Coping With Epilepsy EEG Institute
10% off neurofeedback training for CWE members - Woodland Hills, CA
Neurofeedback Partner - Free Advertisement
 

Go Back   Epilepsy Forum > Peer Support > The Kitchen



Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #161  
Old 02-01-2010, 09:33 PM
Venerable Voice of CWE
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, Washington
Posts: 1,914
Thanks: 498
Thanked 230 Times in 165 Posts
Ya know, I reread this and it sounds really blunt and that's the way I am sometimes. What I should of said is that I really don't like this particular subject because I don't know much about it. And I get a lot of people who don't know about my sons illnesses, so if he starts throwing a fit in public I have had people tell me how to raise him to calling my son names. And I know that all I need to do is say I love you and put my arms around him and then the others walk away quietly. Its just something that I think the professionals should deal with. I love you all and I hope I did not offend anyone.
  #162  
Old 02-02-2010, 05:07 AM
Cinnabar's Avatar
Venerable Voice of CWE
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island , New York
Posts: 2,482
Thanks: 1,853
Thanked 1,872 Times in 967 Posts
I understand completely. I am sorry you have to go through this with your son. But it sounds like you have a very close bond. And this is the most important thing for you both. And you offended no one. You just helped us to understand you better. Love and Peace to both you and your son.
__________________
"I'm not only my spirit but my body, and who can decide how much I, my individual self, am conditioned by the accident of my body? Would Byron have been Byron but for his club foot, or Dostoyevsky Dostoyevsky without his epilepsy" Somerset Maugham

The Writer's Cafe'
http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f44/
Temporal Lobe Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDrV...eature=related
  #163  
Old 02-05-2010, 12:23 AM
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa Bay Region, FL
Posts: 3,452
Thanks: 28
Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by stilldancing_98 View Post:
Ya know, I reread this and it sounds really blunt and that's the way I am sometimes. What I should of said is that I really don't like this particular subject because I don't know much about it. And I get a lot of people who don't know about my sons illnesses, so if he starts throwing a fit in public I have had people tell me how to raise him to calling my son names. And I know that all I need to do is say I love you and put my arms around him and then the others walk away quietly. Its just something that I think the professionals should deal with. I love you all and I hope I did not offend anyone.
You are not alone with this, especially those folks who have children
with Autism and believe it or not - it's unreal how many people have
picked up their cell phones to "report" child abuse because of the
behavior not being aware of the child's own medical condition at
all - and mind you, the torture of the parent or parents having to
go through to explain it all, especially to the Law Enforcement is
absurd. Some folks just won't mind their own business and are just
flat-out too cell phone finger happy on the dial!

However, my post has nothing to do with such individuals with this
type of medical conditions whatsoever, so no need to say "I'm out"
when you're in!

)

That itself is a who different picture on a whole different page as
well as with other medical disorders and conditions. That is totally
entirely a different subject.

But you have all my sympathies and ((((((((( hugs )))))))))))
for you have the love and strength to endure with a child such
as this and yet, you are one special parent!

  #164  
Old 02-05-2010, 07:43 AM
Rae1889's Avatar
Venerable Voice of CWE
Recent Blog: Update
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada (a.k.a The Land Of Endless Snow!)
Posts: 2,651
Thanks: 705
Thanked 475 Times in 320 Posts
Send a message via MSN to Rae1889 Send a message via Yahoo to Rae1889 Send a message via Skype™ to Rae1889
I'm one of those people who will call. I guess I'd rather be safe then sorry. But it depends on your definition of child abuse.

I get that people need to discipline their kids, and sometimes when the child acts up, that needs to be in public. As embarrassing as that is for both child, parent, and by standers. But when someone is DRAGGING their child by the arm relentlessly, while the child tries to pull away, is child abuse. Stop pulling and let the child sit. Then talk to them for a bit until they are ready to keep walking. You could easily dislocate an arm by pulling. You may not think your pulling hard, but if the child tugs back too hard and fast, then that's the result.

Also, people who continue to smack their kids upside the head several times, picking them up by the back collar of their shirt, to haul off and hit them again, is also abuse. I used to work in a children store and on more than one occasion I have had to call security on parents like this. And sadly, its usually the mother. Not the father. So yes I would Call for those.

But if a kid is acting out, screaming and yelling, and the mum or dad is having trouble calming them down and can discipline them without resorting to hitting then I'd have no problem. I believe in spankings. I was spanked, and most kids my age were spanked and the majority of us turned out fine. Because we got it through our thick skulls that we should never do what we did. And then never did it again. But leave the spanking at home, not in the public eye.
__________________
FALL SEVEN TIMES, STAND UP EIGHT- JAPANESE PROVERB
THEY SAY YOU CAN'T DIVIDE ANYTHING BY ZERO. IF YOU DIVIDE SOMETHING BY ZERO, YOU GET INFINITY. AND THE ONLY THING THAT IS INFINITE IS LOVE.
NEVER LOOK DOWN ON SOMEONE UNLESS YOU ARE HELPING THEM UP.
  #165  
Old 02-05-2010, 05:52 PM
Venerable Voice of CWE
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, Washington
Posts: 1,914
Thanks: 498
Thanked 230 Times in 165 Posts
I don't spank my child because that simply would not work. My son has violent behaviors and sometimes I have to drag him out of the stores. If I don't it becomes a yelling battle. I pick him up and take him out side. I do what is needed to do. He knows I love him. And he won't sit. Thank you so much for understanding.And I love you all so much. I don't think you understand. You are all like my family.Thank you all.
  #166  
Old 02-06-2010, 04:30 AM
Cinnabar's Avatar
Venerable Voice of CWE
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island , New York
Posts: 2,482
Thanks: 1,853
Thanked 1,872 Times in 967 Posts
stilldancing and Rae: You are both speaking of a very important topic which is becoming more and more debatable. How do we disipline our children? We wonder what we should do with our own child when he/she acts out? We see mothers hit their child in public, we hear about mothers being sent to jail for harming and/or neglecting their children in the most unimaginable ways. Something we hear about all to often in the news. In this thread however where talking about a very partcicular form of child abuse, Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome (MBPS). And I'll let this excerpt from an article explain it.
Quote :
Munchausen by proxy syndrome (MBPS) is a relatively uncommon condition that involves the exaggeration or fabrication of illnesses or symptoms by a primary caretaker. One of the most harmful forms of child abuse, MBPS was named after Baron von Munchausen, an 18th-century German dignitary known for telling outlandish stories.

About MBPS
In MBPS, an individual — usually a mother — deliberately makes another person (most often his or her own preschool child) sick or convinces others that the person is sick. The parent or caregiver misleads others into thinking that the child has medical problems by lying and reporting fictitious episodes. He or she may exaggerate, fabricate, or induce symptoms. As a result, doctors usually order tests, try different types of medications, and may even hospitalize the child or perform surgery to determine the cause.
This is how clever the mothers are. Not your average everyday mother who hits her kid!

Quote :
A perplexing aspect of the syndrome is the ability of the parent or caregiver to fool and manipulate doctors. Frequently, the perpetrator is familiar with the medical profession and is very good at fooling the doctors. Even the most experienced doctors can miss the meaning of the inconsistencies in the child's symptoms
"All of these mothers are "very" smart and sneaky and can cause their children death.

If you go on the net you'll find endless articles about the Syndrome. It's a crime that almost always goes undetected. It's beyond my comprehension how a mother can derive any delight in hurting her child this way. Often it's about the mother getting attention. "Oh my poor child. See how good I care for him/her and see what I have to go through?" Very sick women with whom I have no sympathy for. But a topic worth discussing.



http://kidshealth.org/parent/general...unchausen.html
__________________
"I'm not only my spirit but my body, and who can decide how much I, my individual self, am conditioned by the accident of my body? Would Byron have been Byron but for his club foot, or Dostoyevsky Dostoyevsky without his epilepsy" Somerset Maugham

The Writer's Cafe'
http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f44/
Temporal Lobe Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDrV...eature=related

Last edited by Cinnabar; 02-06-2010 at 05:25 AM.
  #167  
Old 02-06-2010, 09:42 AM
Cint's Avatar
CWE Supporter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 5,507
Thanks: 1,153
Thanked 3,165 Times in 2,056 Posts
Originally Posted by Rae1889 View Post:
But if a kid is acting out, screaming and yelling, and the mum or dad is having trouble calming them down and can discipline them without resorting to hitting then I'd have no problem. I believe in spankings. I was spanked, and most kids my age were spanked and the majority of us turned out fine. Because we got it through our thick skulls that we should never do what we did. And then never did it again. But leave the spanking at home, not in the public eye.
So what is the difference between spanking and hitting? My son was very strong-willed and hyper when he was growing up and there was no way I could spank him without it turning into hitting because he would not stay still long enough. I would have been accused of child abuse. I don't believe in spanking. IMO, it only teaches children to be violent.

On to something else:

Originally posted by Cinnabar:
Quote :
This is how clever the mothers are. Not your average everyday mother who hits her kid!

]Quote :
A perplexing aspect of the syndrome is the ability of the parent or caregiver to fool and manipulate doctors. Frequently, the perpetrator is familiar with the medical profession and is very good at fooling the doctors. Even the most experienced doctors can miss the meaning of the inconsistencies in the child's symptoms
On one of my appointments to see my epileptologist back in the 90's, I was reading a book about a woman with Munchausen. My dr. saw it and told me that she suspected one of her patients had the same thing because this patient was trying to cause seizures for her child. But this doctor was beginning to see the signs and the inconsistencies of the lady's story, although the woman apparently had been in the medical profession. Very interesting.
__________________
"The Golden Rule is that there are no golden rules."
~George Bernard Shaw
The Following User Says Thank You to Cint For This Useful Post:
stilldancing_98 (02-06-2010)
  #168  
Old 02-06-2010, 10:20 AM
Cinnabar's Avatar
Venerable Voice of CWE
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island , New York
Posts: 2,482
Thanks: 1,853
Thanked 1,872 Times in 967 Posts
Many of these women are drawn to the medical profession for the very reason to equip themselves with the varied in order to manipulate doctors into believing them. It's like college for them. A study at the expense of their children.
__________________
"I'm not only my spirit but my body, and who can decide how much I, my individual self, am conditioned by the accident of my body? Would Byron have been Byron but for his club foot, or Dostoyevsky Dostoyevsky without his epilepsy" Somerset Maugham

The Writer's Cafe'
http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f44/
Temporal Lobe Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDrV...eature=related
  #169  
Old 02-06-2010, 04:29 PM
Ruth's Avatar
Venerable Voice of CWE
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 3,025
Thanks: 2,166
Thanked 626 Times in 486 Posts
In my case, when my children were growing up: I never hit them. Once a week we would read Bible stories and I would discipline my children by disussing and talking it out. That is when they were old enough to discuss.

Sometimes, I did have to spank my children. The laws changes in CA before my last child was born. It became against the law to even spank a child. That became child abuse. The authorieties when overboard on these laws.

I had to be real careful in raising my last child. He was slow in learning how to speak. I was accused of child abuse and had to get an attorney to keep my child from being taken away from me. My attorney saw my baby and laughed and said that I had a very healthy baby.

I never abused my children. I never spanked any of them in public. To me that is child abuse, spanking in public.
__________________
It is how we live in the present that determines how we live in the future. - quote unknown
  #170  
Old 02-06-2010, 06:46 PM
Venerable Voice of CWE
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, Washington
Posts: 1,914
Thanks: 498
Thanked 230 Times in 165 Posts
Originally Posted by Ruth View Post:
In my case, when my children were growing up: I never hit them. Once a week we would read Bible stories and I would discipline my children by disussing and talking it out. That is when they were old enough to discuss.

Sometimes, I did have to spank my children. The laws changes in CA before my last child was born. It became against the law to even spank a child. That became child abuse. The authorieties when overboard on these laws.

I had to be real careful in raising my last child. He was slow in learning how to speak. I was accused of child abuse and had to get an attorney to keep my child from being taken away from me. My attorney saw my baby and laughed and said that I had a very healthy baby.

I never abused my children. I never spanked any of them in public. To me that is child abuse, spanking in public.
One time I took Alex, my boy, to my Dr. in Seattle with me, and he just smacked me on the face. Now anybody else would of thought that. But he has a disorder where he gets angry for no aparent reason. I walked away and took his hand first.I was so embarrassed. It's when it all first started. But like what Cint went through with her son. I am going through with mine.And I just don't spank. Because it does turn into a hitting match. I want him to think about what he is doing. Plus he is special ed, epilepsy, and there is so much more. I have had to hold him down. Now, as an on looker would you know that?
  #171  
Old 02-06-2010, 07:40 PM
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa Bay Region, FL
Posts: 3,452
Thanks: 28
Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts

IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ before anyone goes further ...


Originally Posted by stilldancing_98 View Post:
One time I took Alex, my boy, to my Dr. in Seattle with me, and he just smacked me on the face. Now anybody else would of thought that. But he has a disorder where he gets angry for no aparent reason. I walked away and took his hand first.I was so embarrassed. It's when it all first started. But like what Cint went through with her son. I am going through with mine.And I just don't spank. Because it does turn into a hitting match. I want him to think about what he is doing. Plus he is special ed, epilepsy, and there is so much more. I have had to hold him down. Now, as an on looker would you know that?
It's not just that issue there - there's a huge disorder and it's turning
into two different topics here; totally unrelated to the thread itself.

One is a neurological medical condition itself - like what Therese and
Cindy has to deal with.

The other is a psychological issue - which is the thread which is
pertaining to.


I would very much would like to see this topic posted on its own
thread pertaining to this neurological issue because it is very
valid and of concern ... because due to lack of public awareness.
I am going to see if Bernard can "cut" this thread and move it
to a thread of its own and keeping this thread to where it
belongs because we are beginning to have two topics in here
where I am beginning to see that it is going to create confusions.

I do not wish to have nor create any confusion, because as
implied - BOTH ARE VALID TOPICS - but both are very different
issues!

Does everyone agree? Let's hold off the conversation while I
get a hold of Bernard to see if he can split this and move this
topic away from this one so that we can have it moved into
the Parents Division or wherever Bernard feels it should be -
unless you want to send a PM to him as to where you would
like to see this thread located at - but honestly, I feel that
this belongs in the Parenting Department.
  #172  
Old 02-06-2010, 07:58 PM
Cinnabar's Avatar
Venerable Voice of CWE
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island , New York
Posts: 2,482
Thanks: 1,853
Thanked 1,872 Times in 967 Posts
Originally Posted by Brain :
Let's hold off the conversation while I
get a hold of Bernard to see if he can split this and move this
topic away from this one so that we can have it moved into
the Parents Division or wherever Bernard feels it should be
Enough said! Thank you Brain and will be awaiting the outcome. Until otherwise notified, no one is to add to this thread. Case closed just for now.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________
"I'm not only my spirit but my body, and who can decide how much I, my individual self, am conditioned by the accident of my body? Would Byron have been Byron but for his club foot, or Dostoyevsky Dostoyevsky without his epilepsy" Somerset Maugham

The Writer's Cafe'
http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f44/
Temporal Lobe Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDrV...eature=related

Last edited by Cinnabar; 02-06-2010 at 08:01 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Cinnabar For This Useful Post:
brain (02-06-2010)
  #173  
Old 02-06-2010, 08:12 PM
Venerable Voice of CWE
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, Washington
Posts: 1,914
Thanks: 498
Thanked 230 Times in 165 Posts
I didn't mean to change every thing. Sorry guys. But I think it would be better to be 2 different links. Or we can just drop mine. I don't care. sssssssssssssssssorry.
  #174  
Old 02-06-2010, 08:15 PM
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa Bay Region, FL
Posts: 3,452
Thanks: 28
Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts
No need to drop yours at all, you have a valid point
and a valid topic! No need to apologize, these things happen
once in awhile - no big deal!



  #175  
Old 02-07-2010, 12:51 PM
Cint's Avatar
CWE Supporter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 5,507
Thanks: 1,153
Thanked 3,165 Times in 2,056 Posts
I will hold off until further notice. I agree, two different threads because we have two valid points of discussion.
__________________
"The Golden Rule is that there are no golden rules."
~George Bernard Shaw
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cint For This Useful Post:
brain (02-07-2010), Cinnabar (02-07-2010)
  #176  
Old 02-08-2010, 07:06 AM
Bernard's Avatar
Your Host
Recent Blog: Oh poop
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 6,524
Thanks: 775
Thanked 2,298 Times in 820 Posts
I originally put this topic in the Kitchen (the forum's busiest room at the time) as a reminder to all CWE members that you never know who or what you are dealing with on the internet - not to get too emotionally involved with another member's story.

Trying to figure out how to split this thread and keep conversations cohesive sounds like an attempt at untying the Gordian knot - not going to happen. I think this thread has served it's original purpose, so I'm going to close/lock it up.

You are all welcome to start new threads in the Nursery or Padded Room or wherever to follow up on related tangents. I'd suggest including a link to this thread (or a post within it) for reference.
__________________
New to CWE? I suggest reading the proactive prescription and epilepsy 101 threads. Also check out this chart of alternative epilepsy treatments and this page on EEG Neurofeedback. More great stuff can be found in the list of the best forum threads.

Would you like to help support this forum?
The Following User Says Thank You to Bernard For This Useful Post:
Ruth (02-08-2010)
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2005 Measuring Up. ALL rights reserved.