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Cinnabar

Cinnabar

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I have been suffering from chronic insomnia and am wondering if it could be Epilepsy related. My psychiatrist has prescribed meds which could knock out a horse but still there's no reprieve. I don't know how much more of this I can take. If it helps I have Temporal Lobe Epilespy. Thank you.
 
Cinnabar, I have TLE too. I'm not too sure I can help but I can tell you my experience. For me, in the old days before I had my psychiatrist, docs always gave me benzos and sleeping pills for insomnia and even the strongest of the strong didn't work. Then my psych told me I had bipolar symptoms with hypomania (a milder form of mania) that were from the TLE. She took me off all the benzos and sleeping pills and put me on mood stabilisers, which worked pretty well but not 100%, so now I'm taking seroquel, which works like a charm. I do take it at night but instead of putting me to sleep, it keeps the hypomania and mixed episodes (which can manifest as anxiety) away so that I can just sleep naturally.
 
Hey, hey, how cool is that? I wrote T L E and it changed it automatically to temporal lobe epilepsy. Smart website.
 
Hi cinnabar. I'm sorry to hear about your not sleeping. I don't have any advice on insomnia but I do have a sleep apnea. Sleep disorders really suck. :(

Hope we both catch decent zzzzzzzzz's soon. **hugs**
 
Same thing here--TLE, chronic insomnia, impervious to most sleep aids, made worse (to add salt to the wound) by some AEDs. Two things that HAVE helped have been Trazadone (an antidepressant also prescribed for sleep but I use sparingly in case it contributes to seizures) and a new AED, Lamictal, which helped in my first 5 days. Lamictal is a mood stabilizer too, so that might add to what Kirsten was saying. I'm at a very low introductory dose so no saying if that will continue to help. Good luck, I so know how frustrating this is.
 
Insomnia is about the worst thing ever. I used to take 2-3 hours to fall asleep at night, in spite of doing all the "sleep hygiene" stuff. Several years ago my regular doc said it seemed to him that I was having anxiety (I hadn't told him about the sleep stuff. He just thought I needed an anti-anxiety med for some life-stuff that was going on. He prescribed Xanax, and after about a week I discovered it put me to sleep really fast. Ever since then I take 1/2 of a tablet (a pretty small dose) about 15 minutes before going to bed and I go to sleep very quickly. It's great and I have never built up a tolerance to it or needed more. There have been a handful of nights when I thought I had taken it and was unable to fall asleep. WHen I got up to check my med box it turned out I had forgotten, which tells me it's not a placebo effect. It has not seemed to have any negative side-effects at all. You might check with your doc about Xanax.

Lindsay, Lamictal isn't that new. It was FDA approved in 1994 so it's been about 20 years now. I've been taking it for probably 15ish. The extended release form was approved in 2009, so it's more recent.
 
Thank you all. I'd address you individually but am just too tired now. I do have Bi-Polar Disorder and am on Lamictal. I'm on an anit-depressant which I guess is a mood stablizer? Correct me if I'm wrong. A friend took seroquel. I forget why but he got off it. My doctor should be getting back to me today so I'll bring it up. I've been on Trazadone. I forget why I could not tolerate it. Forgetting everything - I'm so spaced out....
 
Hi Laurie,

I'm sorry your sleep hasn't improved since the last time I heard from you. Temporal lobe Epilepsy does play a part in insomnia, according to this:

http://professionals.epilepsy.com/wi/print_section.php?section=sleep

EFFECTS OF AEDS ON SLEEP

~Author: BA Malow and BV Vaughn

Another reason that patients with epilepsy are at risk for sleep disorders is that treatment with antiepileptic drugs (AEDs) may directly contribute to daytime sleepiness or insomnia, or may exacerbate underlying sleep disorders like obstructive sleep apnea. On the other hand, these drugs may also improve sleep organization.


~Phenobarbital shortens sleep latency and decreases the number of arousals in patients with epilepsy.

~Benzodiazepines decrease time to sleep onset, increase the amount of NREM stage 2 sleep, decrease the quantity and the amplitude of delta (stages 3 and 4) NREM sleep, decrease the amount of REM sleep, prolong REM sleep latency, and decrease the number and duration of awakenings and arousals.

~Phenytoin increases the amount of delta NREM sleep subacutely (after 4–6 weeks of treatment) in patients with epilepsy, but the only chronic effect is shortened sleep latency.

~Ethosuximide decreases delta sleep and increases stage 1 NREM sleep in epilepsy patients.

~Valproic acid, when given in high doses (1,000 mg) to healthy subjects, decreased REM activity and increased delta activity with period analysis, but visual-analyzed data did not show a statistically significant difference.

~Carbamazepine decreased sleep fragmentation, increased delta NREM sleep, and increased total sleep time when used to treat subjects with bipolar disease. 16 Newly diagnosed patients with epilepsy had an improvement in the fragmentation of their sleep owing to awakenings, after treatment for 1 month. Paradoxically, in one report, initiation of controlled-release carbamazepine in epilepsy patients provoked a reduction and fragmentation of REM sleep and an increase in the number of sleep stage shifts. These effects were almost completely reversed after 1 month of treatment, however, and no significant difference was noted between the baseline condition and long-term follow-up.

~Felbamate had stimulantlike effects in patients with epilepsy who took it as part of a 2-week randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial, followed by open felbamate monotherapy. Another study of the side effects of felbamate reported insomnia in 25% of 60 epilepsy patients.19 Psychiatric rating scales demonstrated stimulantlike effects (e.g., insomnia, anorexia, and anxiety) in both acute and chronic phases of treatment.

~*Lamotrigine (Lamictal) can also cause insomnia. Among 109 patients taking lamotrigine, 7 (6.4%) had insomnia requiring a change in therapy. The insomnia appeared to be dose-dependent. In contrast, a polysomnographic study of lamotrigine in 7 subjects with epilepsy showed no effect on total sleep time, sleep efficiency, sleep latency or REM latency, or the percentage of time spent in NREM sleep stages. Stage shifts and arousal indices were reduced and the percentage of REM was increased.

The effects of the more recently introduced AEDs on sleep in epilepsy patients await further investigations. With the large number of AED choices currently available and with additional AEDs in clinical testing, clinicians may base their AED choice not only on the epilepsy syndrome, but also on its effects on sleep. For example, sedating AEDs may benefit epilepsy patients with insomnia, and stimulating AEDs may benefit epilepsy patients with daytime sleepiness.

In addition to their direct pharmacologic effects on sleep, AEDs may indirectly improve sleep in the epilepsy patient through the reduction of seizures and, in some cases, interictal epileptic discharges.

Conversely, AEDs may adversely affect sleep by contributing to sleep disorders. For example, in a patient predisposed to obstructive sleep apnea, barbiturates and benzodiazepines may worsen the frequency of apneas and hypopneas by decreasing upper airway resistance or arousal mechanisms. AEDs that are associated with weight gain, such as valproate, may also worsen this condition. Avoiding these agents for patients with untreated obstructive sleep apnea may be advisable, especially if alternative AEDs are available.

Adapted from: Malow, BA, and Vaughn BV. Sleep disorder
Click to expand...

BTW, are you still taking Lamictal?
 
Some antidepressants are known for upsetting mood stability. The older ones--prozac and the rest of the family--are no good for some forms of bipolar but fine for others. The new family of antidepressants (can't remember what they're called) are fine for moods in that they don't worsen the situation and they do keep depression at bay. They don't prevent mania though. AEDs have never been enough to control my moods. I always needed stabilisers.
 
arnie said:
Insomnia is about the worst thing ever. I used to take 2-3 hours to fall asleep at night, in spite of doing all the "sleep hygiene" stuff. Several years ago my regular doc said it seemed to him that I was having anxiety (I hadn't told him about the sleep stuff. He just thought I needed an anti-anxiety med for some life-stuff that was going on. He prescribed Xanax, and after about a week I discovered it put me to sleep really fast. Ever since then I take 1/2 of a tablet (a pretty small dose) about 15 minutes before going to bed and I go to sleep very quickly. It's great and I have never built up a tolerance to it or needed more. There have been a handful of nights when I thought I had taken it and was unable to fall asleep. WHen I got up to check my med box it turned out I had forgotten, which tells me it's not a placebo effect. It has not seemed to have any negative side-effects at all. You might check with your doc about Xanax.

Lindsay, Lamictal isn't that new. It was FDA approved in 1994 so it's been about 20 years now. I've been taking it for probably 15ish. The extended release form was approved in 2009, so it's more recent.
Click to expand...

Hi Arnie, I just meant it's new to me--I just started it less than a week ago! Here's to hoping it finally stops my seizures :)
 
Thank you all, again. Arnie, I don't have trouble falling asleep. I'm out immediately but the next hour I'm wide awake. Return to sleep for maybe an hour then up again. They cycle goes on all night and have been missing my REM sleep. I used to be on a heap of Xanex then my then doctor switched me to Clonopin to which I've developed a tolerance so that doesn't do too much for me. Sure am glad you're sleeping now.

Cindy, thanks for that very informative article and I'm still on Lamictal.

Kirsten, yes some antidepressants are certainly known for upsetting mood stability. I just spoke with my doctor and she is lowering the dozage of mine.
______________________________________________________

So, yes. My doctor called me back and has lowered dozage of my anti-depressant. If this doesn't work in two days I'm to call her to discuss getting on Lithium in addition to my Lamictal.
 
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Hi C innabar,
I have Bipolar 1 (was diagnosed years before epilepsy from stroke started) which is the most severe of the Bipolars. I get extreme depression and disasterious Manias. I have been on lamictal for years because of it and I am on Lithium too (has antidepressant and mood stabilizing effects). Lithium can cause seizures but the percentage is low. My psych and nuero agreed to keep me on it. I have been on lots of ant-e's throughout the years for mood stabilization. Not a lot worked for me for that reason. However I saw my psych 2 weeks ago and he said my mood was better than he has seen in a LONG time. His words were "we should have put you on this high of mgs years ago, looks like it helps." lol Hope you find what works for you soon! :)
 
I ment to tell you I have used both Seroquel and trazadone for sleep. Seroquel kept me tired almost 24/7. The trazadone helped with my mood and sleep but I had to take 600mgs a night for it to do well for me.
 
Hi, Penny. I'm also Bi-Polar one and before diagnosis my life was in ruins. Flying sooo high not tending to the practical in my life. Lamictal has been a life saver. It's good to hear the good news about Lithium. I will keep you all posted as to how it will be working if my doctor decides to place me on it in a few days.

Last night I slept through! The first time in many months but I think it was out of pure exhaustion.
 
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I Don't have the sleep disorders like the rest of you have described but I used to have nocturnal seizures before my first resection in 08 and I would always stay up as long as I could cause i didn't want to go to sleep cause I didn't want to have seizures. Not really insomnia though. I also used to pound cups of black coffee and then go to bed in the middle of the day. The past several weeks I had realized I had been having a hard time going to bed so I was getting drunk enough to the point where the alcohol would make me pass out. I realized this was a bad thing so now I have stopped doing that. I have taken both melatonin and ativan to help me fall to sleep. I don't really like taking either since they make me become dependent to fall asleep correctly and the melatonin can really give fucked up dreams. My best friends dad recently gave me some really good dank weed to smoke before bed to help me calm my anxieties related to my job and start the sleep process. I usually only take one or two hits before I start getting sleepy. Does anyone else here take keppra and notice an increase in insomnia with it? That is primary drug for the longest time. On the other hand my body seems to switch naturally into a second shift cycle even if I have one day off. Has anyone ever tried meditating before bed? I used to do that and It used to help I would say 80% of the time. My body is really finicky. The minute I start worrying about staying up past my bed time then I just end up laying in my bed worrying how I am not going to get enough sleep and it feeds itself till the point where I'm so worked up and I end up taking the ativan.
Cheers!
Rourke
 
Hi all. I have found that meditating every day is very helpful. I meditate at mid-day around noon, but it has calmed my mind so much that i am less stressed and get to sleep better. I also take 300 mgs of Magnesium after dinner (that puts me in sleep mode) and i wake up refreshed. I have had so much trouble with meds for sleep that are so habit forming. I will never do that again. Minerals and meditation is great for me.
 
A CBT psych once told me to lie in a warm bath (without bathing) for 15 minutes directly before bed. I thought she was silly but I tried it. Amazingly effective.
 
kirsten said:
A CBT psych once told me to lie in a warm bath (without bathing) for 15 minutes directly before bed. I thought she was silly but I tried it. Amazingly effective.
Click to expand...

Not a good idea for someone with E, especially TC seizures who live by them self. I had a bad TC seizure and suffered severe burns on my way out of the bathtub, due to falling on the hot water.

http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/safety_home

Bathrooms, which have mirrors, sinks, shower doors, bathtubs, and hard floors, can be risky for people with uncontrolled seizures. Bathroom activities are generally private matters and balancing the need for both privacy and safety is important for people with seizures. For example, a teenage girl with complex partial seizures was determined to maintain her independence and remain safe while using the bathroom. She negotiated with her parents to use an "occupied" sign instead of locking the bathroom door and to sing while showering, to reassure her parents that she was safe. She also promised her Mom to always take showers instead of baths and to check the water temperature and shower drain for function before showering. A woman who had frequent grand mal seizures maintained her independence and safety by wearing a helmet while in the bathroom and always sitting down while showering. She only showered when someone was nearby who could assist if a seizure occurred.
Click to expand...

Always make sure the temp is adequate.
 
Another thing that keeps people awake before bed is all our electronic devices. Cell phones/tv/computer monitors and tablets. The bright light or no shutting off your brain before bed causes us to not unwind. It's hard sometimes because I like to watch the news before bed or just check email etc...

That warm bath sounds like a great idea to wind down for the day !!!

Sometime it takes me 2 hrs to get to sleep at night. :(
 
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