Seizure patients can't get CDLs??????!!!!!!!

[jamie0168]

I can't believe this. I'm minutes away from getting one of the best jobs in the city, and they tell me that they can't pass my physical because I'm being treated for epilepsy???!!! Even though I haven't had a seizure in years and NEVER during the daytime???!!!! WTF!!!!
I've never been turned away from a job because of my disorder. This is the first time that I've ever felt ripped off because of epilepsy. I just can't believe this.
Everyone says it's for the safety of passengers and other drivers, well I say HOGWASH! If a disorder is under control, they should have no right to immediately turn away an epilepsy patient. Geez, at least investigate the medical history first. They are bus and truck drivers who are more likely to have a heart attack on the job than my having a seizure!!!
Can ANYONE comprehend? Has anyone ever suffered from this humiliation and wanted to fight back?!!! Anyone!!!

[RobinN]

Find a lawyer willing to look at the American Disabilites Act for you.

[Crystal11]

I am sorry you are having trouble with the job situation. I know while working and interning at a rehab center for the blind, they talked to me about my seizures and I did have seizure while working with a client- mine are hard to tell when you're totally blind- but the teacher could see it. Anyways- I think it depends on what kinds of jobs it is weather or not you can be denied a job. Employers can deny you a job based off of your medical history depending on that job. Its considered a risk for them. Now if you apply, interview or whatever and you get them job, they can't fire you because of your job- accomodations would have to be made. In the case of epilepsy there are probably alot of laws and things to consider.
What is the job you were wanting to do?

I hope things get better soon-
Talk to a disabity services lawyer or an advocate about this and see what can be done. I wish the best for you.
-Crystal

[jamie0168]

It's a commercial drivers license. I just want to drive a university bus. Okay, yeah, I understand..that can be dangerous IF you are having seizures uncontrollably. But this just in...there are plenty of epileptics driving normal cars! There are many more accidents invlving normal cars every year than buses or trucks. It's a rule of the department of transportation. Anyone under treatment or who has been diagnosed with seizures may not obtain a commercial drivers license. They must be treatment and seizure-free for an entire decade before they'll be considered. There are alot of unfair rules in this country and I think this is one of them. I can't believe that nobody has tried to fight this before.

[Meetz1064]

is that in Indiana, you may not ever have a seizure and be a bus driver. If you do, you immediately give up that job.

[Jfpinell]

Look up 49 CFR 391.41 in the Code of Federal Regulations. That gives the medical qualifications for obtaining a CDL.This gets into a VERY long and complicated situation (I've already been through it!). The current law allows for someone who can't pass a D.O.T. physical under 49 CFR 391 to obtain a restricted CDL for operation within a political subdivision. Which, to put it short, means something along the line of a snowplow operator, city bus drivers, etc. Before 1994 (if I recall the year right), a person could be "grandfathered" if they already had an old cheuffer (spelling?) license, which is what everyone had before the CDL was implimented in the early '90's. During that time, a person such as yourself could apply for a medical review by the D.O.T. for operation in INTRAstate commerce (as opposed to INTERstate commerce). Meaning simply, you could drive anything within state lines, but not "over the road". This got everything messed up even more than before because with the way that was written, you could drive a bus, with how many people's lives in your hands, but you couldn't haul a load of paper (or whatever) even directly across your State line! (Go figure the logic!) *shakes head*
Now the way the law is written, the only CDL jobs you could do are those that are exempt through a political subdivision (town, county). Or (here's another strange one!)...firemen do not need a CDL to drive fire trucks! However, the local town board may itself require more stringent qualifications on it's own for any of its employees.
This gets into WAY more detail than I have room for here. My best suggestion is for you to get in touch with your Federal Senator and Representative, and the Federal Highway Administration for clarification on this, and suggest that a Bill be introduced to change this.

[Jfpinell]

By the way...the A.D.A has stipulations in it which can preclude it from being used to argue cases of discrimmination when issues of public safety are at stake. This is something that would ultimately have to be decided in a court of law on a constitutionality basis. Seeing how driving in the U.S. is a privledge, not a right, there's no way you could win it from that angle. But there may be other routes. This could be a long process though. Get in touch with the Epilepsy Foundation and see if they can give you any advice.

[Jfpinell]

After pondering this over a few days, I may have hit on something else for you...it's a long shot, but better than nothing at this point:

I'm not exactly sure which type of lawyers handle Constitutional cases, if any, or how exactly cases involving such things are heard -that's something you'd have to ask a lawyer. However, the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states that: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

To put it short, this means that, unless something is specifically guaranteed to the people in the U.S. by the Constitution or Bill of Rights (such as voting), or is specifically prohibitied by 1 of its Amendments (such as the 18th dealing with Prohibition of alcohol on a national level), the individual States, and the local cities, counties, etc. have the right to decide what they want. In short, a higher level of government cannot pass a law more restrictive than a lower level -unless it is specifically guaranteed by the Bill of Rights -such as voting age, etc. This is precisely the reason that when the (Federal) Brady Bill, for example, was passed requiring a 5 day waiting period for the purchase of a handgun, the law HAD TO contain a provision to exempt States that already had their own waiting period -even if it was shorter. (Wisconsin, for example, has a 2 day period, and the Federal government couldn't require it to increase its time period.)

What I'm saying is that because there is nothing in the Constitution related to the Federal Government having control over driving and licensing (which is why each State can set its own minimum driving age), it could PERHAPS be argued that because Congress and the Federal Highway Administration created and implimented the entire Commercial Drivers License regulations, thereby forcing States to become more restrictive with their licensing practices, they over-stepped their line of authority by doing so, and that this would be a violation of the 10th Amendment. (The same thing could be argued about when the Federal Government passed a law requiring all States to raise their drinking age to 21, or lose their highway funding...there's nothing in the Constitution giving them the authority over alcohol consumption -at least not since the 21rst Amendment was passed repealing the 18th.)

Again, it's a long shot, but actually I've been thinking about this angle for quite sometime! Now the question is where to go with it or how to start. That's why I suggest getting in touch with your Federal Senators/Representatives, and explaining your concerns to them if this job really means that much to you.

[Grazianina]

I can imagine what you are going through with this. I have always viewed my ability to drive as one of the few things that made me "normal". I even own a dirt track race car. My seizures were under complete medical control.....nothing for 9 years. Even though I am Grand Mal Epileptic I drove my P/U truck proudly and safely and never took chances. I carry Ativan "just in case" I might feel an aura. So I was always thinking of others. But one day I had a wreck that almost killed me. I remember getting in the car and just barely pulling out of the driveway down the road. After that, nothing but EMT's, Firefighters and the Life Flight Crew that came. I miraculously drove across 4 lanes of highway traffic without hitting a single car, but hit the train tracks and tore up 175ft of track. I shattered my left leg and collarbone and underwent 5 surgeries and spent 3 weeks in the hospital. I now walk like a 60 year old woman at the ripe old age of 37 due to pins and screws. I can never run again or dance......something I love dearly. But, I am alive and my teenage daughters have their mother. My husband is a long-haul truck driver and was on the phone with me when the accident occurred. He nearly flipped his load trying to get to me. I applaud you for trying to do a job that our family understands first-hand is so desperately needed and critical to our economy. But I also know what he goes through mentally and physically driving. So many aspects of his job are key seizure triggers: road rage, repetitiveness of the lines on the roadway, smells, long hours, and more. All of this at the helm of 80,000 lbs. When I think of what I could have done to someone else with my truck, or knowing that one of my children could have been in my car with me, it has made me re-evaluate whether my sense of freedom or their right to life is more important. If the transportation industry is what you love....look into dispatching or something similar.

[Jfpinell]

Points well taken, but the interesting thing is, firemen, ambulance drivers, even police, are allowed to drive those vehicles, and at speeds of 70, 80, or 90 mph or more- such as high speed chases, I'd say that is just as dangerous, if not more so, than truck driving. My police instructors know of my condition and still, while a bit concerned, have not -even cannot by law and the ADA, flat out tell me "no" to the firearms course or the Emergency Vehicle Operation Course (both required for Department Of Justice for law enforcement certification. I've also gone through Firefighter I certification, and they made nothing of me performing all required tasks for certification. (In fact, I was 1 of the top students in performance in Firefighter I!)

There are many more accidents related to alcohol and even things like heart attacks on the road than seizures! ...Maybe they should forbid overweight people or those with a history of heart conditions to drive (I say half jokingly/half seriously). I can just imagine the uproar a proposed law like that would cause!

It all boils down to fear and ignorance by society. Again, not to make light of the safety issue, but maybe people like us need to take a stronger position when it comes to being seen as capible in many situations. Last I heard, they were looking at revising 49 CFR 391 (federal law pertaining to CDL medical requirements). That's why I suggested getting in touch with your Federal Senators and Congressmen, as well as the Federal Highway Administration and let them know of your concerns.

[Grazianina]

You are right about the high speed chases and life-saving maneuvers that must be undertaken by those individuals in enormously high-stress situations. My praise goes out to to them daily. I wanted to be a cop. It's the one thing in my life Epilepsy truly kept me from becoming. You say you don't even have seizures during the day. Does that that mean you occasionally get small ones at night? If you are indeed seizure free, your neurologist can do an EEG to show any active brain waves and show if indeed there is seizure activity. If there is activity....it is not a matter of IF you will have a seizure or the calculated risk in comparison to others. It is a matter of when you will have a seizure under the right circumstances and if it were to put not only you, but others in jeopardy. I believe we are capable of anything as Epileptics, but we also are capable of compassion for others which sometimes means putting our own desires aside and changing course on what makes us happy. So, now I'm studying law from the court room side of it and want to be a D.A. I can't be a cop, but I can still contribute. I wish you the best of luck and hope you are seizure free. I would love to have someone so passionate protecting my family.

[cjole]

I work in a power plant, I have been employed here for nine years now, in 2001, I had my first seizure of my life (I am 45 now). The environment I work in is pretty dangerous, lots of ladders, scaffolds, catwalks, not to mention the dangerous equipment around. Anyway, after my seizure, I returned to work, no problem, worked my job, and was seizure free for seven years. Unfortunatly, because of complications with my meds and the adverse effect they were having on my life and job, I weaned myself off them over about a 3 month period. Within about 3 months, I experienced another seizure (this past November). I returned to work with restrictions on working at heights, my employer had me in my regular job from Dec. through April, when I began training for another job. Sometime in April, I worked an overtime shift that had me climbing ladders etc. Well, someone didn't like it and said something to management, and then it went to HR, and I was temporarily placed in my current job, where I am in a room for my 12 hour shifts. It's a move-up paywise, but as of now is still temporary. I may have to go through what they call a paragraph 65 (part of our union contract) where they will place me here permanently. However, after talking with my union yesterday, I am scared. They are saying that if for some reason, the company decides that if I have a seizure doing this job, things could go very wrong, and someone could get hurt. So, the job that I have been doing now for 4 months, they may decide I can't do that either. If they do, I may be unemployed. I guess my biggest gripe is that my seizures are controlled under meds, I was seizure free for 7 years. (I did my job all that time.) I had a seizure, am back on meds, and have the approval of my neurologist to drive my car down the highway a sixty some miles an hour, but I can't climb ladders?? I can't do the very same job I have done for the last 7 years??? I just don't understand.

[Jfpinell]

Get ahold of the Epilepsy Foundation of America and perhaps a lawyer regarding the A.D.A. law. It sounds like you may have a case. The company is probably concerned about that ever-famous word: "liability", but it sounds like your "ability to perform the required job tasks" which is asked on applications would probably over-ride their fear of liability as an excuse!
I think it's funny that when the C.D.L. law (49 CFR 391, if I recall right) went into effect people like us could (and still can) work for a "political subdivision" -which includes public transportation vehicles, as well as city maintainence vehicles, but we couldn't (and still can't) drive truck over the road. Uhhhh...hello politicians! We can drive a city bus with how many people's lives in our hands all day, but we can't haul a load of paper across a State line? Hmmmmm...interesting!

[cjole]

Ok, I have another point. What about all the diabetics and guys who are working here who have had heart attacks? Aren't they just as big a risk as I am? Who's to say when they will have a low or another heart attack? They do the very same job that I was doing and also the one I am doing now. They have no more control over those incidences than I do over mine. They are as likely as I am to have an "episode" which would leave them unable to react or even maybe fall off the catwalks or ladders.

[Jfpinell]

You can sum that up in 1 word...politics! I've been wondering that same thing myself for years! The thing is, the entire CDL Bill was written voted on and signed into law in a matter of a day or 2, if I recall hearing right! That's exactly the reason there's still so many bugs in it.
Again, the best thing I can suggest is get in touch with your Federal Senator and Representative, and the Federal Highway Administration and let them know of your concerns.
As far as your current situation, there's no doubt a case of discrimmination there if you can show you can do the job physically. Ask a lawyer.

[Belinda5000]

You can't get a CDL if you've gone 35 years seizure free but you can if u have a heart problem.
My DH hasn't had a seizure since 1972 he couldn't fly a plane or get a CDL because he once had seizure's.

Belinda

[Jfpinell]

Look up "Code of Federal Regulations" on altavista.com, click on "code of federal regulations main page", click on "browse and/or search the CFR", scroll down to "49 Transportation" section, click on "Oct. 1, 2008", then click on the 5th box down on "300-399 Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration Department of Transportation", scroll down to "391", click, then go down to "391.41". That gives (in plain language -no legal jargon!) the qualifications for ontaining a CDL. Epilepsy is paragraph 8.
The odd thing is, at least in Wisconsin, USA, the form at the DMV to renew/apply for licenses asks under "commercial applicants" if you've had any loss of bodily control in the last 5 years -not if you've ever had any. Apparently if you're a first time applicant and you haven't had one in 5 years, they don't care...same as if you check "no" under the 3 month question for a regular license.
This is why the whole CDL law is all messed up. There are so many different parts of the law that are so loosely worded, it's not funny. I've asked a handful of people from local DMV people to DOT (State and Federal), truck driving instructors at school, Congress, and the Federal Highway Administration people the same questions, and each one gives me different answers to all my questions! It's no wonder why there is so much confusion on this law! Again, the best you could do is work for a town or county government driving snowplows, etc. at this time if you fall under certain exemptions (49 CFR 391.62). There's also an exemption for hauling farm machinery and crops oddly enough! (49 CFR 391.2 and 391.67)
Again, if you have your heart set on something along this line, get in touch with Congress and let them know of your opinions.