Let's talk about stigma

[Rae1889]

Okay,
I saw this article this morning and it made me sick. How some people can judge other people by the way they look, or a label. This article is about the Label of "Homeless" and "alcoholic". This man is considered both of them. but despite the down and outs he had, he still risked his life TWICE to save a two people from the currents of the fast moving Red River. Both times he was drunk.

The first time he saved someone was in May last year. Some stupid teen was horsing around on a bridge with some friends. he thought it would be funny to scare them, and pretend to jump off the bridge. His intentions were to land on the lower beams and then climb back up. well it didnt work and he fell. Faron didnt hesitate at all to jump in to save him. he risked his own life to save someone he didnt know. The paramedics afterward didnt even speak to him, or give him a blanket to warm up with. Its, may and its cold here still. there was still ice outside. and they were letting him freeze. They even had him arrested and dropped off at the drunk tank. Cold, wet and sick.

Second time, his 2 friends and drinking buddies fell in. boyfriend and girlfriend. he beat himself up so bad that he was only able to save the girl. Then later on, he was beat up from the news attention that he associated with the 2 people. and then the girl was murdered by a shop owner when she got caught stealing a can of ham. he beat her in the head with a baseball bat over ham. because she was homeless and stealling. he figured she was no good trash.

Now poor Faron is in the hospital again. This time for more serious injuries. He was stabbed on saturday.

The common link between these 2 people were that they were both homeless and they were both natives. natives in our city have a bad reputation. Most are not the glorious. proud people. Most dont try and do good. most are drug addicts, alcoholics, prositutes etc. and they blame the white people. and the white people blame them. but even in Winnipeg, the colour of your skin and you background seem to matter. even though it is illegal, there is racism and sterotyping everywhere. no matter who you are.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...wAllComments=y

This opens my eyes to everything out there that I am labeled as. Woman, Young adult, Punk, non-catholic, non christian, white, short, small, epileptic, asthmatic etc. and all the sterotypes that go with them. Every "hat" I wear, there is negative out put for it.

What "hats" do you wear and what have the general responses been to that "hat"? ex: being a young mother, or someone with a dyed green mohawk?

[Cint]

One wears whatever label or "HAT" they allow themselves to wear, positive or negative.
Life is what you make it.
I am a middle age woman who has epilepsy, (not an epileptic) was married to a pilot, raised two college graduates, one who had asthma growing up and was ADHD. He graduated magna cum laude and now will be going on to study International law, waiting to see which prestigious college offers the best scholarship. Both of my children had a rough time growing up seeing their mother having seizures, but they didn't turn to drugs & alcohol to dull the pain.

[seizingbeauty]

I understand what you mean. I am 30 and have a 11yr old daughter. Being a young mom with E has definately had people try to apply stereotypes. I look young for my age and my daughter and I have been called sisters many times. She just laughs it off telling people its great she gets a big sister and mom all rolled into one.

[Rae1889]

One wears whatever label or "HAT" they allow themselves to wear, positive or negative.
Life is what you make it.
I am a middle age woman who has epilepsy, (not an epileptic) was married to a pilot, raised two college graduates, one who had asthma growing up and was ADHD. He graduated magna cum laude and now will be going on to study International law, waiting to see which prestigious college offers the best scholarship. Both of my children had a rough time growing up seeing their mother having seizures, but they didn't turn to drugs & alcohol to dull the pain.

sounds like you have some tough, courageous and caring children. and congrats to whoever did the madna cum laude! that takes a tonne of commitment and lots of goal setting. He will go far.

[occb]

Having it rough is a relative statement.

Cint, your children had it rough as compared to others of similar social status and financial circumstances. They were lucky to have a safe environment to grow up in and parents who loved them and helped them achieve their best despite obstacles, and despite that their mother suffered from a frightening illness.

First Nations People in Canada have it rough as compared to every other Canadian. They have multi-generational PTSD brought on by our Government systematically removing children from their homes, parents, siblings and extended family and placing them into residential schools where they were not allowed to speak their language, practice their culture, or interact with any family members that may have been there. Additionally, a large proportion of these children were physically, mentally, emotionally and sexually abused. The last residential school closed in Saskatchewan in the 1990's, so this isn't ancient history here. I've worked with a second generation residential school survivor -- she was very lucky to have had one parent who had not been to res school, and therefore had not lost her culture, her language, or her family ties, and who was able to raise her with love and understanding. Her other parent drank himself to death as a result of his horrific experiences in res school.

Even if Native people assimilated to the dominant culture, they were not allowed the same rights under the law in Canada -- for example, during WWII, men who enlisted were given educational and vocational training after the war, unless they were aboriginal. First Nations people were not given the right to vote until 1960. These are only two of many examples through the decades.

They have experienced hardships in their lives we can only imagine, and continue to do so. First Nations people are the most victimized group in Canada. They are far more likely to experience all types of abuse and assault than any other people. Of those aboriginals who live on reserves, many live in poverty with inadequate housing, contaminated water and few resources. Many of those who live in the city experience severe racism, and discrimination in both social and work contexts.

Let's not judge drug and alcohol abuse until we've walked a mile in their shoes.

[Rae1889]

Yes, good points occb. I felt so bad for Faron Hall. That poor man receives no help, no aide, not a thing but abuse and ignorance when he risked his life twice. Once for a white teenager, and once for his two native drinking buddies. He lost everything before he became homeless. He actually has a university degree, but couldnt stop going to the bottle (can't remember what happened, but it severly depressed him) I feel that these people should be looked up to more.

Granted they could have chosen to break the cycle. not be how their parents were, not beat their children and could have chosen to not drink. But they blame us for somethings we cannot control and vice versa. Not being able to control something and being penalized for it. I have never experianced prejudice or hate towards me for being epileptic, but I have had people ask me why I just can't stop it, or people thinking that as soon as I'm on a good dose of meds this will never have to happen again. but then they would think that I could just stop taking the meds after. its sort of an endless cycle.

I have experianced other prejiduce (i can't spell that sorry). just the other night we tried to go to Earl's and have a few drinks and some appetizers or something. So we got to the door, and the hostess asks how many. We say 6. then she starts to grab menus, and then stops and asks how many of us plan to drink. because we would have to have 50% of us eating "multi component meals" which meant appetizers were out. as well as chicken fingers, french fries, salads, pasta and deserts. all because they were single compenent. It turns out when we went to the other earl's that its not their policy, and that the hostess was most likely discriminating because we look young. hoping that he "policy" would discourage us.

I have been walked right passed in stores that I worked in, and people would go straight to the man. because I was young and female, they figured I didnt know what I was doing. But most times the male would have to ask me. I was the store manager as well as a first year optician at this point. so I had more senority as well as knowledge. but most older people assumed I was young, immature, and stupid.

[occb]

Yes, good points occb. I felt so bad for Faron Hall. That poor man receives no help, no aide, not a thing but abuse and ignorance when he risked his life twice. Once for a white teenager, and once for his two native drinking buddies. He lost everything before he became homeless. He actually has a university degree, but couldnt stop going to the bottle (can't remember what happened, but it severly depressed him) I feel that these people should be looked up to more.

Granted they could have chosen to break the cycle. not be how their parents were, not beat their children and could have chosen to not drink. But they blame us for somethings we cannot control and vice versa. Not being able to control something and being penalized for it.

The situation they are in did not exist before Europeans came. If you ask the Elders, they can tell you this situation did not even exist on such a wide-spread scale until the Residential Schools were insituted. Whose fault is that?

It's hard to break the cycle of violence, especially if you're in a situation where violence has become a normal way of being. If all your friends and family experience it, what makes you think you deserve any better?

The violence also doesn't just come from within the communities, but also from outside of the communities. There are many, many people working toward changing this, but it requires time. As I said before -- this isn't ancient history we're talking about.

Additionally, PTSD increases in severity with each generation, as those who have been abused give birth to children whose epigenetic heritage makes them prone to suffer more severely from stress. How they choose to deal with that stress depends on their immediate social context.

I have never experianced prejudice or hate towards me for being epileptic, but I have had people ask me why I just can't stop it, or people thinking that as soon as I'm on a good dose of meds this will never have to happen again. but then they would think that I could just stop taking the meds after. its sort of an endless cycle.

That's the "why can't you be more normal" syndrome that all people with chronic health problems or disabilities experience. Those who are unwilling to grasp what circumstances you live in will continue to behave in ways that could eventually harm you emotionally, financially, mentally, or even physically. That's discrimination.

I have experianced other prejiduce (i can't spell that sorry). just the other night we tried to go to Earl's and have a few drinks and some appetizers or something. So we got to the door, and the hostess asks how many. We say 6. then she starts to grab menus, and then stops and asks how many of us plan to drink. because we would have to have 50% of us eating "multi component meals" which meant appetizers were out. as well as chicken fingers, french fries, salads, pasta and deserts. all because they were single compenent. It turns out when we went to the other earl's that its not their policy, and that the hostess was most likely discriminating because we look young. hoping that he "policy" would discourage us.

I have been walked right passed in stores that I worked in, and people would go straight to the man. because I was young and female, they figured I didnt know what I was doing. But most times the male would have to ask me. I was the store manager as well as a first year optician at this point. so I had more senority as well as knowledge. but most older people assumed I was young, immature, and stupid.

The more things change, the more they stay the same *sigh* I worked retail for many years. At times I had been so mistreated by the public that even the densest of my male co-workers said "hey... that's sexist!"

[Rae1889]

yup. and it sucks. this poor man. and this is huge discrimination and stigma applied to someone who doesnt deserve it. He is still a human being and still deserves respect and coutesy and help. but beacuse of sterotypes and stigmas, he gets abused and beaten and made fun of. after all he did for people. He put a face to the homeless and those that need our help. more often than not, they get the worst of it. because nobody cares.

[Nakamova]

I do work for two different non-profits that help the homeless. The stereotypes and stigma are definitely out there, but there are also lots of folks who care and who are trying to fill in the gaps in the national and local safety net. As with epilepsy, it can feel like an endless uphill battle.

[occb]

yup. and it sucks. this poor man. and this is huge discrimination and stigma applied to someone who doesnt deserve it. He is still a human being and still deserves respect and coutesy and help. but beacuse of sterotypes and stigmas, he gets abused and beaten and made fun of. after all he did for people. He put a face to the homeless and those that need our help. more often than not, they get the worst of it. because nobody cares.

Agreed! We even heard all about his rescues out here, but, of course, we never got the news about how he was treated after each of these heroic acts. He deserves much better than all of that cruelty.

Stigma is a very real barrier for far too many people. It's not always so easy to pretend it doesn't exist.

[Chris515]

Faron is a hero, but is not treated as such because he is homeless. If he was of another ethnicity and had a job then he would be given the key to the city. I can't believe people criticize him and say he is not a hero because he drinks and is homeless. I'm sure most of those people wouldn't have the courage to do what he did, twice.

Very good points occb and Rae.

Aboriginal people have had it really hard in Canada. Many of the reserves, especially the isolated ones, are at a third world poverty level. up to 80% unemployment. No running water. Suicide rates are among the highest in the entire world - up to 15 times higher than the national average.

This shouldn't be happening here.

[Rae1889]

Stigma is a very real barrier for far too many people. It's not always so easy to pretend it doesn't exist.

too true. and I think that with E, there are several different levels of how people react to the stigma. Some people get mad, or sad, some people just don't care and blow it off knowing that it takes an insecure person to make such comments. Others feel the need to advocate. But its also hard to advocate things, where so many people who have different views on it too. Who wants to be called what, who thinks this should be like this or like that. There are lots of stigmas to disprove to people that we can all agree on.

Like don't put anything in our mouths, dont hold us down, dont call the cops and if you want to call something an ambulance would be better *in public*, not all seizures require a trip to the ER. staying comfy and cozy at home works just as good in most cases.

and then there are others that people can't agree on. So i think thats what would make it hard to decide who is right about what.

[Rae1889]

your right too chris.
but there are far too many people that say "they bring this on themselves" they seem to have good points, but then they also seem harsh. but then again life and reality are harsh. The people on the remote reserves asked to be there. they wanted to be able to stay with their native ways and how they used to live. So we let them. We paid for housing, but within 1 or 2 years, they have destroyed them and then expect us to rebuild again. They dont really have a sense of what things are worth and that they should take care of things, because they *most* dont know what its like to earn a house or a car, because our society just gives it too them.

I think that if they want to be the proud people they were, that they need to take responsibilty for their own actions and we can teach them community skills and job skills as well as continued education *although they also have a high drop out rate* I think we need to help them get on their feet to support themselves, instead of us doing it for them. but with something medical, there really isnt much that the government or society can do for us. we have to do it ourselves. we need to *americans mostly* pay for our own care if we want to live healthy and not be sick. we have to pay for all this if there is no insurance for hospital visits that we cannot control or medication we are forced to take the rest of our lives, which gets expensive but also if we dont take them, we end up in the hospital and that gets exoensive

[occb]

your right too chris.
but there are far too many people that say "they bring this on themselves" they seem to have good points, but then they also seem harsh. but then again life and reality are harsh. The people on the remote reserves asked to be there. they wanted to be able to stay with their native ways and how they used to live. So we let them. We paid for housing, but within 1 or 2 years, they have destroyed them and then expect us to rebuild again. They dont really have a sense of what things are worth and that they should take care of things, because they *most* dont know what its like to earn a house or a car, because our society just gives it too them.

Myths abound, and we don't even know they're myths. Like the person who is convinced that putting a spoon in someone's mouth is the right thing to do if somebody is having a seizure, we believe whole-heartedly that the above is true for all indiginous people across Canada, but it's not.

Here, the people have to buy their houses on the reserves. After waiting years on a waitlist to get a house. After they die, their families do not inherit the house, and they do not get the money back. It's not handed to them like we believe. Few people are handed things in life, despite what the average Canadian thinks they know. We are woefully undereducated in issues facing First nations people in Canada.

Many who live on reserves would like to continue to live in traditional ways, but simply can't. Here there are no more buffalo for them to live off of. Not enough land anyway if there were. In many places up north, traditional hunting grounds have been flooded or filthied by our need for energy. Plus, there are no jobs... what are they supposed to do? Come to the city to be treated like scum?

I think that if they want to be the proud people they were, that they need to take responsibilty for their own actions and we can teach them community skills and job skills as well as continued education *although they also have a high drop out rate* I think we need to help them get on their feet to support themselves, instead of us doing it for them.

They need to reclaim their culture and traditions first. You can't be proud of who you are, if you don't know who you are. We can support them on their journey. In fact, I think we have an obligation to do that. Part of that obligation falls on individuals like us to learn the difference between fact and fiction regarding their daily lives. We need to learn about their traditions properly. Show their ways the respect they deserve, understand where they have come from, and where they would like to go, and support that, instead of underminging them every step of the way by reminding them they aren't there yet.

but with something medical, there really isnt much that the government or society can do for us. we have to do it ourselves. we need to *americans mostly* pay for our own care if we want to live healthy and not be sick. we have to pay for all this if there is no insurance for hospital visits that we cannot control or medication we are forced to take the rest of our lives, which gets expensive but also if we dont take them, we end up in the hospital and that gets exoensive

There is a ton that our government and society can do for us with medical issues, and luckily, in canada, we get a lot of that. We pay communally into our health care system, which means, we're supporting everybody here, and providing the basic care every human being deserves.

We get most of our medical visits and procedures covered. There are rehab programs for physical injuries, community programs for those with mental illness to learn how to live functionally in our society. There ar eprograms to help people with disabilities find their way back into jobs, and housing. And there is support for them until they get on their feet, support even if they never get on their feet. In these medical circumstances, we don't distinguish between those who had bad genes, bad accidents, bad life experiences, and those who simply made bad choices.

[occb]

One more thing -- how can Natives live in a traditional way if much of their tradition was utterly wiped out by the res schools?

Okay. Maybe I should stop my lecturing now I just wanted to point out that the situation is much more complex than it appears.

[Cint]

Having it rough is a relative statement.

Cint, your children had it rough as compared to others of similar social status and financial circumstances. They were lucky to have a safe environment to grow up in and parents who loved them and helped them achieve their best despite obstacles, and despite that their mother suffered from a frightening illness.

Even if Native people assimilated to the dominant culture, they were not allowed the same rights under the law in Canada -- for example, during WWII, men who enlisted were given educational and vocational training after the war, unless they were aboriginal. First Nations people were not given the right to vote until 1960. These are only two of many examples through the decades.

They have experienced hardships in their lives we can only imagine, and continue to do so. First Nations people are the most victimized group in Canada. They are far more likely to experience all types of abuse and assault than any other people. Of those aboriginals who live on reserves, many live in poverty with inadequate housing, contaminated water and few resources. Many of those who live in the city experience severe racism, and discrimination in both social and work contexts.

Let's not judge drug and alcohol abuse until we've walked a mile in their shoes.

All I meant by my statement was that the high school my children attended, many of the kids there came from a prominent background, therefore many of the parents didn't seem to give a hoot about what their kids did or who they hung out with in their spare time. Drugs and alcohol were a very rampant passtime for many of the kids. My son had ADHD and told me that kids at school were selling the prescription drugs at school. I had to keep an eye on my son because I didn't want him to do the same. I'm not judging anyone, because there is so much of my story that hasn't been told, also.

My daughter is planning to marry a Native American this summer. This future SIL came from a very abusive background, his father was an alcoholic, beat his mother and the kids and left them when the kids were teenagers. This young man put himself through college and has a decent paying job and vowed never to be an alcoholic like his father. So in America, Native Americans have suffered more discrimination than anyone, IMO.

[C0urt]

I have had an emt ask if they should have put something in my mouth before, and he said it like he believed it.

I have my dealt with my fair amount of discrimination. I think everyone has one was or another. It is funny sometimes, and sometimes it is just sad. I own a nice bicycle from when I worked at a bike shop. I have had a cop plainly say I was pulled over to make sure my bike wasn't stolen. Had the same thing happen on my motorcycle a few times if I were in the wrong part of town. These are the same cops who two two weeks to get me my bike back after I had a seizure and they missplaced it.

To make matters worse I was raised by an English teacher and I pull my pants up. It seems like I stick out worse than the guys who go around with their pants around their hips, it is obvious I don't talk like any of them. I was taught to speak clearly to adults. I spoke that way during my disabilty interview. One of the reasons I was denied. I spoke too clearly. I am still a bit pissed about that, and it is a year later.

This man is an amazing artist, he let me do an interview. We had a real job job at first, but he was fired and kicked out of his house by his family. I didn't ask details, it was none of my business. He had been on the streets for several years, and made his money selling his paintings downtown. Since I took the pics he has moved up in the world, but for the longest time people just walked by and ignored him, called him trash and stuff.