The State of Ignorance re Epilepsy

[Elaine H]

I have just read a thread on Facebook that made me both angry and sad.

A man was asking for comments about PWE being possessed or having special psychic powers, as someone had told him about a woman who had a seizure, recovered and could suddenly speak fluent French and couldn't before. His local priest has told the poor bloke, that he "cannot be a Christian and have epilepsy at the same time" I could not believe this! He has also offered to perform an excorcism on him, "to rid him of his demons and evil spirits" Well folks, I suppose anyone who knows me, and the fact that I am very opinionated on the archaic views of epilepsy, will have a pretty good idea of what my reply was like, it's not the guy believing in it, he is just asking if anyone else agrees with the priest, it's the priest that I am gobsmacked about!!!

I just wanted to see what you thought about it, I know the people that frequent this site are pretty clued up on epilepsy, and are more than aware of the horrors of the "E" word, and the links to evil spirits and witchcraft that it conjures up, but can you believe that in this, the 21st Century, with all the medical and diagnostic technology we have,there are still PWE being subjected to idiots like this, in the church aswell?!

Hope you are all doing well? I'm still haveing the odd wobbler, but I am still smiling and still looking for that ever elusive perfect job!! Still trying to get the book typed up and looking forward to Summer!!

Lotsalove

Lainey xx

[JRuner]

I find this attitude insane in this day and age! As a person who had major seizures as a child and is now having some sort of new seizures psychogenic or not I would highly prefer a doctor over a priest during a seizure. I am a Christian and appreciate prayer but believe in God giving wisdom to doctors and hope that they can use it to heal me or least help me enjoy my life as much as possible. My cousin who is having multiple epileptic seizures everyday is not possessed he has a medical condition. People still think they need to put things in my mouth and hold me down when I shake. Exorcism is truly for demonic possession and not medical illnesses! Unless the priest can show the gentleman a medical degree and a text book advocating exorcism for epilepsy (note my sarcasm) I would be finding a different priest and continue seeing a Doctor about the seizures.

It would be nice to see a public service announcement about basic seizure response or even a T.V. special about epilepsy and current treatment. No matter what our seizures are caused by we are not bad, evil or insane not even contagious! I was at church helping with a youth group and had to explain what epilepsy and seizures in general were because many people don't seem to know!

Boy that priests ignorance makes me irritated!

John Runer

[Endless]

Unbelievable. Aren't priests required to take a certain number of hours of counseling education? If I were that guy I'd complain to the higher-ups.

[Zoofemme]

How odd to come acorss this. We were watching a documentarty last night about a similar subject.

A neuorpschologist emphatically stated that he could prove there was no such thing as possession, that it was in fact a result of the brain firing/misfiring in an agitated state even to the point of the creation of "paranormal phenomenon". Possession wasn't demons and eveil spirits inhabiting the body...it was the brain in a seizure state...and the symptoms typically manifested were most common to right temporal lobe seizures. He had created what he called the "God Helmet" and could recreate the same phenomen seen in possession in people WITHOUT seizures by stimulation various portions of the brain.

I think the sadest thing was the documentary reported that the catholic church is now performing more exocisms than it ever has and on a regular basis...particulalry in the US. If seizures are even a tiny bit responsible for some of the phenomena resposnible then how will those of us with E ever get past the archaic stigma associated with it?

[Loopy Lou]

I find these views very interesting. I mean, the demonic possession thing. Unfortunately, on my travels through google and the general internet, there seem be be a lot of PWE who genuinely believe, or are terrified, that they are possessed.

[Rae1889]

I do find this very odd.

I could see this in lesser developed countries, where medicine consists of praying. Bur in this day and age, and in this type of society, I should think that people be a little more open minded.

I work with 2 brothers from a hutterite colony and they were kicked out because their mother developed cancer. The colony said that anyone who gets ill has done something wrong and god is punsihing them, or they have been possessed by evil. so they got kicked out.

as an epileptic myself, I would tell anyone straight up that was this close minded and wrong to get educated and that they were the ones possesed for discriminating.

[Cint]

I think the sadest thing was the documentary reported that the catholic church is now performing more exocisms than it ever has and on a regular basis...particulalry in the US. If seizures are even a tiny bit responsible for some of the phenomena resposnible then how will those of us with E ever get past the archaic stigma associated with it?

Then those of us with E need to EDUCATE the Catholic church on not only E, but another three letter word with E in the middle as well!!

Perhaps perform exorcisms on the priests?!

[carlos.fonke]

Of course education is the key, but I have to resist the temptation to spread disinformation.

Epilepsy is both demonic possession and insanity rolled into one, you know. It's also airborne and highly contagious.

[skillefer]

How sad...what a poorly prepared priest. In regards to demon possession ( 2 major qualifiers):
1) the person must have a clean bill of health...no medical problem that may be causing problems either physical or emotional
2) signs of possession: unexplained strength, unexplained knowledge, etc...

as you can see..the person does not qualify as being demon possessed due to the medical condition. Any seminarian should know that.

(independent catholic priest, and proud of it!)

[Zoofemme]

The show was on again last night...it was on the Smithsonian channel. I think it was going into the facts that brought about the book "The Exorcist". I'm sorry I can't remember the actual title of the show...it is escaping me this morning

[Cint]

A neuorpschologist emphatically stated that he could prove there was no such thing as possession, that it was in fact a result of the brain firing/misfiring in an agitated state even to the point of the creation of "paranormal phenomenon". Possession wasn't demons and eveil spirits inhabiting the body...it was the brain in a seizure state...and the symptoms typically manifested were most common to right temporal lobe seizures. He had created what he called the "God Helmet" and could recreate the same phenomen seen in possession in people WITHOUT seizures by stimulation various portions of the brain.

I didn't see this show, but I have seen something similar on the Discovery Channel several years ago and have read a book about "Neurotheology" that includes this subject. Here is more on the creator of the "God Helmet":

HOLY VISIONS:

MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE OR BRAIN MALFUNCTION?
Experiments by Michael Persinger, and team:

Michael Persinger, is a professor of neuroscience at the Department of Psychology of Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada. He wondered whether religious, spiritual, and mystical experiences had a natural rather than a supernatural source. He speculates that we are somehow programmed so that they can generate religious experiences via our brain's internal processes. He had noted that there were many points of similarity between seizures experienced by some individuals who suffered from epilepsy, and the types of mental and spiritual experiences that St. Paul, Moses, and many religious mystics had reported. Persinger wondered if visions, a sense of the immediate presence of God, and other mystical experiences could be artificially created in the laboratory by magnetically inducing changes in the temporal lobes of a person's brain. He notes that "The deep structures of the temporal lobe are electrically unstable and sensitive to all sorts of things, including the biochemistry of stress, psychological distress, insufficient oxygen, and fasting. That could explain why, when mystics go through self-induced stressful rituals and yogis go to high mountaintops and fast, they report transcendental events." The use of fasting to induce mystical experiences is found in many spiritual disciplines throughout the world, in Native American religion, Shamanism, Christianity, etc.

Author Jack Hitte describes Persinger's theory as follows: " 'having a religious experience' is merely a side effect of our bicameral brain's feverish activities. Simplified considerably, the idea goes like so: When the right hemisphere of the brain, the seat of emotion, is stimulated in the cerebral region presumed to control notions of self, and then the left hemisphere, the seat of language, is called upon to make sense of this nonexistent entity, the mind generates a 'sensed presence.' "

Persinger developed the hypothesis that people who have experienced above average numbers of complex partial epileptic-like experiences might experience a "proximal presence" during an experiment in which a weak magnetic field was applied either to their right hemisphere, or to both hemispheres.

He built a Transcranial Magnetic Stimulator, starting with a yellow motorcycle helmet, and outfitted it with build-in electrical coils that can create electromagnetic fields in the wearer's temporal lobes. These are the part of the brain which are linked to religious belief, "time distortions, dream states and assorted odd physic phenomena." During an experiment, the subject sits in a quiet, dimly lit, room. Soothing music is played in the background. A "gently flickering strobe light" is provided. The subject's brain wave patterns are monitored by an EEG instrument.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/helmet.jpg

By 2002, he had performed the experiment on over 1,000 volunteers. 80% had some sort of supernatural experience. Many say that their experiences were "so profound they would be life-changing had they not understood the mechanistic underpinnings of what they had experienced." About one in every 15 subjects reports an intensely meaningful experience. One saw a figure of Christ in the strobe light. Others, depending upon their cultural background, reported Elijah, the Virgin Mary, Mohammed, or the Sky Spirit. Some have reported out-of-body experiences, a sensation of floating, and a sensation of "great meaningfulness."

His team conducted a study involving sixteen subjects. Six of the eight subjects who had previously experienced above average numbers of complex partial epileptic-like experiences sensed the presence of a sentient being during stimulation of their brain's right-hemisphere. A very weak, 1 μT (microTesla) frequency-modulated magnetic field was used. A microTesla is equal to about 2% of the Earth's magnetic field. Five of the eight noted a presence during bilateral stimulation. None of the eight subjects who had below average scores had this type of experience.

The helmet was given the ultimate test. The producers of the British Broadcasting Corporation's (BBC) Horizon science television series arranged to have Richard Dawkins try out the helmet. Dawkins is the well known author of "A Devil's Chaplain" and "The Blind Watchmaker." He is also a well known Atheist and skeptic. He was considered "the ideal candidate for a test of whether science can explain away religion, given his views of religion as a 'virus of the mind' and an 'infantile regression.' " Although Dawkins reported some strange experiences and tinglings during the experiment, no visions were forthcoming. It seems that Dawkins was not a likely subject for this experiment. He had previously scored low on a psychological test which measures proneness to temporal lobe sensitivity. Dawkins said: "It was a great disappointment. Though I joked about the possibility, I of course never expected to end up believing in anything supernatural. But I did hope to share some of the feelings experienced by religious mystics when contemplating the mysteries of life and the cosmos."

[dfwtexas]

I got diagnosed 2 years ago...my mother really does not like me to discuss my E. She finally told me that she was raised to believe E is demon possession and she cannot get over that. It is very hurtful.

[Endless]

Re: Dr. Persinger's experiments...

My subjective opinion... I believe that the way our brains fire doesn't create false mystical or religious experiences, I think it opens doorways to real ones. It is not a "dysfunction" of the brain, it is an enhancement.

He has taken a result of an experiment - people experiencing a mystic phenomenon, and he attached his own subjective judgement and interpretation to it - it is an interally brain-generated natural phenomenon. In truth, he has no proof of where it is coming from. Only that a brain stimulated in a certain way can perceive it. He has made one of the biggest no-no mistakes in science - putting his own spin on the facts, where there is no data to support his subjective opinion.

IMHO. Note that I labeled my opinion on the source (in the first paragraph) as just that - my opinion. Not tried to pass it off as scientific fact.

[JRuner]

JGBMartin, I am saddened to her about the doctrine your mother has been taught about epilepsy. As some one who keeps an open mind I have never seen any proof of Evil Spirits, Demons even a bad attitude causing seizures. I am a very Conservative Christan and believe evil is just evil. Epilepsy is just an illness and it is unfortunate that anyone has to experience it. We do not need all these skewed views of it. If you have a broken leg or cancer your not evil so how would any neurological disorder make you evil?

Aren't we all just people sick, healthy, Atheist, Christan, Hindu whatever we are just people trying to enjoy our lives and hopefully some level of health! People are so judgmental as a Conservative Christian I don't like the fact that my one of my relatives is gay but I still love my relative as much as I did before he told me and don't think he's evil nor do I preach to my relative about damnation. I am a sinner and a person who deals with seizures thats enough to deal with is it not? To me evil is intentionality harming or killing another not being ill physically or mentally. (This just my opinion but to me illness equaling evil is irrational).

John Runer

[dfwtexas]

Well, I have realized my mother is not the best mother, but because she is my mom, I just have to accept her for who she is. I understand what you are saying John, I too am conservative Christian but love my gay brother unconditionally. I couldn't understand why my mother didn't want to be educated about what is going on with me....I guess at least I have that answer. I know I am not, never have been, never will be a perfect person...I just wished my mother would open her mind to understand my condition and know it was not something casted upon me because of past sins. I could never do that to my children.

[Zoofemme]

Maybe we should all write to Dr. Phil or Oprah and ask them to do a show on adults with E? I realize that it doesn't pull at the heartstrings like a child with E does;please, no disrespect intended to those parents on here with children who have E, it is just as horrible for them but people just don't say "awww" about a burly rocker dude having t/ c's or an ordinary-looking housewife who leaves the fridge open and wanders out the front door unaware of what she is doing. We are the unnoticed masses I think when you look at the statistics. We are the ones who suffer the stigma the most...we lose jobs, driving privileges, friends, family, societal acceptance, self-acceptance to an extent even. The adults I see on here often struggle to adapt and may never fully do so even though we put up a good facade to the rest of the world. Other people don't "get" it...we look "normal" but really, we aren't. Our brains hiccup, reset, misfire, stutter, stumble, trip-up or whatever else you want to call it. We need a "world voice"..not just a local support group. SOmeone who reaches every household and wakes everyone up to good old silent E in ALL of its forms because the only time I hear about E on the TV is when someone wrecks their car after having a seizure while at the wheel.

[epileric]

I realize that it doesn't pull at the heartstrings like a child with E does;please, no disrespect intended to those parents on here with children who have E, it is just as horrible for them but people just don't say "awww" about a burly rocker dude having t/ c's or an ordinary-looking housewife who leaves the fridge open and wanders out the front door unaware of what she is doing. We are the unnoticed masses I think when you look at the statistics. We are the ones who suffer the stigma the most...we lose jobs, driving privileges, friends, family, societal acceptance, self-acceptance to an extent even. The adults I see on here often struggle to adapt and may never fully do so even though we put up a good facade to the rest of the world. Other people don't "get" it...we look "normal" but really, we aren't. Our brains hiccup, reset, misfire, stutter, stumble, trip-up or whatever else you want to call it.

Very Well Put!!!

[Cint]

Maybe we should all write to Dr. Phil or Oprah and ask them to do a show on adults with E?

I've written to both of them, but never heard from either, so maybe more need to write also.

[Zoofemme]

I've written to Dr. Phil too Cint and, like you ,have never received a reply back. I've racked my brain trying to figure out a way to market us, do bring us out of the dark ages...to go beyond the scopy of what the foundations and orgs have done but it always comes up flat and spouting the same old statistics

[Endless]

I've written to both of them, but never heard from either, so maybe more need to write also.

I agree.