[Info] For those outside the US

[epileric]

I found the way this doctor laid out how the American medical insurance system works made it easier for me to understand the basics of it.

White Coat Underground

 

[Rae1889]

Still sounds just as cruddy...

 

[Chaz1]

The real 'basics' i.e. the facts...hard on the heart read.

So much for Democracy.

 

[Crash]

Makes you embrace the NHS over here,that much tighter,such a shame "moneytalks" over there.

 

[Loopy Lou]

Thanks for the post! The American health care system has always baffled me. In the UK pretty much the only things you have to pay for are prescriptions (currently £7.20 an item i think), glasses and eye tests, and dentists.

If you have a life long medical condition (such as epilepsy or diabetes) you tend to be exempt from those charges though. Nice to know i'm getting full use out of the taxes i pay.

I might complain about the NHS for it's slowness sometimes, but in reality i'm glad i don't have to pay for every doc visit, prescription etc. I'd never be able to afford it.

 

[epileric]

Thanks for the post! The American health care system has always baffled me. In the UK pretty much the only things you have to pay for are prescriptions (currently £7.20 an item i think), glasses and eye tests, and dentists.

If you have a life long medical condition (such as epilepsy or diabetes) you tend to be exempt from those charges though. Nice to know i'm getting full use out of the taxes i pay.

I might complain about the NHS for it's slowness sometimes, but in reality i'm glad i don't have to pay for every doc visit, prescription etc. I'd never be able to afford it.

Canada is very similar that way. We have to pay for anything to do with the optometrist and dentists.

Medications are partially covered. There's a deductible (changes from province to province) then everything is covered. However those who make more money usually have to pay more for their meds.

 

[Rae1889]

Canada is very similar that way. We have to pay for anything to do with the optometrist and dentists.

In Manitoba, if you have diabetes, you only pay half of the optometrist visits. If you are over 65 or under 19, you dont pay for the eye exam. Also if you have glaucoma or some types of rare eye disease, you dont pay at all. Mine are all free because of my extreme family history of glaucoma. My pressures are usually high, but I havent started losing vision yet.

 

[Bernard]

There is a lot of stuff not covered in that article. The reason insurance premiums are so costly is largely because of government regulations and medicare. We don't have a true free market in health care and government interventions are driving up costs. I reject the author's unstated premise that health care should be an entitlement.

That said, it's not that difficult to find care without any medical insurance. And while big ticket hospital stays are scary prospects, hospitals will work with patients to settle a bill (including charity discounts, zero interest payment plans, etc.).

 

[Nakamova]

I think there are trade-offs with both (all?) models of care. But I also know folks can have strong feelings about this topic, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Rae1889]

Yeah.
I would be terrified to live in the states.

 

[epileric]

Yeah.
I would be terrified to live in the states.

I think we are all very comfortable with what we are familiar and know. I know I have trouble understanding why someone would not want have healthcare as just another service like mail delivery but by the same token I have no doubt they would find my system just as bizarre and scary.

 

[Trinity]

There is a lot of stuff not covered in that article. The reason insurance premiums are so costly is largely because of government regulations and medicare. We don't have a true free market in health care and government interventions are driving up costs. I reject the author's unstated premise that health care should be an entitlement.

That said, it's not that difficult to find care without any medical insurance. And while big ticket hospital stays are scary prospects, hospitals will work with patients to settle a bill (including charity discounts, zero interest payment plans, etc.).

Why do you reject the premise of health care as an entitlement? As an Australian I believe that healthcare is an absolute entitlement - it is a basic human right. I don't believe that someone should have to go into debt and be sent bankrupt because of expensive cancer treatment or for any treatment really. I wonder why the life expectancy of Australians and Canadians are considerably higher than America (Australia is about 6th in the world, Canada 8th or 9th and America is 38th which I consider a huge jump). I don't think the answer is of course as simple as being due to one cause but I do think it has to be a contributing factor. Also there may be charities and payment plans but I have heard stories from American citizens who would disagree that getting help is 'not that difficult." I was heartbroken when one mother told me that she was unable to afford glasses for her children. Also if I am worried about my children (as with my eldest daughter swallowing the bracket from her braces) I know that a visit to the doctors or to the emergency room is not going to leave me out of pocket. X-rays are covered too and I probably would be in huge debt if I had to pay full cost for prescriptions alone. All my children, my husband and I are shortsighted. My youngest is visually impaired so even with glasses she has a significant loss of vision. We have to pay for glasses but thank God we don't have to pay for the optometrist to do an eye test and we don't pay full cost for Erin's opthalmologist or my neurologist. Also, thankfully we don't need to pay in excess of $1000 to have my son tested next week to see how the chromosome deletion he has effects him and whether or not he is on the autistic spectrum. I get that we all tend to be comfortable with our own environment we live in but honestly I would be afraid to live somewhere that didn't consider healthcare to be a basic entitlement for all.

 

[Bernard]

Why do you reject the premise of health care as an entitlement? As an Australian I believe that healthcare is an absolute entitlement - it is a basic human right. ...

I do not believe that any individual has a right to the labor of another. I believe in free markets.

 

[Trinity]

I am not quite sure what you mean by that? Do you mean that you really believe that nobody should be able to expect that if they get sick they will be able to gain access to treatment. If so that is pretty harsh, particularly if you are the one with an illness that nobody is willing to treat. I personally think it would be barbaric to have a completely free market in healthcare as too many people would go without.

 

[Bernard]

It's really beyond the scope of this forum - way deep into politics and economics. Essentially, doctors and the medical industry provide a service to customers. When government is not involved in the transaction, a free market will set the price of their labor. It's a libertarian ethos.

 

[Trinity]

Yes and many doctors do set their prices in Australia above and beyond the amount prescribed by the government and fair enough - that is their choice and if they are good enough they will get their own patients. I went to a doctor previously that I was willing to fork out extra for. Also I have had private health insurance too and am glad that whilst I may need to go on a waiting list depending on the urgency of my condition (if it is urgent or life threatening i would getmin straight away) I won't ever have to worry about getting public medical care now that I can't afford it. I really don't know why the two (private and public health) can't coexist - it does in Australia and is as perfect as any healthcare is ever going to get (meaning their are obviously going to be flaws in any system). Guess it is lucky you over there and I am here, where we are both happiest.

 

[Bernard]

... Guess it is lucky you over there and I am here, where we are both happiest.

Please don't take my comments to mean that I'm happy with the status quo over here. It's a far cry away from my personal ideal.

 

[KarenB]

I do not believe that any individual has a right to the labor of another. I believe in free markets.

Well, by that philosophy, then you must not believe in public schools, since (in most States) the schools are largely funded by homeowners taxes, and the bigger the home the higher the taxes.

 

[KarenB]

One thing I've noted, having lived overseas and in the U.S., is that I pay substantially more for the exact same medicine (brand name, made by same company) in the U.S. than in any other country I've been in.

 

[KarenB]

I do not believe that any individual has a right to the labor of another. I believe in free markets.

And what about the rights of those who -- due to disability -- are unable to labor?

Let's take epilepsy, for instance. Brain damage and lowered cognitive and memory and motor function induced by seizures and seizure meds may render many substantially unemployable. And even when cognitive function isn't affected, there's the issue of not being able to drive, and employers who are uncomfortable with someone having a tonic clonic in the middle of the workplace.