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#21
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Overall , doctors feel that given a choice between anti-epileptic drugs and status epilepticus , they choose anti-epileptic drugs. It is not an easy choice but better given the options. Of course , everyone is different and responds differently to anti-epileptic drug therapy , and there are chances of problems in pregnancies even with anti-epileptic drugs , and sometimes because of them.The risks of seizures in pregnancy are not "overblown" in my opinion , because not taking measures to remove a preventable risk of anything more than 1% would be unacceptable to me if it was my baby.
__________________ Dr. Arvind Ramaswamy Last edited by drarvindr; 12-04-2008 at 02:27 AM. |
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#22
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... I did some searching and found this study which describes a single case study showing a change in fetal heart rate during a complex partial seizure. The study has some footnotes, one of which is Management issues for women with epilepsy : A review of the literature (emphasis mine): Quote :
__________________ Check out this chart of alternative epilepsy treatments and this page on EEG Neurofeedback. Would you like to help support this forum? We recently had a bunch of new neurofeedback practitioners agree to offer CWE members discounts for service. See post #12 for the list of all participating practitioners. |
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#23
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| Find a study that says women with status epilepticus in pregnancy had a better outcome without drugs , and i'll concede the point. Untill then , i still feel anti-epileptic drugs are better. "Adverse outcome" does not just mean for the fetus (malformations) , but for the mother as well , including complications faced during labor , cesareans , etc. From your study : Quote :
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Malformations will always be more common with drugs , i agree with what you've said. Dead babies/ small and weak babies are more common if they don't get oxygen , which could likely happen in a state of status. Everyone knows that valproate and CMZ cause neural tube defects and should not be used in the first trimester.The neural tube is formed in the first month of pregnancy , when many women don't even know they are pregnant and keep taking these drugs unknowingly, which increases the likelihood of malformations due to these drugs and it is therefore not really proving anything, in my opinion to judge the outcome of changing managements in pregnancy unless everyone in the sample is a pre-planned pregnancy and they have been taking superdoses of folic acid before conception (shoddy science strikes again!). Ideally WWE should be told all of this by their neuros (which was my point to begin with - sue the doctors who neglected to mention all of this) and take these precautions when they are trying to conceive.I realise that this may sound offensive or patronising , but this is the only recourse since ALL anti-epileptic drugs cause some malformation or other at some point in the pregnancy. Once the neural tube is formed (or deformed , as the case may be) , there is nothing you can do to reverse the process in utero, which is why valproate can be given after the first trimester.My point is , given that people who suddenly stop their meds tend to go into status epilepticus ( i am (fortunately)living proof) , it is still a better deal to take meds (albeit with a reduced dosage) during pregnancy. Given that there is a 10-15% risk of mortality (and this is assuming you are young (figures are higher with increasing age)and not pregnant (the risk of getting seizures increases with pregnancy) for the mother and by extension ,a bit more for the fetus from status epilepticus , and also considering that the treatment of status involves pumping you full of anti-epileptic drugs which could harm the baby, isn't it better to have a smaller dosage of your drugs and avoid dire consequences ? P.S. Bernard you really need to look into new spell check software. everything that i write in British spellings is underlined in red. i don't usually uze American spellingz (
__________________ Dr. Arvind Ramaswamy Last edited by drarvindr; 12-05-2008 at 05:23 AM. |
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#24
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| Thanks doc. It's an issue that I had not explored previously. I appreciate your comments. Food for thought for sure.
![]() You might be the only one using it.
__________________ Check out this chart of alternative epilepsy treatments and this page on EEG Neurofeedback. Would you like to help support this forum? We recently had a bunch of new neurofeedback practitioners agree to offer CWE members discounts for service. See post #12 for the list of all participating practitioners. |
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#25
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Spoken like a true neurologist!! One who has too much malpractice insurance, too many patients, too much money, and no warm human emotions!!! "Everyone" does NOT know Valproate causes neural tube defects. Unfortunately there are far too many uninformed women going to their neurologists, and general practitioner for meds. These woman hang off every word that comes out of those doctors mouthes. "He's my doctor-why wouldn't he tell me something I needed to know". I've heard it far too many times-its sickening. If they are anywhere in the child-bearing age, their dr should step up and give them this information, not assume they know. You are reiterating pharma. inserts. "if the benefit outweighs the risk". FYI: Depakote can also cause defects at the end of the second term, during the increased, organ, brain, and body growth. Due to the way the UK system is set up, there is no recourse against the dr.'s. This info is from speaking with Body. After 11 years of living, and researching, Depakote and its' in utero effects and working on such studies, it can do a lot of damage. Fetal Valproate Syndrome is a difficult and challenging condition for a child to live with. |
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#26
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depakote/autism link SKILLEFER
Sounds as though your neurologist has given up interest in his profession, which is sad. Living with seizures myself, and a child with Fetal Valproate Syndrome (affected with Autism and a plethora of other conditions), it appears this kind of thinking from some in the general public, dr's, the FDA and pharmaceutical companies, is what has led to the problems resulting from Depakote. ABBOTT spent the minimum amount on studies for FDA approval not for safety and toxicology. Their recourse for any human malformations is simple, "studies were not conducted on humans". And that my friend, sad though it makes me, comes straight from someone I spoke with at the FDA. What is this world coming to? |
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#27
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| I actually see it as very responsible. I was often told that I can't live without meds & that I had no choice but to live with side-effects. I see acknowledging the fact that they all have side-effects to be more honest & gives the client the choice.
__________________ "It's no longer a question of staying healthy. It's a question of finding a sickness you like." -Jackie Mason |
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#28
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| OK , Aodan , i havent replied thus far because i really don't get what you're accusing me of. 1) Let me reiterate (that means i say again, implying that this is what i meant) : I believe that it is the neurologists ' job to tell their patients that taking valproate may cause malformations. 2) by everyone , i implied everyone with a degree in medicine. not EVERYONE everyone. pardon the grammar . 3) You seem to have taken me out of context and the "quote " makes no sense. 4) I hope i spoke like a true neurologist. you flatter me 5) sorry if i seem to be sniping but i've had a rough week changing upto 20 dressings a day and handling preops. its been hell :eyeroll:.
__________________ Dr. Arvind Ramaswamy |
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#29
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| In line with our discussion here: Originally Posted by Reuters :
__________________ Check out this chart of alternative epilepsy treatments and this page on EEG Neurofeedback. Would you like to help support this forum? We recently had a bunch of new neurofeedback practitioners agree to offer CWE members discounts for service. See post #12 for the list of all participating practitioners. |
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#30
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| As most of you know, I lost a baby at the end of last year. I AM on medication (gabapentin), but it has never fully controlled my seizures. I do not have tonic clonic seizures, I have atonic seizures and complex partial seizures. When I was 19 weeks pregnant, I had the longest complex partial seizure I have had before or since, and afterwards I didn't feel the baby move. It IS possible (in rare cases as I keep getting told) to lose a baby through a non-convulsive seizure. There were no congenital malformations in my son, it was deemed that it was lack of oxygen to him that did it. I had done everything I was meant to, being on an anti-epileptic drug with less risks, taking huge doses of folic acid before I conceived, but it still didn't work for me. When I have my seizures under better control, We will be trying for another baby, but until then, the risks are just too great, I couldn't go through that again. Just wanted to make the point that it is not only people who have tonic clonic seizures that this issue can affect. And I wasn't told about the folic acid by the GP or neurologist, it was through my own research and conversations with the volunteer from my local Epilepsy Action group. I am now permanently on high dose folic acid just in case my contraception fails (it has before!) |
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#31
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Risk of Neural Tube Birth Defects following prenatal exposure to Valproate Thanks for the sobering lesson Loudmouth. Condolences (again?). Here in the USA, the FDA issued a reminder warning about Depakote (sodium valproate): Quote :
__________________ Check out this chart of alternative epilepsy treatments and this page on EEG Neurofeedback. Would you like to help support this forum? We recently had a bunch of new neurofeedback practitioners agree to offer CWE members discounts for service. See post #12 for the list of all participating practitioners. |
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#32
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| I saw from a commercial on TV from a law firm that their is a class action lawsuit over it in the US. I was pregnant with my last child in 1979. I was on Depakote. After I proudly told my neurologist that I was expecting, he told me to get an abortion. He told me that I was not to get pregnant on Depakote. He knew I was still of child bearing years and he did not tell me about it when I was first on it. I told him that I was not going to kill my baby. Abortion is murder. He has a birth defect from that time, that I cannot get the records. I have no idea where the neurologist is, that was 30 years ago. I do not know if I have a lawsuit. I am going to go ask that lawsuit class action lawer anyway. My proof, Bernard, is that my neurologist told me that it could cause birth defects and that they were serious enough that he recommened that I have an abortion. |
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#33
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| I will be sure to warn any ladies that I and my wife know about this drug. My birth defects are from a drug related to thalidomide but all I know is it starts with the letter "G". They really need to be cautious giving a pregnant woman any drugs period! John |
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#34
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| I have had two bouts of status epilepticus in my life. Having seizures during pregnancy, could kill a baby. A lot of us have had some hard falls during our tonic clonics. I would rather be on medications and take my chances. Either way, we are taking chances when we have babies/w/epilepsy. What about birth defects if it is the father who has epilepsy? The medicine he is on can cause birth defects, too. Thank you drarvindr for this important information that we all can use. I appreciate your knowledge. we need it here. How long before you become a neurologist? |
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#35
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I can't find anything on the internet about a class action suit here in the USA, mostly law firms wanting to represent individual cases.
__________________ Check out this chart of alternative epilepsy treatments and this page on EEG Neurofeedback. Would you like to help support this forum? We recently had a bunch of new neurofeedback practitioners agree to offer CWE members discounts for service. See post #12 for the list of all participating practitioners. |
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#36
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![]() CWE's newest sponsor is recruiting candidates for depakote lawsuits over birth defects here in the USA. They are pushing for a class action lawsuit.
__________________ Check out this chart of alternative epilepsy treatments and this page on EEG Neurofeedback. Would you like to help support this forum? We recently had a bunch of new neurofeedback practitioners agree to offer CWE members discounts for service. See post #12 for the list of all participating practitioners. |
| Tags |
| autism, birth defects, depakote, epilim, pregnancy, sodium valproate |
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