vaccines and epilepsy

[hootie]

Watch for seizure risk with vaccines
:twocents:


Note: I split these posts off from another thread. Didn't want the original intent of the original thread to get lost by this tangent. - Bernard

 

[epileric]

Watch for seizure risk with vaccines
:twocents:

All the claims I've seen re. vaccines have been disproven yet I see a lot of people still trying to claim otherwise despite no scientific proof.

 

[hootie]

I think they are trying to avoid proving a connection...vaccines are big business
:twocents:

 

[epileric]

Actually in Canada & numerous other countries where the govt. pays for medical and vaccinations are much cheaper (never mind a less valued Canadian dollar) so they're not as big business as in the US yet there is no scientific proof of such associations.

 

[epileric]

Woops
:hj:

 

[Chel]

One of my seizure triggers is an ingredient in the fluvax here, so I'll be thinking long and hard this year before having the vaccine.

Last year I had the vaccine, but was so deep in constant sp seizures, I wouldn't have noticed the difference - this year, I would. However, I'm immunocompromised and work in high exposure workplaces, so need the vaccine or am likely to get the flu (and onwards to pneumonia). I'm in a catch-22 situation.

 

[hootie]

I can't post attachments yet...

There is an article at mercola . com about seizures that have been reported in children after receiving the flu vaccine...

...There have now been 36 confirmed reports of such seizures during the current flu season.

All of the seizures took place less than a day after the children were given Fluzone.

Supposedly, the FDA is investigating. HMMMM...I bet it will be concluded that there is no correlation.:tdown:

 

[Nakamova]

here's a link in the archives to an earlier posting of the flu article:

http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f22/flu-shots-febrile-seizures-kids-11443/

And here's a link to the article itself:
http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/heal...p1=Upbox_links

 

[RobinN]

http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f22/vaccine-related-seizures-2607/index4.html

http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f22/virus-connection-seizures-1220/

http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f22/mitochondrial-dysfunction-seizures-2849/

 

[epileric]

There is an article at mercola . com about seizures that have been reported in children after receiving the flu vaccine...

I find it hard to respect mercola as a medical professional. He is qualified as an osteopath who has no training in medical issues like vaccinations. He even has a disclaimer on his website that says we should not interpret his site as medical advice.

-Disclaimer: The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Mercola, unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Mercola and his community. Dr. Mercola encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified health care professional.

I also notice that there are very few references against vaccinations outside of the mercola site

 

[hootie]

Epileric--

How do you know he has no training on medical issues like vaccinations?

What is wrong with being an osteopath? Are MDs somehow gods that can not be wrong? Because they are MDs, does that make them smarter or more right than someone that is an osteopath? I don't understand your statement. I had three separate MDs tell me there was nothing wrong with my son and he is not autistic...even though he is.

What type of training do MDs get about vaccinations that makes them so special/smart/qualified? I think they learn the theory about how they *possibly* work (along with the rhetoric that they are safe and effective), and where to give them...and let the nurses give the shots. For some reason, they do seem to forget that people with a current illness should NOT receive vaccines (give it while the giving is good...the patient might not come back...).

Why do they have the parent sign a consent form??? It is another CYA tactic...in the event that there is a reaction...it can not be the doc's fault...the parent allowed it and they were informed of the risks (what risks???...I thought vaccines were safe and effective).

Many (most? all?) sites have the very disclaimer you mention...it is a CYA statement so that people can not be sued.

If you are interested, I can locate other sites that have references against vaccines.

I like Mercola because he reads and compiles articles and them posts them on his site so that we, as average citizens, can have access to them so we can make informed decisions about our healthcare. I think when we go to a "typical" doctor's office we are only getting one side of the issue (the one that the doctor/FDA/pharmaceutical companies want pushed). That is why I like "alternative" doctors...they try to collect ALL the facts and then make the best decision WITH the patient.

Doctor means TEACHER...not god.:twocents:

 

[RobinN]

Dr. Bernadine Healy is the former head of the National Institutes of Health, and the most well-known medical voice yet to break with her colleagues on the vaccine-autism question.

In an exclusive interview with CBS News, Healy said the question is still open.

"I think that the public health officials have been too quick to dismiss the hypothesis as irrational," Healy said.

"But public health officials have been saying they know, they've been implying to the public there's enough evidence and they know it's not causal," Attkisson said.

"I think you can't say that," Healy said. "You can't say that."

Healy goes on to say public health officials have intentionally avoided researching whether subsets of children are “susceptible” to vaccine side effects - afraid the answer will scare the public.

"You're saying that public health officials have turned their back on a viable area of research largely because they're afraid of what might be found?" Attkisson asked.

Healy said: "There is a completely expressed concern that they don't want to pursue a hypothesis because that hypothesis could be damaging to the public health community at large by scaring people. "First of all," Healy said, "I think the public’s smarter than that. The public values vaccines. But more importantly, I don’t think you should ever turn your back on any scientific hypothesis because you’re afraid of what it might show."

As an example, Healy points to the existing vaccine court claims.

CBS News has learned the government has paid more than 1,300 brain injury claims in vaccine court since 1988, but is not studying those cases or tracking how many of them resulted in autism.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/12/cbsnews_investigates/main4086809.shtml

 

[epileric]

Epileric--

How do you know he has no training on medical issues like vaccinations?

What is wrong with being an osteopath?

As an osteopath who is trained in muscles & bones I see no connection between that & vaccinations.

I never said that doctors are gods nor did I mean to imply that but if I am to take the advice of someone on vaccinations I would like someone who has spent years getting a degree in the functions & process of immunity rather than muscle and bones. It'd be like going to an oncologist to help with my seizures instead of a neurologist.

In a nutshell I dislike mercola because his claims contradict what is accepted by science and when someone trained in that field says that his claims are unsubstantiated, I listen. Every time a respected science based doctor mentions him he is referred to as a quack http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2116 Even Quackwatch is very familiar with him. Apparently he was rather dishonest with some of the claims of the supplements he sells.

In 2005, the FDA ordered Mercola and his Optimal Wellness Center to stop making illegal claims for products sold through his Web site [6]. The claims to which the FDA objected involved three products:

* Living Fuel Rx, claimed to offer an "exceptional countermeasure" against cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, autoimmune diseases, etc.
* Tropical Traditions Virgin Coconut Oil, claimed to reduce the risk of heart disease and has beneficial effects against Crohn's disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and many infectious agents
* Chlorella, claimed to fight cancer and normalize blood pressure.

This does not mean that all vaccinations are the the be all and end all. I think we should always be careful & not accept things blindly since there are certain contraindications but that applies to all sides of the debate.

 

[epileric]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/12/cbsnews_investigates/main4086809.shtml

Since that article was written the initial person who came up with the vaccine/autism theory has not only been misproven since nobody could reproduce his results but they have found. As well the test itself was flawed & the doctor (Wakefield) had conflicting interests.

It was a perfect storm of a story, coming as it did when autism rates were soaring, parents were tiring of seeing their children become pin-cushions for vaccines, and a new communications tool called the Internet was booming.

Scientists around the world diligently tried to reproduce the findings but never found any evidence of a link between MMR vaccine and autism.

With the passage of time, it became abundantly clear that the research was profoundly flawed, scientifically and ethically.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/andre-picard/medical-fraud-revealed-in-discredited-vaccine-autism-study/article1859560/

Again, I'm glad to question & not blindly accept things but I have seen no scientific proof of a connection to autism.

 

[hootie]

Your statement is like me asking--Why would I trust a pediatrician to know anything about the immune system? They only know things about kids. Ask a pediatrician how much time was spent on vaccine information...how much time on nutrition...how much time on immunology. I think you would be surprised at the answer (definitely not years...probably more like weeks).

I am a specialist in blood banking ("retired"). That does not mean that I know nothing about hematology, microbiology, coagulation, etc. There is a cross-over on things that you learn in the medical field even if it does not turn out to be your specialty.

My son's pediatrician told me to give my son cheese and yogurt even though he is very allergic to cow milk. Even a non-MD parent like me finds this a dangerous suggestion. I do not need an immunologist to tell me that I should not give my son dairy (but the immunologist did confirm my thoughts). Common sense is common sense (even some MDs lack it).

A lot of natural food substance have health-giving benefits--I think we would all be healthier if we ate healthier and got more involved in demanding that the powers that be stop messing with our natural food.

Studies are few on the benefits of natural substances because there is no profit in this market (you can not patent it). Only by changing the healthy substance into a drug and then doing expensive studies can you get FDA approval. Most drugs have side effects of some sort...but I guess people seem to turn a blind eye to this because they are *FDA approved*.

I don't think Mercola is being dishonest about the claims...they are most likely true. He just can not make the CLAIMS about product X having benefits for any condition because the FDA has not approved it. It is all about semantics. There will be studies out there to show that coconut oil has benefits, or that the antioxidants in Living Fuel can prevent cancer, etc...but he can not actually say that because it is an FDA no-no (semantics, semantics, semantics). But I do dislike him selling product because he then profits from the information he presents...and makes it seem less valid because he profits.

"Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food"--Hippocrates (the father of Western medicine).

I tend to keep an eye on the docs that Quackwatch highlights...they are pointing out some of the best docs out there (and yes there are many that are quacks as well).

 

[epileric]

Your statement is like me asking--Why would I trust a pediatrician to know anything about the immune system? They only know things about kids. Ask a pediatrician how much time was spent on vaccine information...how much time on nutrition...how much time on immunology. I think you would be surprised at the answer (definitely not years...probably more like weeks).

The difference is that a doctor would have the best access to look things up. Even my neurologist may not know all the side-effects of all AEDs but I feel he would have better access to reference the known side-effects than a cardiologist.

I am a specialist in blood banking ("retired"). That does not mean that I know nothing about hematology, microbiology, coagulation, etc. There is a cross-over on things that you learn in the medical field even if it does not turn out to be your specialty.

I understand there is a crossover but wouldn't you know most about the medical aspect you specialize in?

A lot of natural food substance have health-giving benefits--I think we would all be healthier if we ate healthier and got more involved in demanding that the powers that be stop messing with our natural food.

I never said that food substances don't have health benefits. Please don't imply I did.

Studies are few on the benefits of natural substances because there is no profit in this market (you can not patent it). Only by changing the healthy substance into a drug and then doing expensive studies can you get FDA approval. Most drugs have side effects of some sort...but I guess people seem to turn a blind eye to this because they are *FDA approved*.

Actually, you can patent natural things as long as the substance has the same percentage of ingredients. Somebody has a patent to a specific lavender but it has to have the same ratio of ingredients in it. I don't remember the natural chemicals involved but it was a 60/40 ratio.

I don't think Mercola is being dishonest about the claims...they are most likely true. He just can not make the CLAIMS about product X having benefits for any condition because the FDA has not approved it. It is all about semantics. There will be studies out there to show that coconut oil has benefits, or that the antioxidants in Living Fuel can prevent cancer, etc...but he can not actually say that because it is an FDA no-no (semantics, semantics, semantics).

You're saying that his claims are not proven yet which is why he can't make claims. I would be much more comfortable using a food or supplement that has been proven rather than take something on faith that it will be proven. He is also known amongst scientists to be very unscientific

Joseph Mercola, D.O. should be well known to readers of SBM for reflexively opposing science-based medicine while providing an endless stream of misinformation on his blog, advocating detoxification, homeopathy, the tapping of meridians chiropractic and more at his clinic, and peddling a treasure trove of vitamin supplements, foods, and Mercola-endorsed devices (on sale at his site for your convenience, no conflict of interest there!).

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=4482

But I do dislike him selling product because he then profits from the information he presents...and makes it seem less valid because he profits.

I do agree. Especially if he's going to claim the reason that there is no research is because there's no money in it.

As for Quackwatch, they just tell you who makes outrageous claims or who is being sued (like Mercola by the FDA) and they always substantiate their claims with links to the appropriate sites.

 

[hootie]

I'm sure they all have access to look things up(heck, I can even Google and find the side effects of a particular drug)...no matter what their specialty...it is all a matter of the effort put into it...Your neurologist SHOULD know the side effects of AEDs if he/she is prescribing...and all docs should have access to the PDR. I'm guessing if you use that logic then actually the pharmacist should know the most about ANY drug...and you should ONLY get your information from the pharmacist because they specialize in drugs.

As far as Mercola...I am saying that the claims are proven (for example...coconut oil has certain benefits and there are studies out there to show it), but when you are selling coconut oil you can not say coconut oil can cure or treat a certain condition. It is all about how you WORD your "claims"...it does not mean your claims are not true.

 

[epileric]

I'm sure they all have access to look things up(heck, I can even Google and find the side effects of a particular drug)...no matter what their specialty...it is all a matter of the effort put into it...Your neurologist SHOULD know the side effects of AEDs if he/she is prescribing...and all docs should have access to the PDR. I'm guessing if you use that logic then actually the pharmacist should know the most about ANY drug...and you should ONLY get your information from the pharmacist because they specialize in drugs.

No, I would expect an osteopath to know what are the appropriate references to find info re. bones & muscles plus what they already know.

I would worry if someone uses the net for medical advice. It has a lot to offer but I feel it needs to be researched & confirmed elsewhere. Like I said, for everything the net says, there's something to contradict it. That means I could find anything to say whatever I want there.

As far as Mercola...I am saying that the claims are proven (for example...coconut oil has certain benefits and there are studies out there to show it), but when you are selling coconut oil you can not say coconut oil can cure or treat a certain condition. It is all about how you WORD your "claims"...it does not mean your claims are not true.

I would double check that. The one time I was able to get on his site (I can't get on without joining now) the only backing for proof he had for any issue was a link to another page on his site. That's like saying that it's true because I said it before.

 

[hootie]

What is wrong with Googling to find the ACTUAL product insert of a particular drug to find out its side effects? Does this mean that this is misinformation because you found it on the net??? It is the EXACT information that my doctor should have access to...and is the information that is found in the PDR that my doc and pharmacist should have access to (I think you can even buy your own on Amazon or look on-line at PDR.net). There is nothing wrong with being an informed patient...and remember medical advice is ADVICE not a demand from the doctor. It is in your best interest to be an informed patient so you can make the best medical decisions for yourself.

Mercola usually references the research articles he has read in the body of piece he is writing...

And now back to the original subject...vaccines can cause or exacerbate seizures...so be careful...and if you want to read the product inserts of the vaccines to find out adverse effects...

vaccinesafety . edu/ package_inserts.htm

 

[epileric]

As I've said, nothing wrong with googling anything, just to be aware that anybody can post anything hence I would be careful to accept everything at face value and be aware who is posting it. You can find sites on the net to say anything you want so it's not necessarily accurate.


Great link, Thanks