epilepsy link with bipolar ?

[vapour]

just wondering if anyone here has epilepsy and bipolar disorder.... I have both and wondering what the link is.. if there is one.

 

[Meetz1064]

I don't

but I know of several that do. What the exact link is, I'm not sure, but there evidently is one......

 

[Cetacean]

I was diagnosed as bipolar for a long time on the basis of persistant insomnia before a 2006 EEG turned up my temporal lobe epilepsy.

The bipolar medications didn't help.

I believe that it was not bipolar disorder but a surfeit of misery from the insomnia compounded by the debilities of complex-partial seizures that seem to have caused the insomnia.

That stuff is not good for your work life.

An update for the curious: I beat the insomnia and most "bipolar" issues with Benedryl last December 2008, but the anti-seizure med still wasn't working - this after three years of mucking about with med dosages and blood tests since the 2006 EEG. Doc tells me he gave me a "bipolar safe" anti-seizure med Trileptal at the outset, given the word "bipolar" appeared in my history. Recently switched to the more standard Tegretal and might actually be having good results judging by the last month...

This is to say that everybody guesses but MDs and PhDs get paid.

"A committee of experts is inherently comforting"
-Robert Oppenheimer

Implication: A committee of experts is not inherently right.

 

[Bernard]

http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f23/connection-bipolar-epilepsy-549/

 

[Cinnabar]

Studies are being done connecting Temporal Lobe Epilepsy to Bi-Polar Disorder as well as to a Dissociative Condition (DID) but there is no conclusive evidence confirming to date.

FYI. Lamictal is a very effective med, managing both Epilepsy and Bi-Polar Disorder.

 

[vapour]

thanks. Lamictal (brand name) nas been great for me, but not doing so good right now on the generic. I have been put on seroquel as the bipolar at times makes me not be able to sleep or eat (bad for E) i need the combination. Last time when I was not sleeping or eating and working out so much, I lost almost 10 pounds in weight in roughly 2 weeks... so back on the seroquel I went. Very very interesting regarding studies on connections between temporal lobes and bipolar... as its TLE that I have.

 

[jimijimenez]

I was diagnosed with bi polar 2 before TLE actually. I believe a lot of the mood problems center on "interictal dysphoric disorder", that is the brain inhibiting electrical activity between seizures (hence depression), and later heightened electrical activity (mania).This is prob why anti convulsants make good mood stabilisers. I am curious as to wether anyone else sees some distinctions with bi polar however? I think i prob experience heightened emotions that can alter quickly, and have more depressive symptoms and a milder mania than a "real bi polar". eg Last night i felt like i was on cocaine, (like an ongoing orgasm) and today im flat and apathetic, though ill prob feel great in a few hours. The frequency of these cycles seems too fast to be true bi polar, which... I think should be slower? (i.e mood rather than emotion) I also get a sore "emotional" adams apple feeling quite often? I monitor my mood with this!
I have found gabapentin to help with some of these issues and 6 grams of fish oil a day + exercise. Anyway the link between bi polar and tle is pretty clear IMHO, its an interesting topic.

 

[Cetacean]

Great Link Was Here - Look up to his post!

Great link to a previous thread on this topic Bernard. Full of interesting stuff.

There has to be a distinction between organic depression and cognitive depression, that is, between depression resulting from organic dysfunction with neurotransmitters, neurology, etc., and depression that results from the perception of futility, from lack of hope.

I think much of my experience with depression was the latter sort. I knew at a very deep level something was wrong with my head and that life would not go well unless it got fixed. The years of coping and failing to cope yielded their fruit of despair.

After I got the epilepsy diagnosis in 2006, depression cleared up. There was hope. There was action to take. Now it is 2009 and just had another seizure and doubts arise again, but it is nothing like it was. I still perceive hope, though it means less as the years pass by when I might have lived fully.

The "manic" symptoms were I think a consequence of insomnia. Wild-eyed loopiness from lack of sleep. The irritability may be the epilepsy itself. That other thread had references to articles connecting irritability with epilepsy.

When at least one doctor - Dr. John Barry at http://www.EpilepsyFoundation.org - speaks of these illnesses {sorry the BBS won't let me post the link}, the conclusions they draw from correlations teased out of clinical research do not well discern between cognitive and organic causes (or between causes and effects). That is unfortunate, because the best approach to treatment is likely to differ. Organic illness requires primarily biological intervention. Cognitive illness requires intervention towards resolving perceived/real stressors, such as futility, perceived or genuine .

This BBS is helpful therapy for the cognitive challenges of epilepsy - I feel less futile with the wealth of resources and kind support to be had around here.

It is one of the ironies of our age that when psychologists try to treat organic issues as if they were cognitive deficits, they themselves may be a significant cause clinical depression in their patients, speaking from experience.

Dr. Barry also mentions that patients who are suddenly cured of seizures e.g. with temporal lobectomy experience depression connected with the unexpected challenge of mastering skills and activities from which the epilepsy had previously excluded the patient. The patient and those around him may expect that the patient should immediately act "normal" when in fact there is a time consuming learning curve ahead to master complex and subtle social and other "maturational" skills taken for granted by peers.

E.G. once I beat my seizures I will still have to go get the business experience necessary to function on a par with my peers from B-school in the 90s. I don't really have that expectation, but that is one example of depression-causing side effect of epilepsy, a cognitive dilemma that the luckiest of us epileptics around here are near certain to encounter, and one better treated with counseling than prescription drugs.

:rainbownote:

 

[Cinnabar]

J- I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar II before Epilepsy as well. Your frequency of cycles is known as "rapid cycling", common to Bi-Polar.

c- It's very interesting that after your diagnosis of Epilepsy that your depression was kept at bay. I wonder though, if lack of sleep causes true mania. Is this the "only" time you experience mania?

 

[Cint]

Dr. Barry also mentions that patients who are suddenly cured of seizures e.g. with temporal lobectomy experience depression connected with the unexpected challenge of mastering skills and activities from which the epilepsy had previously excluded the patient. The patient and those around him may expect that the patient should immediately act "normal" when in fact there is a time consuming learning curve ahead to master complex and subtle social and other "maturational" skills taken for granted by peers.


I suffered from severe depression/mood swings for years after I had a LTL. I was seizure-free for only 14 months. And I didn't start having seizures in the first place until I was 23 years old, so for Dr. Barry to state that my depression was "connected to the unexpected challenges of mastering skills" is a bunch of hogwash! Plus, that is a huge impact on the body, so to make an adjustment, does take time. My moods are due to the neurochemical changes that constantly are going on inside my head, due to meds, seizure activity, things I eat, exercise and countless other things. The surgery re-wired my brain's connections, so it had to find a new path. Now the dr. says that I am Bi-polar II.


Another perspective from a neuropsychiatrist I once saw regularly:

http://www.neuropsychiatryreviews.com/dec00/npr_dec00_epilepsy.html

And BTW, to any of you taking some of the anti-psychotics used for Bipolar--
Risperdol, Seroquel, Zyprexa...... they have been known to cause Diabetes.
I developed Type 1 diabetes from taking ZYPREXA!

 

[Cinnabar]

I agree with you, Cindy. It's the neurochemical changes in the body which effects severe and chronic mood swings. I think Dr. Barry is grossly over simplifying that which is really a very complex matter.