need some advice guys *diagnosis complications*

Welcome to the Coping With Epilepsy Forums

Welcome to the Coping With Epilepsy forums - a peer support community for folks dealing (directly or indirectly) with seizure disorders. You can visit the forum page to see the list of forum nodes (categories/rooms) for topics.

Please have a look around and if you like what you see, please consider registering an account and joining the discussions. When you register an account and log in, you may enjoy additional benefits including no ads, access to members only (ie. private) forum nodes and more. Registering an account is free - you have nothing to lose!

jayde-101

Stalwart
Messages
451
Reaction score
0
Points
86
hi everyone
Ive just got back feom a 3week stay at a epilepsy center... I was under a general neurologist and they stripped my keppra off I about 4 days then stopped my clobazam and did ambulatory eeg which they said as far as I know was ok ...

They then took my diagnosis of epilepsy away and said they are non epileptic seizures.

Ive been referred to a pyschologist and psychiatrist and a psychotherapist . But the day becore discharge put me back on the clobazam

Now my seizures are worse and more frequent and my legs keep giving way on me ... when I have a seizure im unconscious I am not aware of my surroundings and sometimes badly injure myself .

So now im left thinking could they have got it wrong because they were so hooked up with my anixety issues *which I got after the seizures started* ...I feel so very confused and even more so the fact they stuck me back on my clobazam ...knowing that aed's dont work for non epileptic seizures

Views and opinions much appreciated thabks
Jayde x
 
Jayde, I wish I had some views and opinions. I don't. All I know if that my heart went into my throat when I read your message and I want you to know that I am with you and will be thinking of you -- that means praying. It really is amazing that at some point all this will be in the past -- really! My warmest regards, Bidwell
 
If you google Cobazam, you'll see that it is also used for anxiety, not just seizures. So maybe the Dr.'s are hoping that something that works as anti-seizure and anti-anxiety both would work for you. The psychiatrist will do an evaluation also, and from that can help in the diagnostic process by determining if "you fit the profile", so to speak, of someone with PNES. It is possible you don't, and then he/she will return you to the hands of the neurologist. I hope a seizure specialist is involved in your care as well.
 
Jayde, I read your post last night and really empathised with you but I really didn't know what to say. Now I have a better idea of what I would do in your situation. First of all, I must add that I'm not completely anti the idea of psychogenic seizures, and if you do have some psychogenic seizures, then psychiatric and psychological support would be really helpful. HOWEVER:

After a year of seizures, a three week EEG seems, to me, an insufficient reason to declare that you don't have epileptic seizures.

Stuff I'm worried about:
-1) I wrote an article about the inaccuracy of psych diagnoses years ago based on a bunch of studies and what I found out is that --- actually, it's easier to just quote some of the article:

"...misdiagnosis. The same thing frequently happens with other psychological illnesses: Sheldon’s lawyer claimed when commenting about the case that his company “received dozens of cases [annually] where someone is saddled with treatment which is clearly inappropriate for their needs. Unfortunately, once a psychiatrist has formed a diagnosis it can be extremely difficult to get it reviewed.”

It is widely stated by mental health professionals themselves that this situation not only occurs but prevails in psychiatry."
"Patients have been seen to pick up the symptoms of psychological illnesses they don’t have in hospital situations, via research or through communicating with other people with the diagnosed disorder via website forums and chat rooms. This can happen when a patient has another psychological condition and, in search of coping skills for the pain, will copy those around her and learn the comforting effects of negative behaviors associated with other illnesses. Yet despite its devastating consequences, the unreliability of psychiatric diagnosis has been a sore point in the industry for decades. "
"In 1973, sociologist Rosenhan conducted a study in which he sent healthy people to a psychiatric hospital telling them to claim they were hearing a voice say “thud”’ “hollow”’ or “empty”. No other symptoms existed in the ‘patients’. The results were that every one of them was admitted into hospital and all but one was diagnosed as being schizophrenic. The final patient was diagnosed with manic depression. Rosenhan then told another hospital he was going to conduct the same study with their establishment but did not have any pseudo patients asking for admission. The results were that during the following three months 10% of actual patients were suspected by two or more staff members to be healthy individuals. "

"...- since then the DSM IV, which only reinforces III, has been published and mental health care workers are questioning more than ever the emphasis placed on diagnosis and the inaccuracy of the manual itself. (It’s been likened to a Chinese set menu from which one ticks off a certain number of dishes from one section and a certain number from another until you have enough to make up a meal.)
The trouble is that health workers are as liable to fall prey to the weight of first impressions as we are – and studies show that most form a diagnosis mentally within three minutes of meeting a patient, rarely swaying from those first impressions and even known previous diagnoses made by other doctors. Patients who consult psychiatrists with a letter citing a previous doctor’s diagnosis are more likely to be saddled with the previous doctor’s diagnosis along with a second diagnosis made by the new doctor. Many psychiatrists follow their diagnoses with the fifteen minute consultation, where patients simply show face in order to fetch a new prescription whereas, in order to get a large-picture view of the patient, frequent long length consults are required and recommended by the DSM IV. "

I, myself, tend to suffer from psychogenic symptoms a lot and fortunately my epilepsy diagnosis has been confirmed with ambulatory EEG and following EEGs. But I do have a psychiatrist who looks after me and she's explained how my physical symptoms must be taken care of to arrive at a conclusion that they're psychogenic: FIRST I must have all the physical diagnostic tests needed and only if ALL come up negative can we consider psychogenic problems. This must happen every single time there's a suspicion that I might have psychogenic symptoms despite the fact that we know I do have the psychogenic issue.

Since you've been sent to these psych workers under the recommendation of your neuro, you'll presumably be going to all of them with a letter saying that you have psychogenic seizures, which increases the odds that all of those psych workers will saddle you with that diagnosis. It isn't enough for your neuro to have done one three week EEG. I mean, I've done a two week ambulatory that showed no epileptic activity, and I've done a three day one that did, so your one ambulatory is not enough. They must spend far more time on other diagnostic tests to fully rule out epilepsy.

So after all that I've said, the main point I have been trying to get to is that in your position, I would go to another neuro or, better, a new epileptologist, WITHOUT your previous docs' letters and opinions, and request a reassessment to diagnose you with or without epilepsy.
 
Thanks everyone its just very frustrating and so very complicated I really appreciate your feedback and ill take all advice given :)

And ill just hope things work out xx
 
Aww that sux jayde :(

I agree with kirsten that a 3 week test doesn't seem worth reversing a diagnosis over.

It's amazing how different various doctors' perceptions can be, so yeah, +1 for a 2nd/3rd opinion...
 
Thanks ...im averaging 3-4 seizures a day now so its making me extremely tired its like im getting full body workouts :-( ...
I'll see how things go
 
Many neurologists seem to forget that: An abnormal EEG can confirm an epilepsy diagnosis, but a normal EEG cannot rule one out. The negative EEG results should not be used to override the epilepsy diagnosis, esp. if A. Your symptoms match up with those typical for epilepsy, and B. Your symptoms respond to anti-seizure meds.

While the psych docs may be helpful in ruling non-psychogenic seizures in or out, in the meantime you're left to suffer from what may be a frustrating misdiagnosis. I hope that you have the option of seeing a different neurologist to revisit the epilepsy diagnosis, especially if your current one is unwilling to do so. In the meantime, try and keep detailed notes about your symptoms, including how they have rebounded since you were taken off of Keppra. I hope you can get some relief soon.
 
Here's what I'm a bit confused about, your signature says that you have simple partials, complex partials and generalized tonic-clonics. From what I understand psychogenic seizures are look generalized tonic-clonics and but what gives the difference away is a Video EEG and patients with psychogenic seizures often tend to close their eyes whereas during epileptic seizures the eyes are often open.

But people that have psychogenic seizures don't have simple partials and complex partials. If you have simple partials and complex partials that don't generalize I think that would suggest that you are probably having epileptic and non-epileptic seizures.

Also, if you had fewer or no seizures while on Keppra than before starting it that would suggest you were having epileptic and pseudo-seizures.

Try to find a neuropsychiatrist for the evaluation for pseudo-seizures, I think in your case the addition training and education will be worth it, and it might be worth seeking an opinion from a neurologist who's got a good background in clinical neurophysiology.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom