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  #1  
Old 03-21-2015, 11:13 PM
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Bone Density


We know that some anti-epileptic drugs (probably most do) can interfere with bone formation or vitamin D and calcium absorption.

Many have had deal with low bone density and osteoporosis. I have a question about osteopenia / osteoporosis. If one has low bone density, is it more typical to see low bone mass "across the board" or do some vertebrae have it while others are "normal?"

In my case, I have one particular vertebrae, the L4, that is lowest, while the upper back is normal in some places. I thought this was just how it was, but an endocrinologist I saw made it sound like he didn't understand why it would be low in one place and not another (as though that were unusual). It honestly made me question if I should even bother with him anymore if he didn't know more about this.

So what do the CWE people say? It is it more typical for "across the board" bone loss, or can it show up in just one or two places quite often as well?
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:17 AM
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It is important to note that these bone scan generally only sample a few areas to begin with, but in spite of this fact osteopenia and osteoporosis can show up in some areas and not others. I have regular bone scans due to celiac disease (known to cause malabsorption of nutrients, vitamins and minerals) and due to the anti-epileptic drugs. Although in my last scan everything was finally in the normal range, the past few showed normal in two of the sampled vertebrae but not the others, and reduced in the right hip but normal on the left. This scan was considered abnormal, but not osteopenia; just indicating that there were very early markers of bone loss in some areas of my body. If left untreated it would have become more widespread bone loss.
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:54 PM
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If your experience shows that osteopenia/porosis can show up in one area and not another, then that makes me wonder why an endocrinologist wouldn't know that too... I get tired of docs who are supposed to know more than we are and just don't, even the specialists. He made it sound like my L4 wasnt as big of a deal because the rest of my spine wasnt terrible.

My L1 to L3 are pretty okay, but my L4 is right at borderline between osteopenia and osteoporosis, I full expect that is at osteoporosis levels by now and will show that on my next scan next year.

Do you take one type of calcium over another?

A vitamin nutritionist, told me about this version. It is more algae based than others. Any thoughts?

http://www.drugstore.com/new-chapter...lets/qxp206252
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Old 03-22-2015, 02:03 PM
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Calcium carbonate contains the highest percentage of elemental calcium, although some say calcium citrate is better absorbed. Brand doesn't matter as long as it is a recognized drugstore brand. Personally I do not trust health food stores that sell their own brand or little known brands found only in health food stores, as very often there is nothing to regulate exactly what goes into their supplements. Drugstore brands have much more stringent regulations re. content. Be sure to take vitamin D along with the calcium; it is very important for calcium absorption into the bones.
I don't know anything about algae calcium. Research it carefully, reading medically-based sites and controlled studies, rather than just taking the word of the person at the health food store.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:10 PM
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Make some bone broth. Best supplement ever invented for bone density and delicious too.
I had a bad full body case of osteopenia post chemo therapy. I turned it around and got back to healthy density within a year just by having a nightly cup of bone broth and getting out in the sun as much as possible.
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:17 PM
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I typically take a product called Bone-up. It comes with calcium, D, K, and Magnesium included. I do supplement with extra D though anyway, since even with the extra D from Bone-up, I was still at the lower end of normal on my last Vitamin D blood test.

I just have also heard about too much calcium causing artery blockages (particularly carbonate), so I thought about this algae based version, which supposedly would be better absorbed (and theoretically better for bones and arteries).


Aloha, you may need to PM a recipe, as I am NOT a cook. Also, when you turned your density around, how bad were you, and were you taking anti-epileptic drugs at the time too. I have a feeling that although some anti-epileptic drugs are worse than others, that all of them can be problematic for bones, especially depending on the patient.
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:35 AM
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Yes, I've been on anti-epileptic drugs for many years. I'm not sure how much of my bone loss was caused by that and how much was from the chemotherapy I had in 07-08.
Soon after my therapy was finished, I had a minor slip and fall incident where I broke the last two fingers in my right hand in a total of five places. They just sort of crumbled. That was when somebody thought to do a bone density scan. I was told it was in the osteopenia as opposed to full blown osteoporosis range but I don't remember the numbers.

Bone broth is really simple to make. Just save up any bones from cooking (doesn't matter what kind of critter). Keep them in the freezer until you have a bunch. You can also ask your local butcher if they sell soup bones. They often sell them dirt cheap or even give them away just to get rid of them.
Put the bones in a soup pot or the best option is a slow cooker Crock Pot. Add enough water to cover all the bones. Add a splash of something acidic, either vinegar or lemon or lime juice. This is necessary to get the bones to give up their minerals.
Then you put the lid on and cook at a slow simmer for at least 12-24 hours. You know the bones have given up all their goodness when your dog sniffs at them and says, "Meh!"

Toss the bones and you are left with a rich stock that can be flavored any way you like. Salt and pepper, herbs, chiles, garlic, up to you. This can be a drink by itself or be the base of lots of other soups. Once you have had soup made with homemade bone broth, nothing out of a can will ever taste like anything other than salty water again.
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:19 PM
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I guess I need to buy a crock pot...


Told you I wasn't a cook. Looks like its time to learn. Too bad someone like you doesnt live next door!
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:22 PM
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Making your own is ideal of course, but you can have it shipped to you: http://www.aubonbrothbonebroth.com/c...ions/frontpage
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:31 PM
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The US Wellness Meats company also makes and ships bone broth, beef, chicken, and duck. They also sell bones. http://grasslandbeef.com
A bit pricey though. The Crock Pot would pay for itself quickly if you make stock regularly.
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:51 PM
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Anyone have any experience with any of the bone loss drugs? I've read some about bisphosphonates and they seem to be side effect prone. Obviously, I know they all have side effects, but my Mom has been told she has osteoporosis and her doc wants to give her Prolia shots, which is a newer treatment.

I've read some bad things about the side effects. Her T score in her right hip is -2.8.
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:44 AM
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Hi Dignan,

I've been taking mysoline (primidone) for over 30 yrs. and that drug has caused a lot of bone loss for me over the yrs. I have also ended up fracturing my ankle thanks to the drug. I've found just keeping active by walking and taking multiple vitamins with minerals each day has been a help. I wish you and your family only the best and May God Bless You!

Sue
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Old 07-08-2017, 02:22 PM
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Thanks Sue. Are there any particular vitamins or minerals that you take that have helped with the effects of bone loss? I mean, besides, vitamin D, magnesium, calcium, etc.

Interestingly, her new internist told her that she doesnt need to take calcium, which i found odd. She already takes a muli vitamin and supplements with extra D3 daily.

Thanks!
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Old 07-08-2017, 03:26 PM
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Hi Dignan,

I don't take any particular vitamins but I do take zinc and vitamin C twice a day along with magnesium. I found that calcium and vitamin D triggered seizures so I had to stay away from that. One thing that I do use twice a day but I'm not sure if it would help with the bone loss I just know it helps with my back pain since I have 2 herniated discs and that's medical marijuana. Also when I buy the vitamins I buy them for people over 50 yrs. of age and I think that helps a little also.
Wishing you and your family only the best and May God Bless All of You!

Sue
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