Driving with Epilepsy
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Ruth
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The man did not have a breakthrough seizure. His doctor testified that he was on medicines for epilepsy. I am sure his license was taken away from him.
It happened close to where I live so I watched the court proceedings on TV. It makes us look bad. He said that he was sorry. I am sure the quilt is overwhelming.
I have never driven a car in my life for this reason. I take public transportation or I walk. Whenever we move, I make sure we are by a bus stop.
It happened close to where I live so I watched the court proceedings on TV. It makes us look bad. He said that he was sorry. I am sure the quilt is overwhelming.
I have never driven a car in my life for this reason. I take public transportation or I walk. Whenever we move, I make sure we are by a bus stop.
Endless
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How awful - for the families of the people who were killed, and for the man driving.
Me, today is the day I'm legal to drive! And I'm going to! I have my seizure alert dog if I should have a breakthrough seizure. It's too impossible for me to function here without being able to drive. I hope I keep my status over time and don't have to give it up again.
Me, today is the day I'm legal to drive! And I'm going to! I have my seizure alert dog if I should have a breakthrough seizure. It's too impossible for me to function here without being able to drive. I hope I keep my status over time and don't have to give it up again.
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daisy.girl
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Endless....just curious, but I thought you were still having seizures? How did you get your license back?
Maybe I am mistaken, which is quite possible with my memory. I am very happy for you.....but be careful!
Maybe I am mistaken, which is quite possible with my memory. I am very happy for you.....but be careful!
Endless
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In the last 6 months they have been simple partials, at least according to the criteria given to me by my epi. I suspect there have been CP's, but unless they meet the criteria, they don't count.
My epi only counts them if there is a witness, or there is outside objective evidence (like broken objects, injuries, one second I'm physically in one place and the next second I'm in another and I have no idea how I got there, etc.) I'm really grateful to him for this. His logic is that otherwise they could have a reasonable, logical explanation. And I found that lots of times that is true!
Like a TV show where I thought I had lost at least a 5 minute chunk of time during a TV movie - all of the sudden the plot was in a completely different place wayyyyy down the plot line - like 5 years had passed in the story. I thought I had a CP. Comparing notes with a friend who had also seen the show, it was just really bad film editing.
Also one time when I was IMing with a friend, and all of the sudden there were 7 or 8 "Are U there?" lines from her. I thought I had a complex partial. Nope. My computer connection had just frozen up while I was typing at her.
One more...! A friend was coming over to pick me up to take me on errands. I heard her pounding on the door. She was frantic. Apparently she had called me many times on my phone to tell me she was almost there. No answer on my end, and the phone was right in my pocket. Then when she got there she said she knocked several times - no answer. We both cried together thinking I'd had another CP, and it had lasted about 10 minutes which would have been really bad news. Well, turns out NOT a CP. I finally thought of looking at my phones call record. No incoming calls from her. She had manually dialed my number instead of using the auto dial on her phone. She called the wrong number, and then just hit "resend" time after time. I'm surprised she didn't suspect something was up when there was no voicemail. Anyway.... the door - she hadn't knocked, she used the doorbell which turned out to have a dead battery. I didn't hear her till she resorted to pounding on the door. No CP.
So, I'm all for the "objective evidence" criteria.
P.S. Where I live driving requires 6 months without an altered consciousness seizure. SP's are okay.
My epi only counts them if there is a witness, or there is outside objective evidence (like broken objects, injuries, one second I'm physically in one place and the next second I'm in another and I have no idea how I got there, etc.) I'm really grateful to him for this. His logic is that otherwise they could have a reasonable, logical explanation. And I found that lots of times that is true!
Like a TV show where I thought I had lost at least a 5 minute chunk of time during a TV movie - all of the sudden the plot was in a completely different place wayyyyy down the plot line - like 5 years had passed in the story. I thought I had a CP. Comparing notes with a friend who had also seen the show, it was just really bad film editing.
Also one time when I was IMing with a friend, and all of the sudden there were 7 or 8 "Are U there?" lines from her. I thought I had a complex partial. Nope. My computer connection had just frozen up while I was typing at her.
One more...! A friend was coming over to pick me up to take me on errands. I heard her pounding on the door. She was frantic. Apparently she had called me many times on my phone to tell me she was almost there. No answer on my end, and the phone was right in my pocket. Then when she got there she said she knocked several times - no answer. We both cried together thinking I'd had another CP, and it had lasted about 10 minutes which would have been really bad news. Well, turns out NOT a CP. I finally thought of looking at my phones call record. No incoming calls from her. She had manually dialed my number instead of using the auto dial on her phone. She called the wrong number, and then just hit "resend" time after time. I'm surprised she didn't suspect something was up when there was no voicemail. Anyway.... the door - she hadn't knocked, she used the doorbell which turned out to have a dead battery. I didn't hear her till she resorted to pounding on the door. No CP.
So, I'm all for the "objective evidence" criteria.
P.S. Where I live driving requires 6 months without an altered consciousness seizure. SP's are okay.
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Ruth
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Endless, what state do you live in? I live in CA. Since I have never driven, I do not know the laws in my state.
I walk and take buses places. When I am walking, I always cross the street at crosswalks, preferably with the lights.
Do I have to worry about people with simple partials hitting me at a crosswalk? That scares me to know that someone with epilepsy could run over me.
I walk and take buses places. When I am walking, I always cross the street at crosswalks, preferably with the lights.
Do I have to worry about people with simple partials hitting me at a crosswalk? That scares me to know that someone with epilepsy could run over me.
SeizetheNight
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I am sorry, but are you going to not cross the road because of the slight possibility of someone having a seizure at the exact moment that you decide to cross that street? I would be more afraid that a drunk driver was coming down the road at that time, or someone was falling asleep, or now more than ever, someone is sending a text message or talking on there cell phone, or just plain not paying attention. I am all for driving restrictions for those who need to be restricted, but there are so many people on the roads that are more dangerous than a controled epileptic. We have the right to a normal life, just like everyone else. Are we worse than the person who goes to the bar, gets drunk, drives home, and kills three people? He made a choice that night. We might have been seizure free, on meds for 2 years, living a normal life, driving home from school, when BAM. Breakthrough seizure. Your post is a sad one, but there is so little background info on it, it seems like you are trying to make the kid out as a bad guy. Maybe he is, but we have no way to judge. And unfortunatly, that is probably the way the majority of the population sees it. No background facts, just judgement. I don't think it is him that makes us look bad, I bet it is more the way that he is portrayed. sorry for the rant....
Chel
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I'm sure remorse played a part
In the lack of sentence.
This issue came to the fore for me recently, when I phoned the local Epilepsy Helpline for advice about whether or not to tell my employer about my E. The person on the Helpline was stunned I still have my license (one complex partial 6 mths ago, multi simple partials, dx 2 mths ago), and really upset me. We talked about a variety of issues, and she sent me a very helpful info pack.
In the pack was an issue of the latest magazine which includes an article on Epilepsy on Driving. It is a "position statement from the Joint Epilepsy Council of Australia" which makes some very valid points about the driving restrictions placed on epileptics. It notes that it is an "acceptable risk" (if you're involved in risk management, you know what that is) for people to drive within the legal alcohol limit; to be young males driving under the age of 25 years; to be 75 years of age and over and driving - ALL of which have a HIGHER accident rate than epileptics (according to this article, which has referenced it's sources).
The above three levels of risk are tolerated by the community, yet an epileptic causes an accident and there is an outcry? Why?
Anyway, if anyone would like to read the Australian document Assessing Fitness to Drive, it's here:
http://www.austroads.com.au/cms/AFTD web Aug 2006.pdf
Oh, and my neurologist has written to the appropriate authorities to say I should keep my license. Without my license, in my tiny little town with no public transport, I can't get to my job (37km away), and can't get to the shops or the vet (36km away, in the opposite direction).
I'll manage my health and my triggers to ensure I don't have seizures. Touch wood, I'm lucky in that respect. Stay rested, no alcohol, be aware of food triggers...
In the lack of sentence.
This issue came to the fore for me recently, when I phoned the local Epilepsy Helpline for advice about whether or not to tell my employer about my E. The person on the Helpline was stunned I still have my license (one complex partial 6 mths ago, multi simple partials, dx 2 mths ago), and really upset me. We talked about a variety of issues, and she sent me a very helpful info pack.
In the pack was an issue of the latest magazine which includes an article on Epilepsy on Driving. It is a "position statement from the Joint Epilepsy Council of Australia" which makes some very valid points about the driving restrictions placed on epileptics. It notes that it is an "acceptable risk" (if you're involved in risk management, you know what that is) for people to drive within the legal alcohol limit; to be young males driving under the age of 25 years; to be 75 years of age and over and driving - ALL of which have a HIGHER accident rate than epileptics (according to this article, which has referenced it's sources).
The above three levels of risk are tolerated by the community, yet an epileptic causes an accident and there is an outcry? Why?
Anyway, if anyone would like to read the Australian document Assessing Fitness to Drive, it's here:
http://www.austroads.com.au/cms/AFTD web Aug 2006.pdf
Oh, and my neurologist has written to the appropriate authorities to say I should keep my license. Without my license, in my tiny little town with no public transport, I can't get to my job (37km away), and can't get to the shops or the vet (36km away, in the opposite direction).
I'll manage my health and my triggers to ensure I don't have seizures. Touch wood, I'm lucky in that respect. Stay rested, no alcohol, be aware of food triggers...
travel bug
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For those who are non-compliant, or who know or even suspect that they don't have good seizure control, it is as criminal to drive as it is for those who drive while drunk. HOWEVER, I agree with SeizetheNight. Those who are compliant and have had good seizure control for at least 6 months are no more irresponsible and pose no more of a risk than people who have high blood pressure/high cholesterol and are at a high risk of stroke or heart attack. My sister's best friend's dad had a heart attack while driving and crashed into a building. No one was hurt, but had he survived the heart attack, I doubt he would have been prosecuted for driving with a bad cardiovascular system. I'm not being snarky or sarcastic, so sorry if it sounds that way. But people have accidents all the time due to other health problems and no one accuses them of being bad people.
I've had good seizure control for almost a year, but I don't drive because my right leg is too weak to control the accelerator and brake effectively. It would be irresponsible to drive right now. But if I ever get my strength back again so that I have full control of my car, and if I still have good seizure control, I certainly plan on driving again.
Plus, driving isn't just a matter of feeling independent, it's the only way some are able to work. There are many places in the U.S. where it's all but impossible to work if you can't drive. It's hard enough to find a job as it is.
Of course no job is worth someone's life, but if seizures are well controlled, a person with epilepsy is no more dangerous - probably less dangerous - than the vast majority of other drivers.
(Edit: Sorry if my post sort of mirrors Chel's. I didn't see it until after posting mine. I like Chel's post better.)
I've had good seizure control for almost a year, but I don't drive because my right leg is too weak to control the accelerator and brake effectively. It would be irresponsible to drive right now. But if I ever get my strength back again so that I have full control of my car, and if I still have good seizure control, I certainly plan on driving again.
Plus, driving isn't just a matter of feeling independent, it's the only way some are able to work. There are many places in the U.S. where it's all but impossible to work if you can't drive. It's hard enough to find a job as it is.
Of course no job is worth someone's life, but if seizures are well controlled, a person with epilepsy is no more dangerous - probably less dangerous - than the vast majority of other drivers.
(Edit: Sorry if my post sort of mirrors Chel's. I didn't see it until after posting mine. I like Chel's post better.)
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Endless
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Hi, Ruth,
Here's a couple of links to the driving laws for each state:
http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/living/wellness/transportation/drivinglaws.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epilepsy_and_driving
But to know the specifics/details of each law, you need to look it up in your state's law or driver's guide. Our state has similar guidelines for epilepsy, heart disease, and diabetes. They are treated the same.
My doctor has approved me for driving as of Dec. 11th, so I'm good to go.
Here's a couple of links to the driving laws for each state:
http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/living/wellness/transportation/drivinglaws.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epilepsy_and_driving
But to know the specifics/details of each law, you need to look it up in your state's law or driver's guide. Our state has similar guidelines for epilepsy, heart disease, and diabetes. They are treated the same.
My doctor has approved me for driving as of Dec. 11th, so I'm good to go.
Ruth
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Thank you Endless. I looked up CA and here is what it says:
Seizure-Free Period 3-6 months with exceptions
Periodical Medical Updates Required after Licensing - At discretion of DMV
Doctors Required to Report Epilepsy - Yes
DMV Appeal of License Denial- Yes
I hope everyone looks up their state. The problem in CA is that doctors do not report epilepsy to the DMV. That is probably why the doctor had to testify at the trial. He had not reported it. I was wondering why he had to testify.
Seizure-Free Period 3-6 months with exceptions
Periodical Medical Updates Required after Licensing - At discretion of DMV
Doctors Required to Report Epilepsy - Yes
DMV Appeal of License Denial- Yes
I hope everyone looks up their state. The problem in CA is that doctors do not report epilepsy to the DMV. That is probably why the doctor had to testify at the trial. He had not reported it. I was wondering why he had to testify.
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Here's my tale of woe...
I got my driver's licence before I was definitively diagnosed with epilepsy.
In 10 days, I had 6 accidents with non-moving objets.
When I wrapped the car around the cement pole of the parking garage, I took it to the body shop, got an estimate and gave my mother a check for the damage when she came home from Europe.
I didn't drive again for 12 years. Before I did make the second effort, I started from the very beginning...with an ex-police officer!
P.S. I'm still a lousy driver. :-(
I got my driver's licence before I was definitively diagnosed with epilepsy.
In 10 days, I had 6 accidents with non-moving objets.
When I wrapped the car around the cement pole of the parking garage, I took it to the body shop, got an estimate and gave my mother a check for the damage when she came home from Europe.
I didn't drive again for 12 years. Before I did make the second effort, I started from the very beginning...with an ex-police officer!
P.S. I'm still a lousy driver. :-(
It's unfortunate that the 3 people were killed because of the accident...I don't think that I would be able to live with the guilt if I did this. I don't know the background details such as if the man involved was considered to have his seizures under control or not.
That being said, some of the other posters make excellent points: distracted driving, drunk driving, and driving with other health issues cause more accidents and fatalities than drivers with epilepsy. For some reason, it's news when someone has a seizure while driving and causes injury to himself/herself and either injures/kills others in the process. Why isn't it news when someone who's distracted or drunk drifts over into another lane and causes an accident serious enough to injure or kill others?
I didn't develop seizures (tonic clonics with warning simple partials) until earlier this year and lost my license for 3 months which is the law in my state. I don't drive if I am experiencing simple partials, and also don't drive if I am suffering from another illness (gastrointestinal upset) that might prevent my meds from working the right way. Honestly, you are probably safer on the road with me and my epilepsy than you are with many other drivers...my state is kind of famous for being VERY lax on repeat offenders with DUIs.
That being said, some of the other posters make excellent points: distracted driving, drunk driving, and driving with other health issues cause more accidents and fatalities than drivers with epilepsy. For some reason, it's news when someone has a seizure while driving and causes injury to himself/herself and either injures/kills others in the process. Why isn't it news when someone who's distracted or drunk drifts over into another lane and causes an accident serious enough to injure or kill others?
I didn't develop seizures (tonic clonics with warning simple partials) until earlier this year and lost my license for 3 months which is the law in my state. I don't drive if I am experiencing simple partials, and also don't drive if I am suffering from another illness (gastrointestinal upset) that might prevent my meds from working the right way. Honestly, you are probably safer on the road with me and my epilepsy than you are with many other drivers...my state is kind of famous for being VERY lax on repeat offenders with DUIs.
Ruth
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Phylis, how were you after those accidents? They must have been terrifying.
Minkels, my state is very strict on DUI's.
People with heart attacks, in my state, make the news when they have a car accident. One elderly man had a heart attack and killed several people in a market place. He got life in prison.
Minkels, my state is very strict on DUI's.
People with heart attacks, in my state, make the news when they have a car accident. One elderly man had a heart attack and killed several people in a market place. He got life in prison.
travel bug
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Hi Ruth,
I understand that those of us with health issues must be extra careful as well as truly honest with ourselves and our doctors about our health and ability to drive. Driving is a privilege, not a right. But no one with well controlled epilepsy and who has their doctor's approval can be expected to give up driving any more than someone who is over fifty, a bit over weight with high blood pressure can be expected to. There wouldn't be anyone on the roads. People are not prosecuted for having a stroke or heart attack while driving unless it is clear and provable that they had been advised not to drive by a doctor who suspected that they were at particularly high risk.
I remember the story about the old man plowing into the market, but if it's the story I'm thinking of, he was nearly 90 and drove at highway speeds through the market. He didn't have a heart attack, but knew that he was in very bad health and not capable of driving. That story started a debate about having regular driving tests for elderly drivers.
I applaud your passion for safety, Ruth, and believe me, I'm a big believer in responsible driving, but as Chel pointed out, there are other driving populations that are far more dangerous that no one would consider depriving of their right to drive.
Respectfully,
travel bug
I understand that those of us with health issues must be extra careful as well as truly honest with ourselves and our doctors about our health and ability to drive. Driving is a privilege, not a right. But no one with well controlled epilepsy and who has their doctor's approval can be expected to give up driving any more than someone who is over fifty, a bit over weight with high blood pressure can be expected to. There wouldn't be anyone on the roads. People are not prosecuted for having a stroke or heart attack while driving unless it is clear and provable that they had been advised not to drive by a doctor who suspected that they were at particularly high risk.
I remember the story about the old man plowing into the market, but if it's the story I'm thinking of, he was nearly 90 and drove at highway speeds through the market. He didn't have a heart attack, but knew that he was in very bad health and not capable of driving. That story started a debate about having regular driving tests for elderly drivers.
I applaud your passion for safety, Ruth, and believe me, I'm a big believer in responsible driving, but as Chel pointed out, there are other driving populations that are far more dangerous that no one would consider depriving of their right to drive.
Respectfully,
travel bug
Ruth
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Thank you Travel bug for your common sense approach to driving. I hope everyone reads your post. BTW do you llive in CA?
Chel, I did look up Assessing Fitness to Drive. There was the title and a blank page. I looked to the left and saw papers. I thought that was the information. I was asked to pick out a specific page. I do not know how to do that.
Would you please pick out the page or pages that you want us to read? I will read it.
Chel, I did look up Assessing Fitness to Drive. There was the title and a blank page. I looked to the left and saw papers. I thought that was the information. I was asked to pick out a specific page. I do not know how to do that.
Would you please pick out the page or pages that you want us to read? I will read it.