Supreme Court ruling on medical marijuana

[lindy]

Once again, states rights have taken a blow from the Supreme Court. Although ten states now have medical marijuana laws on the books, the Supreme Court has ruled that the federal law outlawing pot takes precedence and, if you are smoking pot with your doctor's consent, you are subject to arrest. The Court said that, if the federal law changes, then the state laws will be allowed. I never did register with the state and am I ever glad that I didn't. One of my neighbors (who has MS) is registered and is terrified that the state list of those with permission to grow their own pot to smoke are going to be the first people the feds arrest. So we are legally able to take stronger, addictive, expensive prescription drugs which don't work for everyone and which cause horrendous side effects but pot is bad. Did it ever occur to these morons that all that this does is make the drug companies and drug dealers richer? I have always believed that pot should be legalized and taxed like cigarettes and alcohol. It would put the drug dealers out of business - make alot of money for the government - and save alot of tax money through the ridiculous prosecution of people who aren't hurting anybody. I know alot of people (including myself) who have been able to ward off an oncoming seizure with pot. I've known people who were dying of cancer and who were only able to deal with the side effects of chemo by smoking pot. My neighbor's pain is unbearable unless she smokes pot. Guess that we're all bad people and outlaws until Congress changes the law and that isn't going to happen while Bush is in the White House.

[Bernard]

There are a few members here who also claim relief from medical marijuana. Nothing will change on this issue until Congress gets involved.

I'm aware that there are groups lobbying for legalizing medical marijuana. I wonder if the EFA is one of them?

[lindy]

I don't know where the EFA stands on medicinal pot. I'm also not sure if every state that has a medical marijuana law includes epilepsy. I know that VT, NH and ME do and that the Canadian law also includes intractable epilepsy. It's funny - there has been a movement in Vermont for years to secede from the US. In fact, it's a part of the agreement when Vermont first joined the Union that they could leave any time that the state felt that it wasn't in it's best interests to be a part of the US. This is just going to add fuel to that fire - not so much because of the pot but because of the violation of states rights.

[Birdbomb]

Read this.
http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/Peterm.htm

His book "Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do" is very enlightening.

I believe because the Supreme Court rolls everything into a ball, it's difficult to assess the difference between fun and treatment with drugs. Even herion and opium have excellent uses.

For the past 30 some odd years I have suffered with osteoarthritis. I have taken every drug on the market. Opates worked the best for pain relief, and as much as I have taken, I never got high because they were doing a job on the pain, not my head. Even this past year when my hands were horrible appendages of shear pain and I was eating lortab and/or percacet like M&M's, it there wasn't that exhaulted high many recreational drug users seek.

The war on drugs is nothing more than a joke. Thank you Ronnie Reagan for ANOTHER fine mess. It ain't nobody's business if you do, UNLESS it effects another person's life in a detramental way. DUI's are a joke here in Vegas. We sell booze 24/7, casinos pass out free drinks to all players. Sit in a casino all night gambling and do you keep score of how many beers they give you? Hell no. But get in your car and run over a bus stop (a favorite of the drunks), well you get the picture.

[lindy]

I know exactly what you mean! When I lived in VA (in the 80s), the only good law that was passed was one that would legalize heroin for the use of terminally ill cancer patients the second that the feds allowed it (which will probably never happen even though heroin is the best pain killer in the world and won't make anyone high who is using it for extreme pain). I don't understand all of this "war on drugs" craziness. If you ask me, I could smoke pot and still be nowhere near as off balance as I was on Depakote or Mysoline or Dilantin or phenobarbital or - well, you get what I'm saying. But those are all "legal" drugs and put big bucks in the legal drug lords' pockets. Do you know why marijuana is illegal in the first place? It was legal under the END of Prohibition and, when the alcohol companies found how much of their newly re-legalized business had been taken over by pot, they lobbied to outlaw the "evil" weed. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that's the main reason why pot is still illegal for recreational use and is now being forced underground (again) for medicinal use. The alcohol and pharmaceutical lobbies are too powerful for sensible laws to be allowed.

[Bernard]

...

Organizing a study of the health benefits of an illegal drug is a challenge, said John Benson, the other principal author of the institute's report, which called for more research into marijuana's possible medical benefits. The American Medical Association in 2001 issued a statement backing that call.

Marijuana's potential benefits are limited by the harm caused by smoking, which can increase the risk of cancer, damage the lungs and cause pregnancy complications, such as low birth weight, according to the report.

...

Scientists have studied marijuana's effects on several ailments:

...

• Epilepsy and multiple sclerosis. There is "limited scientific evidence" that marijuana produces any measurable medical benefits, according to an article last year in Neurology.

...

The drug remains popular with some patients, however. In two Canadian studies also published in Neurology, one found that 36 percent of 220 MS patients used marijuana, while another article found that that 21 percent of 160 epilepsy patients reported using marijuana in the past year. Of those epilepsy patients, 68 percent say the drug made seizures less severe and 54 percent said seizures were less frequent.

Scientists don't put much faith in reports from patients unless a drug's effects can be measured by a doctor, Benson said. Patients may feel better not because of marijuana, but because of the "placebo effect," in which ineffective drugs appear to produce results.

Pot's potential tough to gauge

Does anyone honestly believe that >50% results could be attributed to a placebo effect?

[lindy]

I just love the old excuse "we couldn't find any proof - just anecdotes". Just makes me crazy. I do believe that smoking pot does damage the lungs - how could it not? - but I think that there are cases where it does far more good than harm. A caveat though - commerical pot is bad news. Even the Canadian government is growing their own in caves (I can't imagine the electric bill) to make sure that the people who qualify under their medical pot law have access to decent, uncontaminated marijuana. Won't do you any good if what you're smoking has been rinsed in emblaming fluid. The Canadian law also allows a person to grow his/her own - or to designate someone as that person's grower - in the effort to make sure that there are no contaminants. The Vermont law allows for a person to have three mature plants, although there is an effort to push the limit up to seven which was the amount in the original bill.

[Bernard]

I just love the old excuse "we couldn't find any proof - just anecdotes". Just makes me crazy.

This is the same rationale that prevents greater awareness of neurofeedback even though clinical studies have yielded an 80% success rate.

[lindy]

It seems to be that way with most "alternative" therapies. If it isn't chemical, "conventional" medicine just doesn't want to know about it. About 14 years ago, I broke my arm in four places and spent three months in a cast. When the cast came off, I asked the ortho about PT and he told me that the muscle atrophy was so bad that there was no point in PT - that my arm would never turn again. Well, nobody tells me what I can or cannot do and not turning my arm was not acceptable. So I talked to my massage therapist about it and she sent me to an accupuncturist. My arm may be a little crooked but it sure turns perfectly well. The ortho couldn't believe it - said that it just wasn't possible. That's why it's so important for us to learn as much as possible so that we can get the best possible care. Counting on a doctor in today's world is ridiculous!

[Bernard]

Looks like 3 independent teams of researchers have found the proof:

In an in vitro study, a multi-center Japanese team led by Atsushi Soya focused on the supraoptic nucleus (SON) where vasopressin and oxytocin are synthesized. They found that a synthesized cannbinoid (CP55,940) inhibited both excitatory and inhibitory synaptic transmission and that a balanced input can produce sustained changes in neuronal activity without damage to neuronal homeostasis.

"Our next step is to investigate cannabinoids' effects in various stress conditions," Soya said. "Endocannabinoids may have possible involvement in stress-induced responses such as the changes of autonomic, endocrine and immune function."

Furthermore, Soya added, "cannabinoids are relevant to potential relief in such disease situations in the brain as multiple sclerosis and epilepsy, or feeding disorders. In these, their effects are similar to marijuana, except for the possible dangers of accidentally using the natural products at higher dosages."

Endocannabinoids – the brain's cannabis – demonstrate novel modes of action to stress

[stilldancing_98]

I finally tried pot a few months ago. My head stopped hurting. This was from 2 hits. My memory was much more vivid. And my vocabulary was much better. Sound silly? When I tell people this they say. "you just think that" lol but my Dr. knows and the conversations I had were with PHDs. It was great!I don't smoke and I don't do pot on a regular basis.

[skillefer]

I live in a state that allows medical marijuana. The only thing is, if I use, I could lose my job. So I don't even try it. If a student were to see me walking in to the medical marijuana distribution center, they could basically blackmail me. So until marijuana is legalized at the federal level, I can't even try it. I don't even discuss it with my neurologist. He's a nice man, but very much by the books at times. The only vitamins he said I should take were a daily multi-vitamin and folic acid. This, when newer research shows that people taking phenobarbital for extended periods of time tend to have a B-12 deficiency that folic acid can mask.

[RobinN]

I finally tried pot a few months ago. My head stopped hurting. This was from 2 hits. My memory was much more vivid. And my vocabulary was much better. Sound silly? When I tell people this they say. "you just think that" lol but my Dr. knows and the conversations I had were with PHDs. It was great!I don't smoke and I don't do pot on a regular basis.

If it works for you, can't be much worse than what the pharmacist hands over.

[RobinN]

The only vitamins he said I should take were a daily multi-vitamin and folic acid. This, when newer research shows that people taking phenobarbital for extended periods of time tend to have a B-12 deficiency that folic acid can mask.

I don't rely on my doctors knowing the latest information, I do my own research and then give them intelligent reasons as to why I am giving my daughter a specific vitamin or mineral. My neurologist saw my list, with the amounts, and nodded her head on each one, and then stopped (a year ago) when she saw the amount of magnesium I was giving Rebecca, She said that is quite a lot. I told her why I was doing it. Recently she recommended that I go back to that amount.

I think when you keep notes of when, why, and how.. they are encouraged to play ball. When they know you will be an easy target, they hold on to the ball and offer you the standard pat on the back.

This is what I have come to recognize

[skillefer]

I don't rely on my doctors knowing the latest information, I do my own research and then give them intelligent reasons as to why I am giving my daughter a specific vitamin or mineral. My neurologist saw my list, with the amounts, and nodded her head on each one, and then stopped (a year ago) when she saw the amount of magnesium I was giving Rebecca, She said that is quite a lot. I told her why I was doing it. Recently she recommended that I go back to that amount.

I think when you keep notes of when, why, and how.. they are encouraged to play ball. When they know you will be an easy target, they hold on to the ball and offer you the standard pat on the back.

This is what I have come to recognize

True. I realize that doctors are very busy people, and that it's impossible to read every bit of the latest research. I just wish I could go into a doctor's office and have them suggest alternative treatments or at least ask if I had tried them. That would be refreshing.

[RobinN]

Wouldn't it though.
There are doctors that do... but they do not have their hands tied by insurance companies.
They have opted out.

[RobinN]

If it works for you, can't be much worse than what the pharmacist hands over.

Even though I for the most part stand by this comment.....
I would like to add, I would not offer this choice to my family. I think it is far too easy to get lost in the use, especially since it would be prescribed. Drugs are drugs, and this one is illegal for a very good reason. Easy to abuse it.

However, given certain circumstances and in the hands of a very responsible adult, who am I to take that item out of their hands of someone chronically ill.

I would love to see a health care system that is based on the doctor getting paid when the patient is well. He doesn't receive a dime if the patient is sick. I do believe that the doctors would practice a totally different form of medicine if that were the case.

[LynnW]

I would love to see a health care system that is based on the doctor getting paid when the patient is well. He doesn't receive a dime if the patient is sick. I do believe that the doctors would practice a totally different form of medicine if that were the case.

Hah! Interesting concept: Doctors' pay based on successful performance of duties. Kinda like the lawyers who don't collect a fee unless they win your case. Or like the CEO whose bonus is based on his company's performance. I doubt I will see it in my lifetime.

[BuckeyeFan]

My Mom's cancer surgeon told me that he is not paid by the number of operations or other procedures he does. Thus, he is not driven to perform as many surgeries as possible or the most expensive option.

I guess this may be because of the research branch of the hospital. Most of the doctors do both medical care and research. Maybe that reduces the profit drive from the patient/doctor relationship.

Don't get me wrong. The hospital bills are unbelievable. But at the individual doctor level, maybe this is better.

[stilldancing_98]

I can get it prescribed.I would not give it to my son he is not as serious as me by far. But everything is in moderation. I have seen people just use it for the sake of getting high and watched them ruin there lives because it usually leads to something else. But so could my Lorazepam . I was on very strong meds 2mlg pills of Lorazepam when I had cancer . I don't hide it from anybody in my family.Or my doctors. I studied why they made a lot of these drugs illegal. Its what caused the black market.