Exploring the Gut-Brain Connection and Photosensitivity

[SlimBlue]

Thanks, that's certainly a start lol

My best friends have children at vaccination age and are obviously concerned about it.

 

[Shelley]

Keith
I was born before most vaccines, including polio.
Can you tell me which vaccine caused my autism and seizures?
How about my missing half of my cerebellum?

In other news, after the faulty paper was pulled from all medical publications, fewer people think that vaccines cause autism.

 

[SlimBlue]

There's no way they won't be vaccinating there children- anyone who does that is an idiot. But they like to see as much evidence as possible..

 

[epileric]

Thanks for asking, Slim, as I've not researched it before and it would take days to cover, but here are a few.

Vaccine injury is probably the hottest topic in medicine today with the autism epidemic where a huge percentage of autistic children are also epileptic; I've read 50% in the worst cases of autism.

First off, I'd like to know where you read that, the only place vaccine injury is a hot topic is on anti-vax conspiracy sites. Secondly how does the percentage of people with autism having seizures have to do with vaccinations? Autism has been proven not to be caused by vaccines. It was around long before vaccines & it will be around long after. It looks to me like you are just scare mongering.

You may not believe vaccination can cause autism and that's not a subject for this forum, but vaccine injury is real and autism is even listed as side effect of the DTaP vaccine in the package insert. Seizure after vaccination is all too common and it's not such a stretch to accept that long-term seizure disorder caused by some vaccines exists.

If you believe that is not a topic for this forum then why do you insist on bringing it up? Also I notice you make claims about the package insert of the DTaP vaccine but give no link. I find that surprising for someone who loves to post links. Here's the DTaP insert where autism is NOT listed as a side effect. What it does say is:

Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS,
anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence
and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are
reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to
establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.2

I believe the mechanism of childhood vaccine injury is about:
1) damage to flora balance (there are no studies, though the cholera vaccine is known to significantly raise gram-negative bacteria, not a good thing)
2) microbial predisposition leading to vaccine reaction (no studies)

Thank you for acknowledging that these are just your personal beliefs & that there are not studies that prove this. Sometimes the way you make claims with such confidence seem to imply otherwise.

Autism is known to be gut-driven. Isn't it about time the epilepsy industry begin to focus on the gut? Meanwhile, Infantile Spasm experts appear helpless thinking it's all about the brain.

Autism is not known to be gut-driven and there are no valid studies to imply it is. Recently it Autism was shown to have begin in the womb Routine Ultrasounds May Detect Autism in Utero

There's no way they won't be vaccinating there children- anyone who does that is an idiot. But they like to see as much evidence as possible..

In my opinion you should be very careful about using Keiths posts as information.
Despite his claims, if you read any of his links you'll see that they often contradict what he says. He consistently does many things that misinform in his posts that I and others have brought up before. One of those things is linking to studies that record when children have a single seizure due to vaccinations. That is not uncommon but Keith tends to re-word that as "seizure disorder" when having a seizure & having epilepsy are very different things. He also tends to link to studies of single individuals. It is good to have these studies because they show if there eventually is a correlation but if I did a study of how many people hiccuped after a vaccination & after looking at thousands of people getting a shot & eventually seeing one hiccup, then writing a report on that single individual would not mean that vaccines causes hiccups. Keiths last 2 links are single individuals which really means they don't prove anything.

His first link to the "Pediatrics" journal says

CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that in most cases, genetic or structural defects are the underlying cause of epilepsy with onset after vaccination, including both cases with preexistent encephalopathy or benign epilepsy with good outcome.

His second paper refers to the grand success and importance of vaccines, and then moves on to speak about a FEBRILE seizure, a FEVER, which is quite natural and normal after vaccination. It is not epilepsy.

His third trial disproves his point:

There is no increased risk of postvaccination seizure in infants regardless of timing of vaccination.

And as I've said before, the last two are single cases. In one of these, the patient already had epilepsy before the vaccine.

She exhibited myoclonic jerks early in life, but these disappeared with age.

It is these sort of tactics that I can't help but see as scaremongering & nothing less. Many people use these tactics but be aware of them when people claim to show you "proof"

 

[SlimBlue]

I think you're right epileric- I was trying to do the good friend thing and supply some 'evidence' as there is a lot of this crazy nonsense flying round the various parents meetings, etc.

After reading a bit of it I don't think I'll be passing it on lol In fact I've actually c&p'd some of your debunks- so they can pass them on..

As far as I can see online, it is just that- crazy nonsense. They'll be vaccinating their children- because they're responsible parents.

 

[Keith]

My view is that people may be born compromised, Shelley, where vaccines may add insult to injury. And some people are simply naturally predisposed to vaccine injury such as African American boys as recently admitted by a CDC Senior Scientist:
http://www.morganverkamp.com/august...-relationship-between-mmr-vaccine-and-autism/

Eric, here's the DTaP label where autism is listed as side effect (adverse event, whatever):
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/biologicsbloodvaccines/vaccines/approvedproducts/ucm101580.pdf

And I completely agree autism begins in the womb as that's what microbial predisposition is all about where microbes are passed from mother to fetus. I even believe fetal brain development is dependent on flora balance. The fetal brain triples in weight in the third trimester while the mother's microbiome shifts toward a diabetic state. There are many other types of environmental insults to the fetal brain such as toxic pollution which also shifts flora.

There's plenty of evidence vaccines can and do cause autism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsLuR3X6cpg&list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

People in the autism community are highly focused on the gut-brain while the epilepsy community is all brain and no guts.

 

[SlimBlue]

Keith, I realise this is a forum, for discussion and debate, and you have a belief you want to spread- for whatever reason.

But when it comes to affecting the lives of real people, a family that has accepted me as one of their own, 2 children I see as the daughters I'll probably never have of my own- there's no way in hell I could provide this 'information' and ever sleep soundly again.

Going back over this thread for a few days has reminded me of the crazy conspiracy theory boards I used to hang out on when I was bored.

 

[Keith]

There's more than one kind of epilepsy, Slim. What I've been addressing is a very large percentage of epileptics, perhaps over 50%, where seizures begin from out of nowhere and doctors focus on the brain without looking at the larger gut-brain picture. Their only treatment is a cocktail of anticonvulsant drug therapy which doesn't work much of the time. Or doctors might try the ketogenic diet which they believe is about ketones and the brain in disregard of flora shift as mechanism of success. Perhaps if some focus were on the gut, i.e., to balance blood sugar where hypoglycemic reactions result in seizure activity, brain damage such as lesions of gut origin would be averted and even healed due to brain plasticity.

What I'm not addressing is epilepsy which has its origins in physical differences and injuries. My focus has always been about metabolic problems related to flora imbalance as cause of seizure. And I don't appreciate being labeled a "crazy conspiracy theorist" in the least.

 

[SlimBlue]

Thank you for providing me the links, but after analysis I don't think I'll pass them on.

And I don't appreciate being labeled a "crazy conspiracy theorist" in the least.

I wouldn't either, but please don't put words into my mouth- I said this thread had reminded me of those boards. And it does, I'm sorry.

I joined this thread to see if there was important information I could pass on to my best friends.

Again, thank you for your time. I'll be leaving the thread now.

 

[epileric]

My view is that people may be born compromised, Shelley, where vaccines may add insult to injury. And some people are simply naturally predisposed to vaccine injury such as African American boys as recently admitted by a CDC Senior Scientist:
http://www.morganverkamp.com/august...-relationship-between-mmr-vaccine-and-autism/

Keith, you're posting a Lawyers site as proof of something. Not only does that not show proof because people sue for money & when money is at stake then facts tend to be secondary but also, so far the criminal courts have not found any validity in the anti-vaccination claims.

Eric, here's the DTaP label where autism is listed as side effect (adverse event, whatever):
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/biologicsbloodvaccines/vaccines/approvedproducts/ucm101580.pdf

If you'd had the courtesy to read my full post you'd have seen that I posted the link & explained why your claim has no validity. All you have t odo is read the insert all the way through.

And I completely agree autism begins in the womb as that's what microbial predisposition is all about where microbes are passed from mother to fetus. I even believe fetal brain development is dependent on flora balance. The fetal brain triples in weight in the third trimester while the mother's microbiome shifts toward a diabetic state. There are many other types of environmental insults to the fetal brain such as toxic pollution which also shifts flora.

This was never shown to be the case by any valid scientist. You do claim this to be your belief & I guess you have a right to that, regardless how unproven or unlikely it is. I don't think you should be stating your opinion as fact when there is nothing to back it up though.

There's plenty of evidence vaccines can and do cause autism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsLuR3X6cpg&list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

Keith, you're saying that because someone posted something on Youtube that it counts as "plenty of evidence"? That is a very, very low standard for evidence. Even the youtube account says that it's all parents & their anecdotal perceptions. No doctors, no scientists nobody with any training in biology. I think we should be very careful as to whose advice we take and what we can consider proof. There are many conspiracy theorists out there who post online, especially places like youtube, all who define "proof" very similarly.

People in the autism community are highly focused on the gut-brain while the epilepsy community is all brain and no guts.

Maybe some people in the autism community are focused on the gut-brain connection but not many at all. The autism parents I'm familiar with tend to laugh at those claims and do their best to protect their children from such misinformed people, usually referring to them as quacks.
Also, Even if all the autism community believed in the gut-brain connection that wouldn't make it true. There was a time when everyone believed that bloodletting would cure someone of their diseases and everyone was wrong. There was also a time when the majority of people believed that witches flew on brooms & could cast evil spells yet that wasn't true either, so saying that a group believes something does not count as "proof" or "evidence" that that something must be true. For that matter, a parent with a sick child (like the ones in your youtube site) is likely to be less objective in their thinking and hence more likely to try things that might not work.

 

[epileric]

There's more than one kind of epilepsy, Slim. What I've been addressing is a very large percentage of epileptics, perhaps over 50%, where seizures begin from out of nowhere and doctors focus on the brain without looking at the larger gut-brain picture. Their only treatment is a cocktail of anticonvulsant drug therapy which doesn't work much of the time. Or doctors might try the ketogenic diet which they believe is about ketones and the brain in disregard of flora shift as mechanism of success. Perhaps if some focus were on the gut, i.e., to balance blood sugar where hypoglycemic reactions result in seizure activity, brain damage such as lesions of gut origin would be averted and even healed due to brain plasticity.

Please show me any viable study that shows your theory works on any type of epilepsy. Also, I've never seen you claim it works on just certain types, you always claim it works on "epilepsy". Maybe you should be more specific when talking

What I'm not addressing is epilepsy which has its origins in physical differences and injuries. My focus has always been about metabolic problems related to flora imbalance as cause of seizure. And I don't appreciate being labeled a "crazy conspiracy theorist" in the least.

How do you differentiate between injuries, physical differences and metabolic differences? Never mind that a metabolic difference is a physical difference but metabolic issues have not been associated with epilepsy. Sadly this just shows how much more proper research & learning you need to do. I would suggest an introductory biology course at a qualified university or college.

 

[Shelley]

Let's try this angle:
http://www.medicaldaily.com/smoking-during-pregnancy-may-increase-autism-risk-children-240277

 

[MaryK]

I just wonder if this particular thread is doing more harm than good. It seems to me Keith that some of the info you post is scary and not necessarily totally proven. As someone who has had dxed epilepsy for 41 years I am worried that those newly dxed or those with friends or children with epilepsy will take some of your info as 'gospel'. While I appreciate your dedication, I can see some misusing or misinterpreting some of your info.
As far as vaccinations, my grandson's pediatrician feels that is his most important task, to make sure all children are vaccinated.

 

[Keith]

More regarding Bifidobacteria. They're known anti-inflammatory, tightening gut-junctions and stimulating antibody release from Peyer's patches of the small intestine. Now I'm learning they can lower ammonia which is a cause of seizure and brain damage:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19730107

Some strains of Bifidobacteria suppress/lower histamine: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18544899

Quote form a study: "Lactate is the primary fermentation product of Bifidobacteria, much of which is converted to butyrate by secondary fermenters (clostridia)." Lactate is also brain fuel:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140211084053.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390802/
http://www.cell.com/trends/neurosciences/abstract/S0166-2236(13)00063-5

I wonder if lactate in the brain drives gluconeogenesis in the brain to balance blood sugar/glucose in the brain to avert hypoglycemic seizure. We also know the brain makes its own insulin, though we don't know how; Alzheimer's is called type-3 diabetes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8264572

 

[epileric]

I just wonder if this particular thread is doing more harm than good. It seems to me Keith that some of the info you post is scary and not necessarily totally proven. As someone who has had dxed epilepsy for 41 years I am worried that those newly dxed or those with friends or children with epilepsy will take some of your info as 'gospel'. While I appreciate your dedication, I can see some misusing or misinterpreting some of your info.
As far as vaccinations, my grandson's pediatrician feels that is his most important task, to make sure all children are vaccinated.

Personally I tend to agree with you MaryK. The rules at CWE say that everyone gets their say but in that spirit that is the reason that when we see such posts like these that might do harm by spreading untruths that we have to speak up & get involved in the discussion rather than let harmful statements go unchallenged.

 

[SlimBlue]

Lo and behold I've returned.

After my experience in this thread recently I've been worrying deeply about it.

CWE is a very special site compared to the majority of dross on the web these days. It's a site where people are used to receiving heartfelt advice, and the most truthful information others have or have experienced. Most of the time, that information will lead them on a cause of action that directly affects their lives in a very significant way.

Debate threads are all well and good, but when the 'information' in a thread entitled 'Exploring..' is merely flooded in by one person- and the huge amount of requests for proper, peer-to-peer evaluated references as evidence are simply ignored- and falls apart under light scrutiny, I have to wonder about the dangers this unproven so-called information can cause to our community.

This thread is not 'exploring' anything. It's merely a soapbox that is abusing the good nature and less-harsh rules of a genuine support site for a serious medical condition.

 

[Keith]

In this latest study, scientists continue to blame vaccine-related epilepsy on genetics in disregard of gene-microbe interaction:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/16/us-immunization-epilepsy-idUSKBN0HB2GK20140916

 

[SlimBlue]

Ever been asked for 50c outside a train station? They usually try to make a connection with you before asking for it, to decrease the chance you'll see the real reason for the 'conversation'..

Great trainers mate, I'm a Nike man too- hate Reeboks.
Nice Man. U. shirt, is that one of the new ones? I'm one of their biggest fans!

It is however, very easy to see through.

 

[SlimBlue]

Whilst it's used by conmen and swindlers the world over, it's also used as an intellectually dishonest debate tactic, known as “affinity fraud”.

Claiming membership in a group affiliated with audience members: debater claims to be a member of a group that members of the audience are also members of like a religion, ethnic group, veterans group, and so forth; the debater’s hope is that the audience members will let their guard down with regard to facts and logic as a result and that they will give their alleged fellow group member the benefit of any doubt or even my-group-can-do-no-wrong immunity.

1 post in agreement, does not a thread negate..

 

[epileric]

In this latest study, scientists continue to blame vaccine-related epilepsy on genetics in disregard of gene-microbe interaction:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/16/us-immunization-epilepsy-idUSKBN0HB2GK20140916

Keith, I feel so silly repeating for the umpteenth time to read the sites before you post them. This new article says the opposite of what you are claiming- again.

While febrile seizures can be frightening to parents, they usually are brief and cause no harm.

In the days after receiving a vaccine, compared to other times, children are two to five times more likely to have a febrile seizure, according to the authors of the new study.

"When a child has its first seizure shortly after a vaccination, and continues to have seizures thereafter, parents may think the vaccination has caused the epilepsy. However, in our study the majority of children who developed epilepsy after a vaccination, had a genetic or structural cause of the epilepsy," Dr. Nienke Verbeek, a clinical geneticist at University Medical Centre Utrecht in The Netherlands, told Reuters Health.

Febrile seizures do not equal epilepsy.

Also, newspapers have a habit of creating drama so just reading the first sentence of the story is not going to give you the information you're looking for. What it does show though is that you've decided what point you want to make & are looking for something to back it up rather than reading full articles to accurately learn anything about the situation.

I think what I'm going to have to do is start an MS Word document that says things like "Keith, that disproves your point" & "Keith, opinions are not evidence" to make my life easier so that I can just cut & paste them each time rather than constantly type the same thing over & over.