Coping With Epilepsy Brian Othmer Foundation
Free Advertisement
 

Go Back   Epilepsy Forum > Peer Support > The Kitchen



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-04-2007, 02:40 PM
Zoe's Avatar
Zoe Zoe is offline
Alternative Research Encyclopedia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kentucky-Where the Bluegrass is very green
Posts: 662
Thanks: 45
Thanked 207 Times in 109 Posts

nocturnal seizures, neurofeedback, seizures


Just some information to explore on nocturnal seizures and neurofeedback.

Originally Posted by ISNR :
Remediation of Nocturnal Seizures by EEG Biofeedback
by Jonathan Walker, M.D., Neurologist, Dallas, TX, May, 1995

Abstract of a presentation at the 1995 Annual Conference of the Society for the Study of Neuronal Regulation.

Two cases of epilepsy are presented with seizures occurring only at night.

The first case was a 34 year old woman with post-traumatic seizures dating from early childhood. Her seizures always occurred after going to bed at night, either while falling asleep (20%) 3-5 hours, or after falling asleep (80%). She would feel fatigued and confused for three days afterwards. One awake electroencephalogram (EEG) revealed spiking in the left fronto-temporal region. Quantitative EEG (QEEG) revealed an increase in absolute power of theta over the entire scalp except for the right mid-temporal region (consistent with residual effects of a closed head injury). Following sessions of EEG biofeedback (reward 12-15 Hz, reward inhibit of 7-12 Hz, and above 18 Hz), at Fz the patient experienced a marked reduction in seizure frequency and severity, as well as a disappearance of the postictal confusion and tiredness.

The second case was a 22 year old woman with post-traumatic seizures beginning at age 13, beginning with jerking in both hands and proceeding to loss of consciousness. Her original EEG revealed bilateral posterior spike and wave activity in response to 10 Hz photic stimulation. Her seizures were originally controlled on Depakote and it was discontinued at age 17. She had a psychotic break at age 19 and was placed on Haldol with recurrence of her grand mal seizures, which typically occurred early in the morning (on awakening). Her mental state and generalized seizures stabilized on Lithium and Depakote, but she continued to hear voices on going to bed at night several times per week. Training was carried out at the same parameters as first case for 46 sessions, then switched to reward 15-18 Hz for last 11 sessions. By completion of training she was off all medication, was seizure-free, hallucination-free, was no longer seeing her psychotherapist, and was no longer depressed or anxious.

Both patients have maintained their improvement for over six months.

Resolution of nocturnal seizures suggests that the effect of EEG biofeedback in reducing seizures does not completely rely on conscious brain mechanisms. The second case suggests that EEG biofeedback may play an important role in remediating psychoses associated with epilepsy.
Abstracts and Papers . . . from SNR Members and Meetings Prior to 1995 (absence. pg. 5)

More neurofeedback research links here:
http://www.eeginfo.com/research/epilepsy_main.html
__________________

Zoe

"One should never believe any experiment until it has been proven by theory."--Sir Authur Eddington

Last edited by Bernard; 07-30-2008 at 05:17 AM. Reason: clarify information and source
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Zoe For This Useful Post:
Bernard (11-24-2009)
  #2  
Old 11-05-2007, 04:45 PM
RobinN's Avatar
Super Moderator / Super Mom
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SoCA
Posts: 7,836
Thanks: 181
Thanked 733 Times in 554 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to RobinN
I am struggling to find the first article Zoe. My brain is mush today, but it need not be so difficult. I am just not in very good search mode. Can you help me?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-05-2007, 06:57 PM
angel's Avatar
Esteemed Pillar of the Community
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 760
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
thanks for the link ZOE

Ive been having some trouble in my sleep like feeling like not breathing or like i cant wake up cant move choking then ill wake up all the sudden it just started more often ..like im falling into a black hole its hard to explain... I felt like i was dying in my sk]leep today it was really weird then its like my brain was shutting down... Ive noticed when im about to fall asleep lately it feels like im droping like im falling fast then im afraid then i fall again then im awake again then i go to sleep weird huh? it happens right before i go to sleep..... Im going to tell my neurologist about it I wonder if its from the keppra may be ...... I guess i need to stop blaming everything on the anti-epileptic drug's though...

angel
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-05-2007, 07:15 PM
Bernard's Avatar
Your Host
Recent Blog: Oh poop
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 6,517
Thanks: 771
Thanked 2,289 Times in 817 Posts
Originally Posted by angel View Post:
Ive been having some trouble in my sleep like feeling like not breathing or like i cant wake up cant move choking then ill wake up all the sudden it just started more often ..
You might talk to your doc about testing for sleep apnea
__________________
New to CWE? I suggest reading the proactive prescription and epilepsy 101 threads. Also check out this chart of alternative epilepsy treatments and this page on EEG Neurofeedback. More great stuff can be found in the list of the best forum threads.

Would you like to help support this forum?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-05-2007, 07:22 PM
Birdbomb's Avatar
Super Moderator / VNS Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Las Vegas, Baby!
Posts: 2,398
Thanks: 169
Thanked 268 Times in 136 Posts
Apnea really doesn't happen when you are falling asleep like Angel describes. It mostly happened during REM, the deepest part of sleep. What Angel describes sounds like some type of seizure or anxiety/panic attack
__________________


http://www.vnsmessageboard.com

"If you are going through hell, keep going."
(Sir Winston Churchill, 1874-1965)

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”


.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-05-2007, 07:33 PM
angel's Avatar
Esteemed Pillar of the Community
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 760
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Birdbomb View Post:
Apnea really doesn't happen when you are falling asleep like Angel describes. It mostly happened during REM, the deepest part of sleep. What Angel describes sounds like some type of seizure or anxiety/panic attack
it happens right before I start to go to sleep or right when im going to wake up...

I don't know what it is.... i usually sleep through the night with out any problems....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-05-2007, 07:40 PM
angel's Avatar
Esteemed Pillar of the Community
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 760
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
you might be right birdbomb can you panic in your sleep? where you cant move when trying to wake up?

i have had a little stress as of lately... nothing really major though after i wake my head is pounding and feels weird.... dizzy thats a least what happend after my nap today and i was a little stressed when i went to sleep.....

Im not stressed out anymore.....

love angel
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-05-2007, 08:07 PM
Bernard's Avatar
Your Host
Recent Blog: Oh poop
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 6,517
Thanks: 771
Thanked 2,289 Times in 817 Posts
Yes, it's called sleep paralysis.
__________________
New to CWE? I suggest reading the proactive prescription and epilepsy 101 threads. Also check out this chart of alternative epilepsy treatments and this page on EEG Neurofeedback. More great stuff can be found in the list of the best forum threads.

Would you like to help support this forum?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-05-2007, 08:49 PM
Birdbomb's Avatar
Super Moderator / VNS Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Las Vegas, Baby!
Posts: 2,398
Thanks: 169
Thanked 268 Times in 136 Posts
With Apnea, we wake often, sometimes breathing hard trying to get in oxygen. As often as every 30 seconds! There are several other symptoms, but the main thing is not enough sleep. By mid-afternoon, we suddenely hit the wall with drop dead exhaustion. Sleep is all the body wants and it's very hard to stay awake much less function!

The way to diagnose Sleep Apnea is with a sleep study. They hook you up to an EEG, monitor your heart, lungs, brain and legs. Yes the legs also to rule out Restless Leg Syndrome. Betwen my OAS and my husbands SRLS it's a wonder either one of us gets any sleep. Of course then the little one crawls into bed with us around 3-4....
__________________


http://www.vnsmessageboard.com

"If you are going through hell, keep going."
(Sir Winston Churchill, 1874-1965)

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”


.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-05-2007, 09:10 PM
angel's Avatar
Esteemed Pillar of the Community
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 760
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Bernard View Post:
Yes, it's called sleep paralysis.
thanks to you both...

here is a link i found after bernard posted about sleep paralysis

http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/paralysis.html

Sleep paralysis is most often associated with narcolepsy, ... I have to nap at least a few hours every day even tho i go to bed around 9pm and get up at 4:00am 4:30am i usually get about 7 1/2 hours of sleep a night...

leep paralysis is most often associated with narcolepsy, a neurological condition in which the person has uncontrollable naps. However, there are many people who experience sleep paralysis without having signs of narcolepsy. Sometimes it runs in families. There is no known explanation why some people experience this paralysis. It is not harmful, although most people report feeling very afraid because they do not know what is happening, and within minutes they gradually or abruptly are able to move again; the episode is often terminated by a sound or a touch on the body.

In some cases, when hypnogogic hallucinations are present, people feel that someone is in the room with them, some experience the feeling that someone or something is sitting on their chest and they feel impending death and suffocation. That has been called the “Hag Phenomena” and has been happening to people over the centuries. These things cause people much anxiety and terror, but there is no physical harm.

stress related.......
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-05-2007, 09:12 PM
angel's Avatar
Esteemed Pillar of the Community
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 760
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
I'm a HAG... lol

love angel
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-05-2007, 10:01 PM
Zoe's Avatar
Zoe Zoe is offline
Alternative Research Encyclopedia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kentucky-Where the Bluegrass is very green
Posts: 662
Thanks: 45
Thanked 207 Times in 109 Posts
Originally Posted by RobinN View Post:
I am struggling to find the first article Zoe. My brain is mush today, but it need not be so difficult. I am just not in very good search mode. Can you help me?
American Sleep Apnea Association (ASAA) - Have nocturnal seizures? Lack of oxygen from sleep apnea might be playing a part. Learn more about it here. http://www.sleepapnea.org/

Hi Robin,
Its on the resources page from Bernard.
__________________

Zoe

"One should never believe any experiment until it has been proven by theory."--Sir Authur Eddington
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-05-2007, 10:16 PM
Zoe's Avatar
Zoe Zoe is offline
Alternative Research Encyclopedia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kentucky-Where the Bluegrass is very green
Posts: 662
Thanks: 45
Thanked 207 Times in 109 Posts
Originally Posted by angel View Post:
you might be right birdbomb can you panic in your sleep? where you cant move when trying to wake up?

i have had a little stress as of lately... nothing really major though after i wake my head is pounding and feels weird.... dizzy thats a least what happend after my nap today and i was a little stressed when i went to sleep.....

Im not stressed out anymore.....

love angel
Hi Angel,
Yes, you can "panic" in your sleep, could be for many reasons, your meds, magnesium deficiency, electrolyte imbalance, your metabolism, and any number of things like what Birdy and Bernard posted. I had severe panic episodes with my nocturnal seizures. I had gone to see the nutritionist at the hospital about possible food sensitivities triggering my seiszures. She pointed out that milk intolerance can lead to escess lactate in the blood leading to what she called an adreniline rush which can trigger the panic sensations and seizures. My nocturnal seizures with cardiac arrythmia went way down when I stopped using milk and milk products.
That may not be what's triggering your symptoms but it is worth checking out. What also helped me is learning a slow breathing exercise to calm myself down when I had this; and I used to wake up in a total sweat with my heart pounding and in total fear. Reminding myself that the fear was a physical reaction, not fear of anything real also helped. I just pullled this quote from a book and sent it to someone else:


"Twenty minutes of mditation, the ancient Eastern technique of passive concentration, alters oxygen consumption, blood flow, and can dramatically reduce the level of blood lactate, a substance associated with anxiety."
Marilyn Ferguson--The Brain Revolution

Try a google search on "lactate" "seizure threshold". Maybe practicing a slow breathing exercise when you feel one of these spells come on will help you bring it under control.
__________________

Zoe

"One should never believe any experiment until it has been proven by theory."--Sir Authur Eddington
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:05 PM
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa Bay Region, FL
Posts: 3,452
Thanks: 28
Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Dang ...

Now y'all got that end ~ how about trying to
wake me up

I'm sometimes impossible to wake up at times!
My parents, ex-husband, son, and even my
tenant has gotten frustrated trying to wake
me up! They've learned to just let me sleep.

It wasn't that long ago when my tenant decided
to do something really obnoxious, in spite of my
son's warning; to let me be. He picked me up
with hopes I would wake up and instead, wham,
I slammed to the floor, never waking up, just
completely out cold. He was pretty embarrassed
about it and left me there. When I did wake up
I never could figure out how I ended up down
there (on the floor) until he told me what he
had done. (Yeah, I scolded him about it)

But we know one thing - it doesn't matter if I
am not on meds or on meds; it will happen.
It only happens sporadically, but it happens.
Why?


I do remember being in neurologist Floor in EEG
and was supposed to be discharged when
the neurologist just could not wake me up and
did not like what he was seeing and ended
up keeping me there for another night and
had 2 more Neuros there to review it. I did
not know that I was being observed; as I
pretty much slept the entire day and the
entire night. When he came back the next
morning, I was staying again for another
night, they were capturing "Nocturnal
Electrographics" and like I was supposed to
know what that meant?

What was supposed to have been 3 day
stay ended up 6 days, didn't go home until
Saturday afternoon!

They weren't so concerned about when I
was awake, it was when I was asleep. And
when the flat-liners were popping up for a
few seconds here and there before spiking.
There were times kindling would occur but
no seizures fired off but were close to it,
so he said, all during my sleep. He did state
the staff attempted to wake me up and
when they did, even using smelling salts to
arouse me out of it (which it didn't always
work) I wasn't fully functional.

Even in 2006 video EEG - the report was very
much of the same old, same old. It remarks
that they did attempt to waken me, and
there were times when they did wake me
up - I was non-responsive (I think that's
what the report stated). And the same
Electrographic Episodes.

Nothing has changed.

*sigh*
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:19 PM
Zoe's Avatar
Zoe Zoe is offline
Alternative Research Encyclopedia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kentucky-Where the Bluegrass is very green
Posts: 662
Thanks: 45
Thanked 207 Times in 109 Posts
Try a google search on "seizures" "narcolepsy". Interesting links there.
__________________

Zoe

"One should never believe any experiment until it has been proven by theory."--Sir Authur Eddington
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:38 PM
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa Bay Region, FL
Posts: 3,452
Thanks: 28
Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Don't have Narcolepsy, have been checked
for that - negative on that.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-06-2007, 06:21 AM
angel's Avatar
Esteemed Pillar of the Community
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 760
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Zoe View Post:
Hi Angel,
Yes, you can "panic" in your sleep, sted. I had severe panic episodes with my nocturnal seizures.about possible food sensitivities triggering my seiszures.
.
I have not been drinking milk or eating anything with milk in it for about 3 days... really im not a big milk drinker... I have noticed in the past two weeks my hands are sweating... chest pain muscle cramps in my leg waking me up in the morning... my seizure's might be higher because of infection bladder... i feel like i have another uti.... coffee i need to quit im working on that one... Ive had problems with panic anxiety attacks in the past. I cant do the breathing or mediation in my sleep its when I'm half asleep or half awake... does seem to only happen when I'm stressed out.... its not sleep apnea... or Narcolepsy .... ill try changing my diet and see what happens... I have had problems with slightly low potassium levels.....

stress and diet i need to work on
thanks for the links
angel
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-06-2007, 07:17 AM
TeeTees's Avatar
Esteemed Pillar of the Community
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 919
Thanks: 3
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by angel View Post:
all the sudden it just started more often ..like im falling into a black hole its hard to explain... I felt like i was dying in my sleep today it was really weird then its like my brain was shutting down... Ive noticed when im about to fall asleep lately it feels like im droping like im falling fast then im afraid then i fall again then im awake again then i go to sleep weird huh?
How spooky ??!?!.....I used to have this "dream/sensation" when I was a toddler.....I used to be falling (in somersaults) towards the garden out the front....but as soon as I reach it, it disappears and then I start the loop again. I haven't had this feeling for a looooong time now though.

Strange that we should both get the same dream though, huh ?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-06-2007, 08:46 AM
RobinN's Avatar
Super Moderator / Super Mom
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SoCA
Posts: 7,836
Thanks: 181
Thanked 733 Times in 554 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to RobinN
Is this a possibility?
Quote :
Falling dreams are another theme that is quite common in the world of dreams. Contrary to a popular myth, you will not actually die if you do not wake up before your hit the ground during a fall.

As with most common dream themes, falling is an indication of insecurities, instabilities, and anxieties. You are feeling overwhelmed and out of control in some situation in your waking life. This may reflect the way you feel in your relationship or in your work environment. You have lost your foothold and can not hang on or keep up with the hustle and bustle of daily life. When you fall, there is nothing that you can hold on to. You more or less are forced toward this downward motion without any control. This lost of control may parallel a waking situation in your life.

Falling dreams also often reflect a sense of failure or inferiority in some circumstance or situation. It may be the fear of failing in your job/school, loss of status, or failure in love. You feel shameful and lack a sense of pride. You are unable to keep up with the status quo or that you don't measure up.

According to Freudian theory, dreams of falling indicate that you are contemplating giving into a sexual urge or impulse. You maybe lacking indiscretion.

Falling dreams typically occur during the first stage of sleep. Dreams in this stage are often accompanied by muscle spasms of the arms, legs, and the whole body. These sudden contractions, also known as myclonic jerks. Sometimes when we have these falling dreams, we feel our whole body jerk or twitch and we awaken from this jerk. It is thought that this jerking action is part of an arousal mechanism that allows the sleeper to awaken and become quickly alert and responsive to possible threats in the environment.

According to biblical interpretations, dreams about falling have a negative overtone and suggest that man is acting and walking according to his own way of thinking and not those of the Lord.
Be careful they have some flashing ads:
http://dreammoods.com/cgibin/falling...h=fallingintro
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-06-2007, 09:19 AM
angel's Avatar
Esteemed Pillar of the Community
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 760
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by RobinN View Post:
Is this a possibility?


Be careful they have some flashing ads:
http://dreammoods.com/cgibin/falling...h=fallingintro
Im not a sleep when it feels like im falling.... its happend when i just go to bed its nothing like dreaming...

love angel
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sports and seizures vtsammy The Kitchen 7 09-20-2007 08:50 PM
can lightning cause seizures? archer The Library 7 07-28-2006 01:48 PM
first time seizures latinap The Library 5 03-07-2006 06:47 AM
Seizures you can set your watch by! Dianne The Kitchen 8 06-16-2005 06:12 AM
Febrile seizures Bernard The Lounge 1 06-09-2005 06:04 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2005 © Measuring Up. ALL rights reserved.