Lying for your driver's license? Do it?

[Silat]

People that obviouly can't drive due to a medical condtion, thst everyone would agree should not drive is not the same has a person with epilepsy.

Here's the thing, the majority of the population, the majority of government officials, and the majority of doctors feel that people with Epilepsy should not drive. To them, it's a medical condition that is severe enough that the person who has it is should not have a driving license. Unless they can go 6 months to a year, depending on where they live, seizure-free... at which point they can be apply for a license and be able to drive again.

Also, I should point out, that the original poster posted about a bad Tonic-Clonic he had just had about a day or two before he posted this question... Which means his seizures are not under control, which means he should not drive until they are under control, and have been consistently under control for the set period of time for his area, and has his doctors approval that he can drive again.

Look around you at the other vehicles on the road. How many drunks, dopeheads and just plain distracted drivers are out there? I feel that they are as much a danger to those around them as someone with certain forms of epilepsy.

And how many drunks, dopeheads, and distracted drivers have had their licenses taken away because of what they did? The difference is, they're taking your license before a wreck or injury occurs, not after when you have a medical condition. And there are plenty of laws designed to catch, imprison, or otherwise negate the possible damage those people could cause... so it's not like it's perfectly okay for them to be driving, and not okay for us.

Is it really safe to say that everyone should be able to drive, except those who get in a wreck because of their medical condition and prove they can't drive? That's a recipe for needless injuries and deaths, simply because one person or one group of people feel they should be able to drive, when it's clearly a hazard to drivers and pedestrians around them, even if it's not a hazard 100% of the time, it's still a hazard, and that's why the 6 month to 1 year rule has been put in place, to minimize the risk to everyone.

Basically, any condition that could result in a loss of consciousness while driving, will cause the person with the condition to lose their license. Laws aren't perfect, but that doesn't mean people should ignore the laws they don't like simply because they're inconvenient.

But you're right, he has a choice. He can either obey the laws and find a way to get around without his license (carpooling, finding a closer job, moving closer to his current job, etc.)... Or he can ignore them, risk the possibility of having a seizure behind the wheel, and face massive fines and spend quite a few years behind bars if that does happen for the charges of perjury, and telling a lie under oath, and if he kills someone add vehicular manslaughter to that list as well... Plus, lawyers are clever and can come up with other charges out of nowhere to slap him with on top of those. And no defense attorney in the world is going to be able to save him if that does happen, because there is no defense at that point... and that's assuming he survives the car wreck in the first place. There's no guarantee of that.

And now I'll step off of my soapbox.

 

[Silat]

One last thing... I'm not trying to attack or offend anyone. I am trying to be as specific as possible in my replies so as to not create any confusion about what I'm trying to say. So it's not a personal attack or anything, it's just debating.

 

[Bathtub]

Depending where you live there may be compensatory help. In the UK if you have to give up your licence for statutory medical reasons (includes seizure) you become entitled to a ("disabled person") free bus pass. It's not the same as road trips whenever you feel like it, but it lets you get to work.

And if it's going to be an ongoing problem, give some thought to where you live. Take a weektime apartment nearer work if necessary, that's still cheaper than quitting work altogether. Or work nearer home.

Yeah, don't lie just so you can kill someone. How selfish are you?? And remember if you drive illegally, you are also not insured, no insurer will pay you to break the law. So they won't pay out when you crash. And if you can't tell the truth, who will want to employ you? It's just such a bad idea all round.

 

[tinathesingergirl]

Wow...in the UK you can get compensation if you have to give up your license for medical reasons? I don't think there is any such thing in the US on the books in order to get a bus pass. Buss passes here are pretty expensive and then trying to find a route that will get you where you need to go in most american cities even major ones like orlando when you want to get there is another hurdle. Many times it is faster to drive yourself. So I can see Andrew's point that where it would only take him 45 minutes to drive himself it could well take him 2 2 1/2 hours by bus if there was a route and he would have to pay for the bus pass himself. True, he would not have the insurance payment for his car wich would be a savings he could drop that for the time being, the bus pass alone would set him back around I know in Orlando its around $60-70 a month. I have no idea if medicare/statecare if he has that would pick up any costs of any specialized car service pickup service for doctors appointments etc.... sometimes that is faster service. The bottom line here Dont drive Andrew! We love you : )


Tina

 

[julie wishes]

Ugh! Truth is it all sucks. All this epilepsy stuff. But! A lie catches up with you. Dont do it. Worst case scenario, you hit a child walking on the side of the road. Could you really live with that reality? And your excuse would be... " because I wanted to drive even though I knew it was wrong." And I only point this out because I think you know its wrong since you took the time to ask. Im sorry any of us have to deal with these issues. Would be much easier not too, but life throws curve balls and we adjust and sometimes when we adjust using good moral judgements good things come our way.

 

[AndrewIrish]

My circumstance:

I work 45 minutes away. It's a new job. I live in Rural Indiana and work in Rural Kentucky - bus and public transportation to work is not an option. I'm also not able to move since I'm the breadwinner and we're behind in bills already - so moving is entirely not an option. I can't move closer to there, I can't alter reality and bring my job closer to me.

So here's the rub.

If I tell the truth and get my license yanked for even a short period of time - I can kiss my job goodbye and land myself in a homeless shelter before too long. I truly have no options. Morally, it's wrong - I know this. But I've never had a seizure while driving, never felt 'off' to any great degree while driving and I don't believe it's a trigger for me. I feel like a completely competent driver.

That being said, I understand and respect everyone's responses - they mirror my own. If I had the luxury of being able to get to and from work without needing to drive, I'd do it. Unfortunately, I live in a very rural area with no jobs near it so I was forced to find a job very far away. I need that job to sustain myself. I need my license to keep my job. I don't want to hurt anyone but someone whose never had a seizure in their live absolutely runs the risk as well of having a seizure out of the blue, of falling asleep at the wheel or a thousand other scenarios which end up in tragedy - do I know I'm at an elevated risk by continuing to drive? Yes, I do. Is there anything else I can do right now? No, there's not. If there was, I'd toss my license at the DMV and never get in a driver's seat again - I'd love to do that, I actually hate driving... just got no options in my case. Other then try to find a job closer to me but that's a bust because I'm in such a rural area. Only other optino I see is down the line... maybe 6-7 months(into having my license again), save up enough TO move closer to the job but for at least a forseeable future I'm going to have to just lie, keep my license and hope for the best. I've been driving for nearly ten years though so asking for just a few more months doesn't seem like such a huge stretch - it's a ll a moot point pragmatically but morally I agree with everyone. Just reality gets in the way of principles and beliefs sometimes unfortunately.

 

[AndrewIrish]

And again jjust to reiterate because I love this site and community - thank you guys and I mean really, looking at my situation if anyone else has some ideas to keep me from driving, my ears are completely open right now. And yes too clear up some confusion... my seizures as a whole aren't under control right now - I did have a TC just a few days ago and sprained my neck so I understand by all means that right now I shouldn't be driving just goes back to my previous post. But yea, again - thank you guys.

 

[Nakamova]

Andrew, I feel for you, it's got to be tough feeling like you have no choice. (I assume that carpooling isn't an option, or getting a family member/friend to drive you?). I hope you can stay healthy and safe.

 

[Chaz1]

A tough read, frustrating to see what you are (trying to) coping with, I so wish I had an answer or guidance but I don’t…

Dif parts of the globe handle it ALL so dif (real health care or not, grrr and some and some more), breaks my heart Andrew...I appreciate your honesty, you present some real facts on you living with E on your territory, I don’t like it.

 

[nicholas:)]

Andrew, I mean this most kindly, but you don't have a choice. I lost my job because I had a heart attack and suffered depression and still suffer depression. I had to give in my licence because of epilepsy. I have to live off of benefits and I cannot afford heating in the Winter - I wear layers upon layers of clothing and still I'm cold. Luxuries are a thing of the past - I even go without food to buy toiletries and cleaning materials. Life is tough but this is how it has to be for me at the moment. I don't feel safe on my own two feet let alone behind the wheel of a car.

I'm not unhappy. I still laugh. Life goes on. I hope things will someday improve for me and you. I wish you well.

 

[triller]

In a perfect world, people would not have to drive if they couldn't. They could get help in their daily lives. This isn't a perfect world and we have to do what we can to survive. If this gentlemen gave up his job he would also have no health insurance, so his health would suffer long term.
Now to address points that Silat and others have made.
1. The person with TC's should not drive, but their are no laws on the earth that could stop him if he chooses to drive, as to the drunks and such even if their licenses are taken the majority will still be drinking and driving. Short jail terms and fines also don't stop them.
2. In the United States as far as I know the only way to get a bus pass is if you are homeless or just out of jail or can't work at all. Alot of us can't take a bus because there is no bus line to get us to work ( more and more bus services are being cut for monetary reasons). Alot of us can not afford to find a place to rent for the days of the week that we work. Or can't give up 25 years with one employer.
I believe in open discussion and opposing opinions which can help everyone come together and find a middle ground.

 

[nicholas:)]

Triller, you say that there are no laws to stop someone from driving, but there are.
In the UK visit the Government's DVLA website.

 

[AndrewIrish]

Andrew, I feel for you, it's got to be tough feeling like you have no choice. (I assume that carpooling isn't an option, or getting a family member/friend to drive you?). I hope you can stay healthy and safe.

I wish it were but there's no one who works anywhere even remotely close to my area and neck of the woofd. And yea, no way to get someone to drive for me - my wife works the same schedule as I do and we only have one car. The only other option we have here is more being dropped off ridiculously early to work, staying very late and causing a lot of extra money to be spent double and backtracking. So much so to the point that'd it be ridiculous to do.

 

[nicholas:)]

"General rules

The laws in all 50 states restrict driver's licenses for persons with active seizures that are not controlled by medication and establish rules regarding when and how a license may be acquired. The usual requirements necessitate that a person be seizure-free for a specified period of time, commonly six months, but increasingly three months or more, and have a physician's statement confirming that the individual's seizures are controlled and that if the person is licensed to drive, he or she will not present an unreasonable risk to public safety.

The laws of the state you live in, not your doctor, decide whether or not you have the right to drive. Your doctor should be able to tell you what the current laws are and whether you meet the criteria for driving.

Before getting a license, you may have to provide proof from your doctor that you are receiving treatment and that the treatment has brought your seizures under control. (Remember, too, that some drugs used to control epilepsy may make you drowsy. If you have just started a new drug, avoid driving until you know how the drug will affect you.)"

 

[tinathesingergirl]

So Andrew, Is there any way possible that your significant other can drive you or pick you up? just trying to think of options for you for your situation. Or are their children/school/childcare schedules that prevent this from happening? Do you have other family members nearby that could perhaps help you out with this.If you have enough people to help you- Maybe even with one way transportation so it would not cost so much you could reimburse with gas money. Andrew I am just brainstorming here hoping that the voice of the Almighty just gives us a God breeze and the right answer for you. I really want you to be able to provide for yourself and your loved ones Andrew I know how important that is for you. How important that is for you to still be able to contribute. I struggle with it myself. I know everyone else here does we feel you and we hear you. We are right here with you. Is there anyone else that you work with that is also crossing the state line near you? maybe you can get a ride to a nearby town and meet up if they work the same shift as you and work out a ride arrangement with that person in exchange for gas money? Just an idea then maybe you can get a ride with some else closer to you in your area. Anyway hope this helps.

Tina

 

[Cordero]

I guess you have to ask yourself what's more important to you your freedom or risking the safety of another person. I've never had a liscense. I know what it's like being homebound. It's miserable but that is much better than being on the streets risking the lives of other people including my own children's. It's your decision.

 

[Cordero]

Why are you the bread winner? Can your partner work? What about government assistance? In California we have Dial-a-Ride. Another thing to consider is that if you drove and got into an accident you'd have to face medical bills, vehicle repairs, a possible law suit, and perhaps even arrested for driving knowing that your seizures are uncontrolled. Sorry for being so harsh buts it's the truth.

 

[momof3boys]

someone whose never had a seizure in their live absolutely runs the risk as well of having a seizure out of the blue, of falling asleep at the wheel or a thousand other scenarios which end up in tragedy

Yes, anyone who hasnt had a seizure can get behind a wheel and have a seizure too. But when you take a person who is being put on seizure medication due to having seizures, and they are having huge seizures, grand mal seizure, or tonic clonic seizures (Both are the same) their chances for having a seizure while driving are very much higher than a person hasnt had a seizure before in their life. Just knowing that you have seizures, and even if you feel fine, at any moment while driving, it takes seconds to have a seizure and the outcome of it could be tragic. Last year after having my first VEEG, my doctor took me off all medications, put me back on one. Told me to wait a couple of weeks before driving. Now for me, hearing those words come out of his mouth shocked me. Here I was for five days with no medications, having seizures and he told me to wait only two weeks before getting behind a wheel again. To me, that was way too soon. I was still having break through seizures after being released from the VEEG, because my level of medication wasnt high enough. My gut was telling me not to get behind the wheel at all. I went for two months without driving. 6 weeks longer than my doctor said to go. Why I did it? Because I knew I wasnt ready. I knew even though there were days I felt fine, I couldnt risk getting behind the wheel thinking of what would happen if I did drive and have a seizure. Ive had two very close relatives die almost ten years ago. It wasnt due to a person having a seizure, but they were in their car and on the road when they were killed. That person that killed them walked away with no injuries. To this day, he cant live with himself. Knowing if he wasnt on the road, those two special people would be alive today. I wouldnt dare want to live that way at all. I know its hard in life, but for me, there is no way I would even consider getting behind the wheel knowing I feel ok that day. Im a great driver too. Ive had no tickets at all in my lifetime. But I know I wont risk killing someone. I couldnt live with myself.

 

[Cordero]

You could probably get social security and try to live off your wife's income. I've gotten social security before to where they would take social security from my previous job. There was this other program that Social Security had to where they would take out money from my husband's income but when he got a raise we no longer qualified. Maybe something to check into.

 

[julie wishes]

Best answer seems to be find someone who can drive you. If its not your wife, then maybe a college student or a church member. College students always need extra cash. I know it is an extra expense. Maybe you will only need to do this short term until you get your meds adjusted. Just saying, if you lie and keep it, try not to drive. There may be an alternative that you havent thought of that is only needed short term.

I feel your pain. Mine is just beginning. I'm sure they will be asking for my license soon and I know I'm going to be pissed as heck that I have to concede to this reality. Only difference is I don't have the travel issues you are facing. I wish I had the answers for you. Thank you for sharing though, because it is helpful to us all to hear your plight and read these answers. You have been honest. I still think you know in your heart what to do.