Buying a TV with Epilepsy

[Dignan]

Hey all,

I have an old CRT TV that has finally imploded, so I am looking at buying a new LCD, LED, or Plasma HDTV. I've read that LCD and Plasmas are actually better for epilepsy sufferers than conventional TVs due to an increased Hertz rate.

Does anyone have any specific recommendations on things to shop for given ones propensity for seizures? A specific type of HD TV, minimum Hertz rate, anything else that is important?

I'd like to get something larger to fit my larger living room. 42" or higher. Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this?

Thanks

D

[Chel]

From a fact sheet produced by The Epilepsy Association of South Australia, tips for photosensitive epileptics:
Avoid poorly tuned TVs, or consider getting one with a high frequency (100hertz).

My TV is a geriatric, and will need replacing with digital one day. In the meantime I keep my polarised lenses handy when visiting others who have flat screen TVs, as many of them seem to set me off. Walking through the electronics section of department stores is not fun!

Happy shopping!

ETA: The Epilepsy Centre nurse did advise me which type (LCD or LED or Plasma) is safer for us, and I diligently wrote it down, but have lost the note. ONE of them is safer...

[gowings83]

I have a 42" plasma and I have no problems with it.

[Dignan]

Chel,

If you remember which one is best, let me know.

Thanks!

[Chel]

Will do, Dignan. I'll also ask what type Mum's is, as it gives me a little trouble, but not too much.

I'm highly photosensitive, and have to wear my sunnies while working at my home computer; my work computer sets me off at work, probably because of the interaction with the lighting there (which we've adjusted, but still having some problems). So this is a topic dear to my heart!

[Chel]

Ha! Knew I'd written it down somewhere; it was just a matter of finding the note.

Advice from the epilepsy nurse I spoke with, was that LCD screens are no good for photosensitive E's, and plasma screens are okay.

Then there's that 100hertz thingy as well.

cheers

[Dignan]

Thanks a ton!

Although I thought Plasmas used a different Hertz rate calculation.... I always see them at 600 hz, but they say that may be the same as 60 Hz on an LCD... I can't remember..

By the way, I'd love to see Austrailia someday!

[Chel]

The first company that includes "safe for photosensitive epileptics" in its brochure will make a packet in sales! It should be that easy for us to buy a new TV!

[gowings83]

It's too bad everyone manufactures for the masses, not the few like us. I guess in some backwards way that makes us special.

[Dignan]

I did look up the Hertz rate description and the 600 Hz rating on Plasmas is not the same as the 120 Hz or 240 Hz description on LCD/LEDs.

The plasma refers how color is produced not actual flash rate. The plasmas actually use the 60 Hz flash rate but have 10 subfields in each pixel that controls levels of brightness used in that frame as a means of producing the proper color levels. So, they market this as 600 Hz (60 Hz x 10 subfields = 600)

As far as photosensitive people go, the flash rate is still 60 Hz on plasmas. That would seem to mean that a 120 Hz LED would be better for seizures, but I'm still not sure since anecdotelly, I've heard some people say that Plasmas are better and that some people with seizures have had more difficulty (headaches and dizziness included - not just seizures) when using LED tvs.

I wish someone could clarify this for me.

[Brent]

A couple of things to think about:

First, most epileptics are not photosensitive. If I recall correctly, it is something like less than 5 percent. This is not the same as being photophobic (intolerant to light). So, for the vast majority of epileptics, the question is no more relevant than to the general public.

Second, some of this discussion of refresh rates is only relevant if we were talking about a computer monitor. If we are talking about TV, the actual refresh rate is governed by another standard (NTSC in the Americas more or less, and PAL or SECAM in the rest of the world). NTSC has a refresh rate of 60 Hz, whereas PAL (and I believe SECAM) has a rate of 50 Hz. Digital technology CAN alter this rate, but it doesn't necessarily. The refresh rate of the screen does not dictate the actual frame rate, only the hardware refresh rate. In other words, it is possible to get flicker on a digital screen with a refresh rate that is much faster than the flicker. I've seen this mostly in Europe, but that is probably because I am attuned to NTSC.

[Dignan]

So then are you saying it doesn't actually matter because regardless of which hertz rate you purchase the flicker rate will still be based on NTSC parameters, unless you have your TV hooked up to a computer for dual use as a monitor?

Also, i'm aware of the stats on photosensitivity, but there are indeed people on this site who are actually photosensitive. I myself won't automatically be set off by flashing lights, but if I am in the "aura" zone it will set me off. This happened to me once when I was having an aura. A flickering caused by dim lighting and ceiling fans did cause me to have a generalized seizure in a restaurant.

As a result, whether or not I am classically photosensitive or not, I tend to shy away from anything that could make an aura go fully generalized on me.

[Brent]

So then are you saying it doesn't actually matter because regardless of which hertz rate you purchase the flicker rate will still be based on NTSC parameters, unless you have your TV hooked up to a computer for dual use as a monitor?

No, it's more complicated than that, particularly now that most signals are going digital. Without going into a bunch of technobabble, I would just say that the refresh rate of the TV is no guarantee that the image being viewed is not going to flicker at any given rate. In particular, this may be more of a problem in Europe.

For a long time, I couldn't actually watch TV in Europe, not because it induced seizures, but because the refresh rate of PAL bugged my eyes out. It doesn't bother me anymore either because I've gotten used to it or because of the transition to digital. Europeans never seemed to notice the flicker, though visiting Americans usually could since we were used to a faster refresh rate.

As a result, whether or not I am classically photosensitive or not, I tend to shy away from anything that could make an aura go fully generalized on me.

I'm not really "photosensitive" either, though I tend to cringe at flickering or strobes. Not sure why - I don't think this has ever triggered a seizure. However, highly contrasting patterns will definitely set off seizures. For example, my sun has a pair of black-and-white checkered pants that will do it. (He's a chef, not a circus clown.)

[Dignan]

So, then, at the end of the day, do you have any preference for those with seizures who may be affected to some degree by flickering? LED or Plasma?

Or, does it not even matter?

[Brent]

I honestly don't know. My belief is that it doesn't matter as much as what you are watching. That is, video games will refresh at a certain rate, DVDs at a certain rate, digital TV at a certain rate (dependent on a number of factors), etc. Also, I don't think there is a refresh rate that is "safe". My understanding is that, for photosensitive epileptics, there is a certain rate that is that person's trigger - a little faster won't do it, and a little slower won't do it, but that it depends on the individual.

I don't know if this latter point is true. It is simply what an EEG technician told me.

But again, to be clear, I don't know. I'm just throwing out what I do know as things to think about.

[Chel]

So, then, at the end of the day, do you have any preference for those with seizures who may be affected to some degree by flickering? LED or Plasma?

Nothing scientific behind my response. As a photosensitive epileptic who is looking at buying a digital TV, I've noticed that plasma TVs give me very little trouble, and LED TVs give me at least a migraine (at which point I turn away).

[Dignan]

Well, I bought a 46" LED TV over the weekend. Even though I heard positive about the plasma, for me, when I was in the store, I seemed to notice more flicker in the plasma sets than the LEDs, so I went with my gut.

I've got a 30 day return option, so I'm going to try it out and try to make sure it doesn't bother me too much and find out if the screen size is too big or not.

I'll let you all know how the LED works for ME.

[Hand of Blood]

whats the difference between led plasma and lcd??

[Dignan]

For people that might be photosensitive or at least bothered by flicker, it seems it depends on the individual as to whether one or any of these technologies will be a problem. For most, they won't have any issues, while others may have to be more careful.

I found this online:

In plasma HDTVs, the phosphors that create the image on the screen light up themselves, and don't need any backlighting. For LCD HDTVs, however, the liquid crystal screen does not illuminate, requiring a separate light source. That's where the difference between "regular" LCD screens (also known as CCFL-backlit LCD) and LED-backlit LCD screens (also known as LED-LCD, or just LED screens) come in. Traditional LCD HDTVs use cold cathode fluorescent lights (CCFLs) to illuminate the screen. CCFLs are similar to the fluorescent lights you might see in your lamps and overhead light fixtures. They use a charged gas to produce light. LED-LCD screens, like their name implies, use light emitting diodes (LEDs) to illuminate the display.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387377,00.asp

[Dignan]

FYI - for anyone interested.

I've had my LED tv for almost 2 months and it hasn't given me any troubles in the seizure or headache department. Early on, it felt like I wanted to go cross-eyed, but I think I just need to adjust to having a larger screen. It also seems that an HD signal is better as well (I guess because the SD signal seems more blurred on an HD tv which can give you a headache).

Overall, I like the TV, but they are definitely more complicated now in terms of knowing what you are watching (HD TV, SD TV, DVD, BluRay, etc) and having the TV on proper settings for each one of those options versus the old CRT TV which was more once size fits all..