Nomic

[Futureghost]

This Thread is for the game Nomic which you can read about here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic

I am implementing an immutable rule-set for the initial stages of game play.
It is as follows:

0. the position of a player's turn will be based upon the order in which they joined the game, for example if there are 3 players and their turns run in the sequence, player 1, player 2, player 3, player 1, etc. then a new player joining the game will find their turn after the 3rd player. every player will have a player number and must remember which player they are for the sake of preserving the integrity of turn based voting.

1. Every turn cycle, each player will have the opportunity to vote on which rules will be added to the game.

2. A player may propose a new rule at any time.

3. A majority of players must vote on a rule for the rules to be revised.

4. Rules are divided into two types: mutable and immutable. The main difference between these is that immutable rules must be changed into mutable rules (called transmuting) before they can be modified or removed. Immutable rules also take precedence over mutable ones. A rule change may be:
the addition of a new mutable rule
an amendment to a mutable rule
the repeal of a mutable rule
the transmutation of a rule from mutable to immutable
or the transmutation of a rule from immutable to mutable

5. a second thread should be kept separately as a comprehensive record of the existing rule-set for reference.

6. if you think that i have forgotten something here or that that game would be more interesting with slight variations on this rule set then join the game and begin voting !

 

[Futureghost]

Player 1
Round 1

Since for the moment i am the only player , I hereby vote that a the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule require not a majority vote but a unanimous vote, this vote being unanimous is therefore passed and the first turn has been completed. I am now player 1

 

[cazzy]

i am second and as i thick as sh1t i vote we make it more simple

 

[Futureghost]

in what specific way would you like to make Nomic more simple?

 

[Futureghost]

I hereby nominate the rule which if it receives either a majority or a unanimous vote will become the immutable rule numbered 7 and added to the basic rule set. The Rule is as follows:

if any condition exists such that two immutable rules are in conflict, the immutable rule which came before shall take precedence.

All in favor?

 

[cazzy]

sounds fair,now we got to sell this game to others we must not make people feel that they to thick like me and spelling perfect english although helpful is not essential.we may have to transmute 4th and fith

 

[petero]

oh wow this sounds like something I would like
I will have to read into this a bit more than I can right now though

 

[petero]

3rd btw

 

[Futureghost]

Player 1:
Round 2


I'll second the transmutation of rule 5, but not 4 as it adds value to the game. I would reconsider transmuting rule 4 later in the game but doing so this early in the game will only toss everybody into the deep end too soon I think.
Transmuting 4 is a complete game changer.

However majority vote isn't enough to transmute Rule 5, we need a unanimous vote (See Round 1).
and so we must wait for petero to vote and end round 2.

 

[Futureghost]

So to be clear, so far we are preparing to end round 2 and we are voting on the following rules:

that rule #5 be made mutable and that an immutable rule numbering #7 be added as a safeguard against the formation of accidental logical paradox in the collection of immutable rules.

have you anything to add Petero?

 

[petero]

clarification only in that all rules will be made mutable with the beginning of round 3 and that there will never be a time wherein all rules are made immutable

clarification that changes/turns will affect only one rule at a time (I still plan to read more about the game on Wikipedia)

 

[Futureghost]

Are you nominating? I won't second that if you are. I'll second transmutation of #5.

"a second thread should be kept separately as a comprehensive record of the existing rule-set for reference."

assuming that we'll just try to keep track (even though it could get hard to keep track of it all), I will not however second the total elimination of all immutable rules.

nope, not doing it. If you want that measure passed you are going to need to sneak it in somehow because I won't cooperate with it. no way.


will you agree to the addition of a seventh immutable rule however to act as a measure against accidental logical conflicts?




if you are asking for clarification then the existing rule set is " as is " if you would like to nominate changes or additions you may do so, that is the game.

 

[cazzy]

i say transmuting is paramount to understand so we make it mutable rule that people like me totally understand why we transmuting and dont do mutable rules in first place

 

[Futureghost]

Ok, I think I get it. you Don't understand what Transmuting is? right?

it's like this, there are two types of rules in this game, Mutable and Immutable.
A Mutable rule can just be changed in a single majority vote, that is if more people agree than disagree that a mutable rule should be changed, replaced or just eliminated it only takes one round or voting cycle to do that.

Immutable rules are different. Immutable rules require two rounds or voting cycles to change. They must first be 'transmuted' into mutable rules. this helps safeguard very fundamental rules without which the game it's self just stops. They do this in a couple ways. First by being harder to change, second by superseding mutable rules.

take the voting cycle for example, each player gets to vote every turn...ONCE ONLY.
Now I didn't say that explicitly, so hypothetically if we passed a majority vote for a mutable rule that each player except the last gets to vote every turn, the last player would STILL get to vote because that rule, even though we all agreed on it is muted by the immutable rule that every player gets to vote every turn.

does it make sense?

having BOTH mutable and immutable rules is necessary without them the game begins to fall apart or it becomes MORE complex than it already is.

Transmutation however is a means by which immutable rules can collective voted into mutable ones. in the case of this game to transmute some immutable rule, then just like that, it becomes mutable. That means the rule that was previously unaffected by mutable rules is now effected by them.

the reason I am against rendering the core rules mutable at this time is because it will end the game very quickly.

do we all understand?

 

[Futureghost]

Also, there is no rule stating that you can only nominate one new rule per voting cycle but really, try not to nominate more than 1. Right now we have about 5 nominations for new rules and we aren't even in round 2. It doesn't matter who nominates what if we never make it past the round.

 

[cazzy]

i will go back to wiki reread and reread