Are We Addicted to our Drugs?

[kirsten]

I think the question of whether or not someone is addicted to their meds is as simple as this: Can you take only what you are prescribed to take? If so, you're not addicted (unless, of course, you're abusing some other drug of choice and are out of control). If not, look into it. Maybe there's an addictive tendency, and maybe not.

 

[Cint]

Can you take only what you are prescribed to take? If so, you're not addicted (unless, of course, you're abusing some other drug of choice and are out of control).

That is all this body can tolerate. Enough is enough!

 

[John-Forrest]

I've been taking a lot of anti-seizure drugs for decades, so I have no idea whether my condition would be about the same with them or without them. My obervations is it happens every couple of months - and no drug or combinations has changed that.

Maybe my own condition is not quite as severe as many of you here. Some people are having seizures all the time and drugs do make a significant difference.

The average reaction of an MD when they hear you had a grand mal seizure is to prescribe some drug and tell you not to dare stop taking it. It could be that person had some kind of odd seizure out of the blue that would never happen again. I doubt if any MD would consent to alternative therapies (for fear of law suit). The medical establishment is making lots of money from keeping people on a permanent prescription of drugs.

The word "addiction" has some very negative connotations. It could be argued that we are addicted, say, to sex, internet surfing, watching tv, oxygen, food, or life itself.

I know one thing: When I am very stressed out or very tired, that's when I am more likely to have one. Also, I have a heavy life-long coffee habit, maybe that's what's causing it. And I would say I AM addicted to coffee and tea.

 

[kirsten]

It could be argued that we are addicted, say, to sex, internet surfing, watching tv, oxygen, food, or life itself.

Well said.

 

[lindsayschu2]

Before I had my head injury last year, I went through a long period where my epilepsy was really easy to control. I was a terrible patient, in that I would often skip meds, and sometimes run out and take a day or so to get to the pharmacy, and an aura or two is all I would ever get, if that (I sooo miss those days ). I will say that when I didn't take it, I would start to feel really weird--I would get tingly everywhere, especially my lips, and I would feel agitated and wouldn't be able to sleep well, and it would be that that would remind me to finally go get my meds. I won't say I am addicted in that I was jonesing for my meds in any way, but there's no question that I was physiologically used to it, and discontinuing it suddenly created some kind of reaction that wasn't good. All the same there's no way I would skip or forget a single med now!!!

 

[John-Forrest]

I will concede that the anti-seizure drugs are not addictive in the usual sense. But if we simply cover up the symptoms with drugs, we are not dealing with the underlying cause. And the question I'm raising is the possibility that the drugs are perpetuating the condition, not fixing it. This is also very relevant to psychiatric conditions as well.

Also, there could very well be psychological triggers. For example, I find myself more apt to get triggered around special holidays or special occasions when there is a lot of stress trying to make it special.

If I were trying to get a PhD in this or something, one way to test it would be give persons who have never had a seizure in their life to take one of these drugs for awhile, then see if they develop an ongoing epileptic condition afterwards. I doubt if many people would want to venture there though. So in a way, MDs are using us as the 'lab rats' by putting different chemicals in us and seeing what happens. Or we can venture to test results on our own.

From my own personal experience, I certainly feel no craving for one of these drugs if I choose to get off, but I DO know I am initially more apt to have seizures during the withdrawal period.

I have frequently speculated whether it would be possible to consciously control this. For example, I know exactly where my trigger point is. It starts with a loud ringing in my right ear. If I could direct my neural energy attention away from there, perhaps I could subvert it. I would like to try biofeedback aligned with meditation.

 

[kirsten]

Actually, thousands of people without epilepsy have taken AEDs for long periods of time and not developed epilepsy--AEDs are often first line treatments for bipolar. All the bipolar patients I know take them and they don't have seizures.

One of the epilepsy treatments I take very seriously is lifestyle management. My sleep and eat schedules are really strict, I've gotten my stress management down pretty well--only reason I feel anxious these days is because my mom's dying. I do therapy and have done for five years. And I'm self employed so that I can rest when I know I'm too overloaded to do my seizures any good.

I don't believe we're being used as lab rats. The meds we use have very much been through long, long trials with strict rules and overseers. The problem I'm willing to acknowledge is at the level of medical research--the money's in fixing symptoms, not in developing cures or preventative measures.

 

[MAB]

Actually, thousands of people without epilepsy have taken AEDs for long periods of time and not developed epilepsy--AEDs are often first line treatments for bipolar. All the bipolar patients I know take them and they don't have seizures.

AED's are also very effective in treating nerve pain. I took neurotin for nerve pain years ago and never even realized it was an AED.

 

[Cint]

I will concede that the anti-seizure drugs are not addictive in the usual sense. But if we simply cover up the symptoms with drugs, we are not dealing with the underlying cause.

Ok, so for folks like me, what is the underlying cause?

And the question I'm raising is the possibility that the drugs are perpetuating the condition, not fixing it. This is also very relevant to psychiatric conditions as well.

Also, there could very well be psychological triggers. For example, I find myself more apt to get triggered around special holidays or special occasions when there is a lot of stress trying to make it special.

What's perpetuating the the seizures is the stress, as you mentioned. Some AEDs could perpetuate the problem for some people, depending on the type of seizures. As I said in one of my postings, the kindling effect is what also makes the seizures worse- seizures beget more seizures.

From my own personal experience, I certainly feel no craving for one of these drugs if I choose to get off, but I DO know I am initially more apt to have seizures during the withdrawal period.

From my personal experience, I had no cravings for the meds when I was off them for my testings in the hospital before and after brain surgery. I definitely had more seizures while in the hospital under observation while not taking AEDs.

I have frequently speculated whether it would be possible to consciously control this. For example, I know exactly where my trigger point is. It starts with a loud ringing in my right ear. If I could direct my neural energy attention away from there, perhaps I could subvert it. I would like to try biofeedback aligned with meditation.

Others have tried biofeedback and said it is possible.

 

[Cint]

Actually, thousands of people without epilepsy have taken AEDs for long periods of time and not developed epilepsy--AEDs are often first line treatments for bipolar. All the bipolar patients I know take them and they don't have seizures.

True... many patients with bipolar disorder do take AEDs as a first line treatment for their disorder. But sometimes, they do not do the job, so they need something stronger, like an anti-psychotic, because these AEDs and/or anti-depressants that are tricyclic or an SSRI do not work. I was one and it turned into a nightmare.

 

[Kgartner]

The problem I'm willing to acknowledge is at the level of medical research--the money's in fixing symptoms, not in developing cures or preventative measures.

:agree:

Yes! There needs to be so much more research into the underlying causes of epilepsy - it's maddening that so many healthy people seem to develop it "all of a sudden" and the doctors simply shrug their shoulders and say "we have no idea why." And like so much other research into epilepsy, I have a strong feeling that asking these questions will continue to to unlock the secrets of the brain.

In the meantime, I am grateful that my daughter has a treatment that works for her, and I hope and pray that all of you find a treatment that stops your seizures.

 

[kirsten]

Kgartner, there is at least one neuroscientist in the world who has been working on gene mapping to find preventions for neurological conditions. But the in-depth mapping they're doing will take a very long time and after that they still have to look at the rest so I guess I won't hear about it in my lifetime. Pity I can't remember his name--read it on Edge.org--a 2005 essay I think.

 

[kirsten]

Ah, I managed to find the part about the new genome project so here is an excerpt for those who are interested. It's taken from edge.org and the scientist who wrote this is Ray Kurzweil, who was part of the first human genome project.

" It took 15 years to sequence HIV and from that perspective the genome project seemed impossible in 1990. But the amount of genetic data we were able to sequence doubled every year while the cost came down by half each year.

"We finished the genome project on schedule and were able to sequence SARS in only 31 days. We are also gaining the means to reprogram the ancient information processes underlying biology. RNA interference can turn genes off by blocking the messenger RNA that express them. New forms of gene therapy are now able to place new genetic information in the right place on the right chromosome. We can create or block enzymes, the work horses of biology. We are reverse-engineering — and gaining the means to reprogram — the information processes underlying disease and aging, and this process is accelerating, doubling every year. If we think linearly, then the idea of turning off all disease and aging processes appears far off into the future just as the genome project did in 1990. On the other hand, if we factor in the doubling of the power of these technologies each year, the prospect of radical life extension is only a couple of decades away.

In addition to reprogramming biology, we will be able to go substantially beyond biology with nanotechnology in the form of computerized nanobots in the bloodstream. If the idea of programmable devices the size of blood cells performing therapeutic functions in the bloodstream sounds like far off science fiction, I would point out that we are doing this already in animals. One scientist cured type I diabetes in rats with blood cell sized devices containing 7 nanometer pores that let insulin out in a controlled fashion and that block antibodies. If we factor in the exponential advance of computation and communication (price-performance multiplying by a factor of a billion in 25 years while at the same time shrinking in size by a factor of thousands), these scenarios are highly realistic."

 

[Cint]

who was part of the first human genome project.

Here is more on the next human genome project from George Church, the founding investigator of the Human Genome project:

Mapping the Brain – Medicine’s Next Human Genome Project: Interview with George Church, PhD

http://www.medgadget.com/2013/05/ma...project-interview-with-george-church-phd.html

 

[SlimBlue]

I'm glad we've established that addiction != dependence. Addiction is just 1 possible reason for a dependency.

Personally, the reason for my AED dependency is that it reduces the frequency of my seizures (as opposed to supplying any other type of 'reward').

The reason for my addictions is I like the (not-necessary, but oh so 'essential') high.

 

[kirsten]

Looks like the two of them worked together in '13. I wonder if Kurzweil is involved in this project, too.

 

[John-Forrest]

This is probably a theme for another thread, but I've been hearing intriguing news about nanotechnology as a new medical treatment to get at the root of a lot of medical conditions. I get this newsletter called "Singularity Hub" and there's always news about that. Also, who knows, electomagnetic treatments could be a good to make us feel 'whole'. I am intrigued by biofeedback for many reasons, not sure how available that is with insurance coverage. There's all kinds of gadgets on the net but a lot of it sounds scam. But it would be great if you could get a home biofeedback device, maybe give you a warning that your head is in a trigger-happy state and you better find a safe place fast.

 

[kirsten]

From what I've been reading as well, it seems entirely probable that nanotechnology is in our medical future. It's pretty interesting stuff.

 

[Janus]

I am a recovering pharmaceutical addict--five years off mood/mine altering substances including alcohol, benzodiazapines (valium, clonazapam, xanex etc) and any other physically addictive medications (pseudoephedrine, codeine etc.) I can tell you that there is a huge difference between psychologically/physically addictive substances and medications that take just a week or two to wean off of. If I were to take one valium, I'd be screwed. I'd go circling around the drain again, and end up in the toilet. The neurontin, phenytoin, tegretol, topomax, epilim, lamictin etc have never left me craving for more and they haven't wrecked my life the way rivotril or valium would.

My sentiments exactly. I am clean of narcotics (including alcohol) because of the hell i went through as an active addict (sure i did more damage to my brain then) I do not consider A.E.D.'s to be habit forming.