gives a pleasantly peppery taste somewhat like cilantro or parsley. The pods stir fry up nicely while the leaves are great fresh in a salad or added to a stew or scrambled eggs.

I hope your growing project goes better next year Bernard.

 

[resaebiunne]

Well, I can say one thing about taking the magnesium supplements: It has made me more regular (in the sense of the word). Can't say it's done much for the seizures. I've been taking 2 pills a day, one in the morning and one before bed, so 250 mg total.

Going to look into ordering some Moringa oleifera soon to replace my multivitamin. I'm curious about the dosage though. How much is a good dose to keep similar levels to what I'm taking with my current multivitamin?

 

[AlohaBird]

I would think that potency probably varies depending on where it is grown. This is the company I get mine from and I take four of their capsules daily or one teaspoon of the powder. And they do ship anywhere.

http://www.molokaimoringa.com

Financial disclosure statement: This company is owned by a friend of mine but I was her customer before I was her friend. Also, on an island this size, it's hard to find anyone not connected somehow.

This is the only company selling it here on Molokai. The others on Amazon are all from Africa. I know that Molokai has incredibly nutrient rich soil since it is volcanic. I don't know about the regions where the others are grown.

 

[Nakamova]

Well, I can say one thing about taking the magnesium supplements: It has made me more regular (in the sense of the word)

Which kind of magnesium are you taking? Some of the varieties are much more likely to affect digestion than others. And some of them are better absorbed than others. The ones that have an effect on digestion aren't always the ones that are good for the brain.

It's also possible that magnesium isn't a crucial nutrient in your particular case. Seizure disorders can be wildly different in primary and secondary trigger for different individuals. For instance, once person's seizures could have a genetic component (say, an inability to process calcium), whereas someone else's might be related to hormonal fluctuations.

It never hurts to take a closer look at one's general health in search of ways that it might be improved. See http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f22/proactive-prescription-epilepsy-1254/ Best case scenario it has a beneficial effect on your seizures. Even if that doesn't happen you may find other ways to feel better as a result.

 

[AlohaBird]

There was a lot of good info contributed to this thread about the various magnesiums types, their absorption, and potential for digestive side effects.

http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f23/revisiting-magnesium-25241/

 

[resaebiunne]

So I'm thinking about my next vitamin order. I'm going to order from Piping Rock since they seem to be a pretty solid company.

My order will consist of the following:

* MCT Oil 1000mg softgels
* Moringa Oleifera 400mg capsules
* Probiotic Acidophilus 250 Million Organisms 240 capsules

The MCT Oil will replace the coconut oil that I have been taking only somewhat regularly. No reason for this other than the hassle of having to keep extra clean spoons around to spoon the oil. Soft gels are a bit more convenient.

Also, I'm a bit new to the probiotic arena. I'm wondering if I couldn't do better than the selection I've made. It seems to be a best seller on the Piping Rock website.

 

[masterjen]

So I'm thinking about my next vitamin order. I'm going to order from Piping Rock since they seem to be a pretty solid company.

My order will consist of the following:

* MCT Oil 1000mg softgels
* Moringa Oleifera 400mg capsules
* Probiotic Acidophilus 250 Million Organisms 240 capsules

The MCT Oil will replace the coconut oil that I have been taking only somewhat regularly. No reason for this other than the hassle of having to keep extra clean spoons around to spoon the oil. Soft gels are a bit more convenient.

Also, I'm a bit new to the probiotic arena. I'm wondering if I couldn't do better than the selection I've made. It seems to be a best seller on the Piping Rock website.

It is probably worth consulting a pharmacist regarding the best ones to take, and also to ensure none of the supplements will interact with other medications you're on.

 

[AlohaBird]

So I'm thinking about my next vitamin order. I'm going to order from Piping Rock since they seem to be a pretty solid company.

My order will consist of the following:

* MCT Oil 1000mg softgels
* Moringa Oleifera 400mg capsules
* Probiotic Acidophilus 250 Million Organisms 240 capsules

The MCT Oil will replace the coconut oil that I have been taking only somewhat regularly. No reason for this other than the hassle of having to keep extra clean spoons around to spoon the oil. Soft gels are a bit more convenient.

Also, I'm a bit new to the probiotic arena. I'm wondering if I couldn't do better than the selection I've made. It seems to be a best seller on the Piping Rock website.

I think those sound like great choices.
The MCT oil is also available in a bottle. Not quite as easy as popping a soft gel but it does have the advantage of being easy to add to smoothies or use for other cooking. Unlike regular coconut oil, it stays liquid not matter what the outside temperature. Depending on the brand, also a less costly option.

The important thing in a probiotic is to get one that will survive the upper part of your digestive tract to get to where it needs to be in the lower. I'm not sure about the brand you mentioned but some advertise being "enteric coated" to help them get past your stomach acid unscathed.

Other than that, the best probiotic is going to be the one with the widest variety of strains of bacteria in it.

 

[resaebiunne]

I got some new information today from an unexpected source. I had to get an eye examination in order to get my Florida drivers license (not that I can drive yet), and my doctor told me to be careful of beta carotene. Apparently beta carotene can cause lung cancer in smokers. I'm not sure if Moringa Oleifera contains beta carotene, but if it does I will stop taking it as I enjoy smoking cigars and e-cigarettes. A quick google search turned up a link on the NIH website: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20155614

 

[AlohaBird]

From that link:

"The ATBC study, the CARET study, the Antioxidant Polyp Prevention trial, and the E3N study provide evidence that the adverse effects of beta-carotene supplementation are correlated with the smoking status of the study participants. In contrast, the Physician Health Study, the Linxian trial, and a pooled analysis of 7 epidemiological cohort studies have not supported this evidence."

So it's only correlation not necessarily causation and there are several studies saying opposite thing. Four studies to nine. Jury is still out.

"The animal models consistently demonstrate negative effects only in the ferret, and following dosing with beta-carotene in corn oil at pharmacological dosages. No effects or even protective effects against smoke or carcinogen exposure were observed when beta-carotene was applied at physiological dosages or in combination with vitamins C and E,"



So, I wouldn't be concerned if I were you. First of all, you're not a ferret, right? JK.

Also, Moringa is a plant just the way it comes out of the ground. Pharmacological doses are only possible with synthetic beta carotene or maybe if you ate a whole Moringa tree.

Moringa also contains the vitamins C and E that the article mentions as being beneficial.


Anybody interested in learning more about mooring might find this video useful.
ETA link :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXDSksjGNCA

 

[Nakamova]

Interesting reading about supplements and epilepsy:
http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MedInfo/Supplements

 

[resaebiunne]

Interesting reading about supplements and epilepsy:
http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MedInfo/Supplements

Maybe it was the 2 cigars I just had, but jeez that article is all over the map.

It is interesting that they recommend fish oil for bipolar. I'm not sure if I'm bipolar, although I was diagnosed as "almost bipolar" if that makes any sense, before my psychiatrist diagnosed me with psychotic disorder NOS. (My understanding of this diagnosis is that it is essentially a catch all for people with psychotic symptoms that the doctor is unwilling or unable to make a real, more serious diagnosis). My new psychiatrist seems to be much more on top of things than my old psychiatrist so hopefully I'll get some answers.

To be honest though, I'm not really feeling the supplement thing. I've stopped taking the St. John's wort from concerns pointed out by other members. So far, the supplements have not seemed to have any real effect other than perhaps the coconut/MCT oil, but no real reduction in seizures, and since the seizures in July I've not had any hallucinations that I'm aware of. So really, I don't see the point. I'll stick to my medication and current regimine since it seems to be OK.

 

[BIGMAN131307]

Are there any good vitamins to help with hair? Prior to my surgery my only side effect from Trileptal was severe scalp dryness. After my RTLS I've noticed my hair thinning.
It's thinning on the left side and top. It's my belief that my brain isn't absorbing the Trileptal like its done prior, causing this reaction. I asked my neurologist about this at my last appt, but it didn't register. I didn't get to ask my PCP about this at my last appt.

What are some good vitamins I can take to combat this side effect?

 

[Nakamova]

It depends a bit on what may be causing the hair issues. It can be tough to pin down a specific cause, since the hair growth cycle is complex and has delays and dormant periods. It can take several months for the hair to recover or respond to any health issues. I experienced some increased hair loss when I first went on Lamictal, but that might well have been due to the negative metabolic effects of the med I was on immediately prior to the Lamictal (Zonisamide).

Long-term use of many AEDs (as well as the ketogenic diet) can sometimes lead to a deficiency of the B Vitamin called biotin, which some limited evidence associates with hair and nail issues. (It's also sometimes called Vitamin H, for the German words for hair and nails). So you could try eating biotin-rich foods (like organ meats or brewer's yeast) or taking a biotin supplement to see if it helps. And be patient, since the hair growth cycle might not show improvement for several months.
Some links for further reading about biotin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3509882/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2602924
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24012088
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/biotin-haircuts-plus-health-advice/

You might want to take another look at your diet (which I know you already pay attention to): A diet with too much sugar and high glycemic foods, or one with too little protein/iron/zinc can be problematic for hair.

Lastly, a dermatologist might be more helpful than your neuro in diagnosing and treating a skin or hair-related problem.