Neurofeedback? and... permanent damage from meds?

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elle emme

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Hi everyone!

I joined the forum a while back, when I was staying at my parents' house in Arkansas, but should reintroduce myself since I have been basically inactive on here since moving to Portland, OR earlier this year, and being caught up with settling myself in a new place. My story is basically that I was diagnosed with epilepsy when I was 14 (I am now 26), and only ever had consciousness-retaining seizures that would last for about 20 seconds and render me unable to respond to external stimuli, but still leave me aware of my surroundings. I took Carbatrol and Keppra for a while during high school, and had success with that for a couple of years... then my pediatric neurologist tried tapering me off, and the seizures came back, and then we put me back on those same AEDs to no avail... then another neurologist put me on Lamictal, which brought only side effects, and no relief... then I just tapered myself off during college, and carried on with life.

I went successfully without any meds for about 4 years. I still had daily zone-out episodes, but they didn't really affect my life adversely at all. Again, I was conscious throughout them. Last year, however, when I was living in New York City and working as a freelance writer, the stress of surviving in such a pricey place through such an irregularly paid manner made my epilepsy worse than it had been before -- I had my first-ever grand mal seizure, which occurred after two nights in a row of drinking. Stupidly, I went to see a neurologist rather than simply realize that I should simply avoid alcohol, and the ensuing prescriptions of generic Keppra, Zonegran, Dilantin, and Klonopin that I went through last year brought on a new sort of random, blacking-out seizure that now occurs practically daily. Really, I saw that one week after beginning my generic Keppra, I had a "fainting spell" at my local coffee shop, which was unlike anything I'd ever had before: neither the sort of consciousness-retaining zone-out that I'd become so accustomed to, nor the full-out grand mal that I had after those two nights of drinking. This sort of "fainting spell" only became more frequent as I went through those other medications last year... and now I often have them multiple times a day. I'm wondering... can anyone speak to whether or not the new types of seizures brought on by some of these drugs could now be stuck with me permanently? I mean... how often does irreversible damage occur from AEDs? Getting off the Klonopin that I was taking earlier this year was particularly rough, as the benzodiazepine withdrawal seemed to exacerbate my seizure activity even more.

I ended up moving to Portland in February specifically so that I could take advantage of alternatives to pharmaceuticals that are more common here than in many locales throughout the US. Namely, I am now pursuing acupuncture as well as neurofeedback therapy, and I am interested to hear: has anyone on here successfully gotten their epilepsy under control without AEDs? Perhaps through neurofeedback?

It seems like the neurofeedback is helping. For instance, I went two days in a row without having a seizure after my session this past Wednesday, for example. Two days is significant, seeing as there have been some days in which I've had up to five seizures in the span of 24 hours.

Then, I had one seizure on the third day after my session. . . and another one today. . . so I am basically wondering... what are people's experiences with neurofeedback? I'm eager to hear anything and everything that fellow epileptics have to say about this technology. In cases in which people have found success... did you have any experiences with effects of treatment lasting, say, for only two days or so, early on... and then the benefits lasting longer and longer, with the more treatments that were underwent, perhaps? I'm hoping that I've found something that will actually bring me relief, if I'm just patient enough to stick with it long enough.

Truly, any and all information is very much appreciated.

Many thanks,
Elle
 
Hello Elle,

My Son has been in neurofeedback for nearly 2 years now...has not cured his E but it has provided many benefits, reduced anxiety, clarity of thinking, better able to concentrate..not as hyper as he used to be.

just a thought and one u may not be interested in but here goes…Have you considered/looked into CBD? I am pretty sure its available/legal in Oregan for Epilepsy, some great news coming out these days on CBD and seizures….my Son has been using for the past couple of months, he uses a CBD oil...….too early still to tell but he giving it a go..we have reduced meds by 1/3 and we are not seeing more seizures..so we are praying that it is the CBD that is helping…
 
Chaz1, thanks so much for your reply! It is indeed good to hear that the neurofeedback, even though not rendering ideal results, has provided so many benefits for your son. I am just going to keep on trucking with it.

And, I am STILL VERY INTERESTED to hear anyone and everyone else's experiences with neurofeedback, too.

And yes, I have indeed considered CBD, as it is legal in Portland. I have bought some, in fact, and tried it a few times, and it does seem to be effective. I do not use it regularly, though -- I have just had it stashed away, on stand-by, for months now. Personally, I am just trying to get back to where I was before pharmaceuticals worsened my condition exponentially, where I wasn't reliant on any substance being ingested regularly... which I fully realize is a high bar to have set, but seeing as that is my ideal, I am first trying to see how much progress I can make with the neurofeedback, and its hopefully permanent retraining-the-brain benefits, before I enter other factors into the equation. That way, I can maintain a feel for just what exactly is having what effect.

I am really glad that you brought it up, though-- it's great to hear of a success story with the CBD, as it is my #1 choice for what to try next (I mean, REALLY try, with regular, daily usage). Again, my sporadic previous attempts were very promising, for the most part, save for just one time when I partook of some a few weeks back, hoping it would stave off all seizures as it seemed to have previously done; I had several that day anyway, though. I am still impressed with the CBD regardless, however, as that anomaly of an experience was at a point in my neurofeedback treatments where I was experiencing a definite increase in seizure frequency due specifically to what sites on the head we'd just worked on. And thus, I am hoping a) that that increase caused by the LENS neurofeedback is an example of the sort of initial worsening I was warned could occur early on by my therapist, given that the LENS therapy is considered to be a homeopathic treatment, and as with other homeopathies, an initial worsening is simply the body purging out what it needs to (and is in fact considered to be preferable to no initial effect being seen at all) and b) that if it turns out I DO have to turn to something other than the neurofeedback, that my one experience of the CBD not working is simply reflective of the degree to which the neurofeedback had temporarily screwed up my dicey synapses that one day, and that I can find a reliable crutch in the CBD.

Another reason that I haven't just delved fully into the CBD is because I don't particularly like being high. However, it does seem -- as I've detected in just the one batch that I've purchased here in Portland -- that they've really made some significant advances in breeding. It seems that they really have managed to pinpoint strains of marijuana that are high in CBD and simultaneously quite low in THC.

Has this been your son's experience, as well, Chaz1? That there really aren't any feelings of getting high from the medical marijuana that's been specifically selected for its CBD? I'm interested to hear all about how this has been for him, too.

Thanks again for your reply! All support and feedback definitely helps.
 
Last edited:
ATTN: Mary1

Mary1, thanks so much for the private message you sent me, too, relaying your own experience... I wrote you a reply, but upon trying to send, was met with a message stating that you can't receive private messages for some reason... so I just sent it to myself to save it as a draft, heh. Did you select at some point to opt out of receiving PMs? If so, just wanted to bring that to your attention. If it's not something you can choose to change for whatever reason, mind if I post the reply to your message on the thread here? Nothing terribly personal in it, just wanted to respect the fact that you sent me a PM. Totally your call... just didn't want you to think that I ignored the much-appreciated support you threw out at me via cyberspace :)
 
Hi Elle, thanks for deciding to say hello! :hello:

Your background sounds a lot like my wife's - no drugs and daily zone outs that didn't adversely affect her life until she started having tonic clonics. She also used neurofeedback (NFB) and had great success with it. After initially not getting much results, she almost quit the NFB after 3 month or so, but we kept with it as it was our best hope for a drug free solution. After 5 months or so, it was like a light switch went off. She was seizure free and drug free for the next 4 years. She started having seizures again after delivering our first child. She's had her ups and downs since then but is mostly back on a stable situation now (though she is taking an AED now).
 
I went successfully without any meds for about 4 years. I still had daily zone-out episodes, but they didn't really affect my life adversely at all. Again, I was conscious throughout them. Last year, however, when I was living in New York City and working as a freelance writer, the stress of surviving in such a pricey place through such an irregularly paid manner made my epilepsy worse than it had been before -- I had my first-ever grand mal seizure, which occurred after two nights in a row of drinking. Stupidly, I went to see a neurologist rather than simply realize that I should simply avoid alcohol, and the ensuing prescriptions of generic Keppra, Zonegran, Dilantin, and Klonopin that I went through last year brought on a new sort of random, blacking-out seizure that now occurs practically daily. Really, I saw that one week after beginning my generic Keppra, I had a "fainting spell" at my local coffee shop, which was unlike anything I'd ever had before: neither the sort of consciousness-retaining zone-out that I'd become so accustomed to, nor the full-out grand mal that I had after those two nights of drinking. This sort of "fainting spell" only became more frequent as I went through those other medications last year... and now I often have them multiple times a day. I'm wondering... can anyone speak to whether or not the new types of seizures brought on by some of these drugs could now be stuck with me permanently? I mean... how often does irreversible damage occur from AEDs? Getting off the Klonopin that I was taking earlier this year was particularly rough, as the benzodiazepine withdrawal seemed to exacerbate my seizure activity even more.

The seizures could be stuck with you permanently if you don't get them under control soon. Brain damage is more from re-occurring seizures than from the AEDs. Those seizures you describe sound like Complex Partial seizures and they are harder to control than a TC (grand mal). And they can/do happen multiple times a day, regardless of meds, although some meds do make seizures worse for some folks. True, Klonopin is a benzo and can be quite addictive so it is difficult to get off that drug
 
:agree:
Regardless of whether your seizures were caused by meds or by an escalation of your seizures due to other triggers, the sooner you can get them under control the better, since the brain can "get into the habit" of seizing. I hope the neurofeedback and acupuncture do the trick for you. You may want to check out the thread at the link below. In it, RobinN describes her daughter's journey to her current seizure-free state. Like you, medication appeared to make seizures worse, so Robin turned to neurofeedback and dietary changes to help her daughter get control of her seizures.
http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f32/neurofeedback-rebeccas-story-2733/
 
trying both oils, high CBD 29/1 THC ratio u cannot get high/stoned on this, no matter how much u take….

we also have higher THC to CBD, which he testing .....

the whole point is the goodness of the plant, not the THC, because only this makes u stoned/high and this is not the goal. But if being high relaxes my Son, so be it…its medicinal….AND A DARN WEED ")

its about to go pharma......so damn good it is....they will patent it...but I live NLD.....
 
Bernard, thanks for sharing your wife's story -- it's really encouraging to hear that she had such success with the neurofeedback.

Cint, thanks for the heads up. I'm hopeful that the neurofeedback will help my brain form different habits.

Chaz, thanks for the details as to what your son is trying out... all good information to have in case I ultimately decide to go that route. And I agree, it IS a d@#*! weed. In my personal case, being high doesn't make me feel relaxed, but rather paranoid/even more overly analytical than I already am, which is my only concern. I've had better experiences with the medical that I tried, though.

Nakamova-- thanks for the heads up regarding RobinN's thread. I don't quite know what to take away from it, having read it, but might just send a PM to ask how things went.

I've only had two seizures in the span of seven days, at this current point, which is a significant reduction from what sort of activity I HAD been experiencing as late as even the week before (up to five seizures a day, sometimes!). I attribute this at least partially to my therapist and I working on specific neurofeedback sites last week. . . hopefully, we've found the specific areas to work on, and things will continue improving from here.
 
keep us posted :) my Son still loves his neurofeedback sessions, goes once a week...
 
im a 49 year old female with epilepsy since the age of 37. im seeking neurofeedback therapy for my seizures but cant find many in sydney. is there anyone who knows of any here in sydney that i can contact.
thanks in advance for any information.
bornova
 
Hi bernard,
I thank you so much for your time and help. very considerate of you. i have to say that you are lucky to be in USA where medicine is more advanced. not like that here in Australia. those 3 clinics i have searched before i have an app. with one of them, the other is closing its doors due to no patients obviously because of its high costs of NF therapy and third one doesn't have treatment for epilepsy. im just hoping the clinic which seems to be the only one i can find is professional enough to help with my seizures.
thanks again for your time.
bornova.
 
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