what do you guys think about there being an "epileptic personality"??

[ktbuttons]

after reading some articles about what some doctors call the "epileptic personality" it just made me wonder. do you guys agree or disagree with this?!
i'm not allowed to post links since i'm new so i'll just copy & paste some stuff that i found interesting in this article..

"Through the 20th century, many writings in the field of psychiatry referred to "the epileptic personality," an interictal syndrome thought to include explosive impulsivity, affective viscosity (the tendency to prolong interactions with others), and egocentricity (overriding concern with the self). Some thought that this syndrome was the result of underlying neurologic factors, but others felt that these personality traits represented a distinct form of epilepsy in themselves. At the time, it was felt that intensive psychoanalytic therapy was the most appropriate treatment for this condition.

More recently, Dr. Norman Geschwind introduced the characteristics of the "interictal personality disorder" to the neurological community. He felt that a number of specific personality characteristics were frequently seen in patients with temporal lobe epilepsy and that they were characteristic of such patients. These traits included deepened emotions, circumstantial thought (overly detailed, with delay in getting to the point), increasing concern with philosophical or religious beliefs, and a change in sexual behavior. Dr. Geschwind and a colleague published these observations in a major journal in 1975.(1)

Bear and Fedio(2) extended Geschwind's observations to include a total of 18 behavioral features:

Emotionality

Mania

Depression

Guilt

Humorlessness

Altered sexual interest

Aggression

Anger and hostility

Hypergraphia (excessive writing)

Religiosity

Philosophical interest

Sense of personal destiny

Hypermoralism

Dependency

Paranoia

Obsessionalism

Circumstantiality

Viscosity"

it seems a bit ridiculous to generalize such a large group of people..
but personally, i have MANY of those personality traits they talked about. i mean, it could totally just be a coincidence that i do, but most of them didn't start showing up until AFTER the seizures really started. just makes me think. do you guys notice these traits in yourself or others you know with epilepsy? or do you just find these to be common personality traits.. just a coincidence?
i thought it'd be cool to hear everyone's thoughts on the topic!

-katie

[Rae1889]

I disagree.
for one thing, its alot of negative unbalanced emotions that they say all people with epilepsy have. I for one, do not have alot of them, but I do identify with some.

Another thing, its the power of suggestion. and that lots of people believe what is "factually" presented to them as "OMG I have that". I can look up any disorder or disease or condition and can point out all the symptoms that I have and that most of them would be normal. and its just called life. its like a wave. dips and spikes. no appetite one day, a big one the next. life isnt a steady plateau for anyone despite how much the professional medical world says it should be. it has to be balanced ups and downs. not steady either way. and I'd like to think that I am pretty balanced.

The movie "The Number 23" made alot of people think about it, and they found the number 23 in alot of places. or someone discovered their number was 45, or 78 or 53. You see what you want to see because your looking to hard into it. if you look at other things, they point out what it isnt. I think that should be a key in diagnosing someone. What they dont have as opposed to what they do.

[ktbuttons]

definitely see your point!!
personally i noticed all these weird emotions & such and that's one of the reason why i wanted so badly to figure out what was going on, because i could see how they came along with my seizures. i just found this article & thought it was real weird how some doctors noticed the same traits in a lot of their patients!
but yes, i do see how it is a pretty far-fetched idea. probably just a coincidence, but it's interesting i think

[Zoofemme]

You also have to consider that the article you are looking at was posted in 1975...understanding of E has evolved to an extent since then Like Rae said...if your looking for something, you will find it, I think that is particularly true of some medical professionals and/or scientists...otherwise, how would they get their funding, lol.

[ktbuttons]

lol yeah, plus there isn't much evidence that supports it anyways as i read more articles on the topic! it's cool to hear your opinions..
guess i was just kiiiiinda hoping maybe there was some explanation for my weird personality & that i wasn't alone haha! but it's starting to look like i am just a bit weird.. ehh oh well

[Rae1889]

I think the only explaination for someones "regular" personality is adaptation. Survival of the fittest. you adapt your body *learning to deal with hot/cold weather* you learn to adapt your mannerisms in a new cultural setting, you learn to adapt to new abilitys/disabilitys *learning to use a wheel chair* and so you would learn to adapt your personality to what is pertinient around you.

If you picture yourself in a third world country, do you think your personality would be the same? *having never lived anywhere else*

[Nakamova]

It is the case that certain kinds of epilepsy, esp. those involving damage to the hippocampus can POTENTIALLY influence "personality" in some of the ways mentioned in the article. But I doubt there's any real data to support an epileptic personality -- as mentioned above the range of people with seizure disorders is enormous, since over 1% of the population is affected.

[nightfighter]

Hi everyone,

I think there is simply way to many variables to make a general statement,especially considering each person has such different ailments
for different reasons.In order to accurately group behaviors,backgrounds
need to be extremely similar,on top of a much more detailed study.

I suspect alot of these tests are just ratio multiplication with an exceptionally
low number of people as with most study's and statistics.

On the other hand it does make perfectly logical sense in theory to suggest
that a group of people with the same type of E could suffer from similar
personality 'problems'.(or victims of influenced personality as I prefer.)

For instance a needle pressing on a certain part of the brain can make an arm raise.Lets take for example a group of people with temporal lobe epilepsy.If the same parts of brain is being touched or pressure being put on same part,the personalitys
will probably experience the same type of behavior alteration.

This is to say, its not the actual personality but temporary alterations due to pressure.

[PhylisFeinerJohnson]

On a lighter note: this could have been fun as a poll...

Emotionality -- (Sob) Why do you say that?
Mania -- You BET!
Depression -- Isn't EVERYONE?
Guilt -- NEVER
Humorlessness -- I take that as an insult.
Altered sexual interest -- Hmmmm. Where were they going with this one?
Aggression -- Assertive, yes. Aggressive, no.
Anger and hostility -- Peace, man. Joy to the world.
Hypergraphia (excessive writing) Well, I am a professional writer, does that count?
Religiosity -- Nope, not me. But I married a guy from 3 generations of Presbyterian ministers....
Philosophical interest -- I minored in Philosophy in college.
Sense of personal destiny -- You are what you make of yourself.
Hypermoralism -- I was a slut in college!
Dependency -- How about co-dependency?
Paranoia -- Not a chance.
Obsessionalism -- I used to be when I was younger. Now I've mellowed out.
Circumstantiality -- Next we'll be quoting existentialism!
Viscosity -- How pompous! I go with the flow!

So there. (LOL!)

[genius]

Hey everyone I am new to the site and just want to get my feet wet with a little posting. In regard to the subject I believe most people epileptic or not could fit themselves in any of the listed personality traits.

[ktbuttons]

all of your comments made me think and/or laugh (phylis..hehe)
...... all so true!!!
i love hearing everyone's thoughts on this
ahh, isn't the human brain/mind so interesting! ?

(i try to use the dancing banana as much as possible, lol)

oh & hi genius!! i am fairly new here as well

[PhylisFeinerJohnson]

Well Kt, you sure know how to get a lot of response!

[Zoofemme]

I decided to have fun too...lol

Emotionality -- But-but-but.....
Mania -- Depends on the day of the week, month, year, moon cycle, solar flares and ionic disturbances
Depression -- I swear...its the meds
Guilt -- Nope, I own my decisions
Humorlessness -- 3 blondes walk into a bar, the redhead ducks and steps over them
Altered sexual interest -- Further clarification is required
Aggression -- No...Alpha Female
Anger and hostility -- Only if I'm having a bad day
Hypergraphia (excessive writing) Only applicable in a job situation
Religiosity -- Too funny...not even close
Philosophical interest -- Its all a matter of perspective
Sense of personal destiny -- I AM
Hypermoralism -- I'll cop to this one in some areas...
Dependency -- Just the opposite
Paranoia -- See number 2 above
Obsessionalism -- Yes, it is the "fixer" in me
Circumstantiality -- Nope...instructor, lecturer, presentations...don't think it would work, lol.
Viscosity -- I go with the flow in most situations but have been known to dig my heels in a time or two. My question is...does stubborness fall under this, lol?

[Chris515]

Yeah I don't agree that people with epilepsy would have all of these traits. Anybody could relate to some of these traits, whether they have epilepsy or not. The power of suggestion is so strong, it's true.. one time i was feeling sick, and I looked up my symptoms on a web md site. It came up with so many conditions and disorders that I could have.. and it's easy to believe that you have those conditions.

I think the only explaination for someones "regular" personality is adaptation. Survival of the fittest. you adapt your body *learning to deal with hot/cold weather* you learn to adapt your mannerisms in a new cultural setting, you learn to adapt to new abilitys/disabilitys *learning to use a wheel chair* and so you would learn to adapt your personality to what is pertinient around you.

If you picture yourself in a third world country, do you think your personality would be the same? *having never lived anywhere else*

Good points Rae. In a different situation in life, I believe our personalities would be different. I think our core instincts and values may stay the same, but so much else is dependent on what is around us, where we are, culture, wealth, etc.

[carlos.fonke]

Yes, there's a bit of medical student's disease going on here, i.e. the power of suggestion. Or that all the traits are simply very subjective.

Ever read your horoscope? A joke I love to play on someone who believes in astrology is to read them their horoscope when in fact I'm reading them someone else's.

[PhylisFeinerJohnson]

Zoofemme, YOU GO GIRL!!!! :-)

[Zoofemme]

Lol!!!

[Bernard]

Having spent several years following various E forums, I do believe that there are some common traits exhibited by small subsets of the epilepsy patient population that I don't usually see in non-E forums. I believe it is likely more a reflection of circumstances or med side effects than an innate "epileptic personality" though.

[Aicila]

My question:

How many non-epileptic patients did Dr. Geshwind have to compare to? One thing I learned in my statistics class is you can make statistics say ANYTHING you want...

Anyway, since I have 2 more hours with nothing to do:

Emotionality-Sometimes?
Mania-She's a maniac, maniac on the floor!
Depression-
Guilt-Only once when I punched someone in the face for no reason. (I was 7)
Humorlessness-What do you call a cow with two legs? Lean Beef
Altered sexual interest-Is this my sexual interest compared to 'normal' sexual interest? What is normal sexual interest? My answer: 7
Aggression-
Anger and hostility- Dumb people make me angry, but I tend to hide it pretty well
Hypergraphia (excessive writing)-Sooo, if a neurologist tells you to keep a journal of your daily activities and you constantly write about them all day, how can that be a trait if you are doing what you are told? But yes, I do write a lot. I like my handwriting.
Religiosity-not so much
Philosophical interest- Only in my high school days when certain state of mind altering agents were being used
Sense of personal destiny- Umm, what?
Hypermoralism- not so much too
Dependency- Only when I don't feel good
Paranoia- Why, what did you hear?
Obsessionalism- Extreme
Circumstantiality- Not until recently, but I've always been pretty detail oriented
Viscosity- Pretty laid back, but extreme stubborness has been known to set in when dealing with my husband or people that are dumb.

[tripletdad]

Maybe shakespeare was a hypergraphiac epileptic.