Is bad attitude a symptom?

[CJR]

My daughter woke up today and seemed to be in ultra slow mode. So when she finally made it downstairs for breakfast I got up from watching the AM News to get her pills (med & vitamin) for her. Just before I reached the table she grabbed her meds and started horsing on the top in an attempt to open the child proof cap. I immediately took it from her and told her that just because they're your meds doesn't mean you should be getting into them. She rolled her eyes at me (not seizure like) but with ATTITUDE! I told her to get her water and she did but she seemed to be baffled by the water dispenser. She said it's not working but her glass was half full! I told her to sit down and she swung around so quickly that she almost spilled her water. I asked her to set it down before she spilled it and she did but it wasn't a smooth movement. Instead it was jerky and erratic (almost spilling the water again!). I gave her the pill and instead of reaching for her water (which was on her left side) with her left hand she reached across her cereal bowl. In the process she spilled her cereal.

I sat down to check my e-mail (and to watch her eat her breakfast in case of more weirdness) so when she was done eating she came over to stand by me. I told her that I would do her hair and started to get up but she refused to move out of my way. Once I got up I gently tugged her arm to get her to move and she yanked away from me!

Now, I understand that she is at a certain age BUT she NEVER acts like this. It simply isn't tolerated in my house and she knows it. Despite giving her several "warnings" about her behaviour this morning she did NOT alter her attitude.

I finally gave in and called my doc on his cell phone (yes he gives out his cell! isn't he dreamy? LOL) and he said it could've been seizure activity presenting as attitude and defiance. He suggested that if it gets better in an hour or so (after the phenobarbital kicks in) then it most likely was seizure activity.

Has anyone ever dealt with seizures that present like this? Or am I overreacting? Or am I completely

[speber]

...or simply the fact that having epilepsy is a drag and can make you mad/mean occasionally....especially when you're young and don't understand the fact 'things happen' very well yet.
My daughter has attitude which we also don't allow...but that doesn't stop it from rearing it's ugly head. It is part of what makes her her.

You are doing everything correctly as far as I can tell...I hope it straightens out for you guys!

Peace
Spencer

[CJR]

Since then she had two more seizures which resulted in a near fall (she would've given herself another whack to the head if I hadn't caught her) and is running a low grade fever. 100.3. I dunno. She has me stumped.

[skillefer]

with Spencer.....sounds like an anti-epileptic drug issue....I'd call the neurologist and let him know since it is a change in personality.

[Bernard]

Sounds like a combination of seizures and anti-epileptic drug side effects to me. Either way, it doesn't appear that the drug is working (yet?).

[BuckeyeFan]

The phenobarb could definitely cause the symptoms you describe. It is one of the meds that can change moods even to the point of being mean. The unsteadiness could also be caused by the meds.

Definitely update your neurologist with this information.


Don't discount the teenage girl possibility. I raised three perfectly healthy girls and even though I didn't tolerate much either, I still was greeted with that attitude hundreds of times.

[CJR]

Thanks all! I appreciate your opinions and your helpfulness.

After speaking to Doc he says her meds might need adjusted but he would like to give her at least another week before making that determination. She's only been on the phenobarbital for 7 days so I guess I just need a little patience.

As for the teenage girl possibility I never discount that! Even if she is only 10! LOL. I truly beleive that she's been having absence seizures for years and the recent influx of hormones have triggered the recent "variety" of seizures. But if I call her on having attitude she usually adjusts her behaviour (sometimes only slightly) to avoid more trouble but this morning there was no change at all! It was odd (but then so is everything these days!).

[RobinN]

I have witnessed iritability as a precurser (aura) to seizures. You might also try using this in your favor to turn it in another direction.

I also think that the meds can surely cause this.

I know that hormones can.

Lucky you to decide which is which. Just know I am right there with you dealing with the same things. Hard to know when to let them off the hook for what they can't control and when to nail them for what they certainly can.

[mamaruns]

I have witnessed iritability as a precurser (aura) to seizures. You might also try using this in your favor to turn it in another direction.

I also think that the meds can surely cause this.

I know that hormones can.

Lucky you to decide which is which. Just know I am right there with you dealing with the same things. Hard to know when to let them off the hook for what they can't control and when to nail them for what they certainly can.

I have irritibility issues for all the above reasons. Seems like I'm irritable most the time anymore.

I think your daughter's attitude is mostly coming from a combination of her meds and seizure activity. I hope things settle down for both you and her soon, and that she's feeling better.

[epileric]

I know when I was younger & put on phenobarb I reacted by getting violent. I was usually very passive before that (probably due to anti-epileptic drug's) but I started bullying my brother & was VERY defiant & angry at my parents.

[RobinN]

I think pent up anger can cause this too.
What these kids are dealing with day to day, it is not wonder that it rises to a boil at times.

[brain]

It can be multiple things:

I know kids, teens, and even Senior
Citizens who've got 'tudes and they
don't even have Epilepsy!

"Don't be dissin' me off..." 'tudes!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then on the flip-side of the coin; I've
had anti-epileptic drug that triggered
me into some 'tudes, especially
KepRAGE (aka Keppra) while primarily
it put me into a state of psychosis,
but it sure did give be an attitude
once I was over 2500+ mg a day,
and by the time I was at 3000 mg
a day (1500 x 2) - you did NOT
want to be around me! Uh Uh!

Then there's this Phenobarbital
(thank goodness I'm allergic to
it) ~ freaky med! That med would
put me into a wide range of emotions!
I could be sweet and innocent as a
butterfly one day, and then the next
day I could be like Freddy Kruger!
Almost like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde!
Uh Uh - not going near Barbiturates
again! Freaky stuff! It made me more
on the nasty and mean side than any
anti-epileptic drug!

But oddly, while Mysoline is in the
same family, I had no side effects,
and I was pretty much myself - why?
They didn't know. It was a barbiturate
but they couldn't understand it. None-
theless, I never was placed on Mysoline
(aka Primidione) for very long periods
of time.

Tegretol & Trileptal - while I'm allergic
to those anti-epileptic drugs, they
made very argumentative once the
dosage was titrated higher and more
side-effects were becoming.

[CJR]

I have witnessed iritability as a precurser (aura) to seizures. You might also try using this in your favor to turn it in another direction.

I did notice that immediately following her two seizures that caused her to "almost" fall her attitude stopped immediately. Suddenly she was back to her normal cheery self. Although, she seemed a bit "hazy" and a bit tired.

When we discussed it later she said she remembered that everything that I or her siblings said to her just made her angry! She made a hysterically funny "mad" face to mimic how she felt inside and we were able to giggle about it. But THANKS TO YOU WONDEFUL FOLKS, I was able to tell her I thought that it might have been an aura (which I had never heard of until I started hanging out with the cool crowd at CWE). I explained that if she feels angry at everyone then it might be a signal that her body is preparing for a seizure. Then we launched into a long conversation about how to tell one irratibility from another...

[speber]

Sounds like some good stuff!

[RobinN]

...and if this is possibly an aura, she can attempt to turn it around before it happens.
I highly suggest:

Epilepsy: A New Approach: Adrienne Richard, Joel Reiter: 9780802774651: Amazon.com: Books

 

Epilepsy: A New Approach: Adrienne Richard, Joel Reiter: 9780802774651: Amazon.com: Books

[garfieldlea68]

Could be a side effect of the medicine or maybe she's having a bad day either way (I would've been crazy 24/7 with my symptoms with the meds I was on )
just stay with her whatever she does

[misseschris]

When I was younger my mother use to say that I went from Byotch to zombie and from zombie to byotch over night (not her exact words). Im pretty sure back then i was taking phenobarbital (it was the early eighties). We got the dosage tweaked cuz my mother was not having the eye rolling neck movin lip smackin drama from me. I still gave it a bit but not nearly as much as when I first started that particular anti-epileptic drug. Could be a combo girly hormone thing/anti-epileptic drug reaction so don't give her too much grief just yet:-)

[Phidippus]

Epileptics have their own special mood disorder and you'd do yourself a great service to educate yourself on it

lthough the tradition in modern psychiatry is to adhere to the classification systems such as ICD-10 (WHO, 1992) and DSM-IV (APA, 1994), it is well accepted today that psychopathology in disorders such as epilepsy transcends these conventional descriptions and has unique manifestations that are poorly reflected in these established classifications (Krishnamoorthy 2000). Depressive symptoms and disorders in epilepsy are therefore best classified according to their temporal relationship to the ictus.

Interictal dysphoric disorder: more recently, in 1998, (Blumer, 199 drew attention to a peculiar mood disorder seen in patients with refractory epilepsy, particularly temporal lobe epilepsy. Interictal dysphoric disorder is characterized by a constellation of eight symptoms and requires the presence of any three.

Depressive mood

Fear

Paroxysmal irritability

Anergia

Anxiety

Euphoric moods

Pain

Insomnia

Interictal dysphoric disorder is typically of short duration and occurs in various permutation and combinations. These symptoms occur at various intervals and tend to last from hours to two or three days. In women, these symptoms become accentuated in the premenstrual period. Blumer stressed that patients with several of the above symptoms maybe at increased risk of sudden, unexpected suicide attempts and also development of interictal psychosis.

[swimmy]

The only thing I want to add to everyone's great responses, it to not discount the fact that she's still young. Sometimes even I'm cranky when I'm not feeling well but don't know it yet, know what I mean? I think it's harder for kids to know when they aren't feeling well. They know something is "off", and it comes out in their mood, until it eventually manifests itself strongly enough as a seizure, or cold or flu, etc.

Just something else to make note of...

[RobinN]

I am there with you Swimmy - I just want to be left ALONE