Pseudoseizures?!

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Recently I was in the hospital with a string of 10 seizures in two days. They were not sure why I was getting them so often. Then the doctor caught one while he was talking to me in the hospital. He called it a pseudoseizures. A stress induce kind that I am aware... but unaware kind of. I can hear people, but I can't communicate. He immediately rushed me out of the hospital hoping it would stop the seizures and it did. I went 24 hours without one! The thing is the littlest stress or noise drives me to have a seizure. Anyone else have these kinds of seizures. Some people think since it says its "a false seizure" then I am doing it on purpose. Help Please!? They say that the reason these seizures are brought on by a traumatic event. In my case it was bone cancer at 16, but I don't really talk about my depressed feelings about it. Only things that I do talk about are the ones that made me at least a little happy. Like when the wnba Houston Comets came to visit the hospital or wheelchair races with other patients, things like that. Can someone relate to me? Thanks - TexasMommy
 
I know that when I get stressed out about things I am more prone to having one. Usually around the holidays I'll have more than I usually do because of all the stress that is going on with getting everything ready.

It's usually a bigger stressful event that will cause one with me, not just something little, but I can believe that happens.

Also too sometimes when I will have one I know what's going on but what I think I'm saying or doing isn't what's actually going on. I will think that I am saying something but what's coming out of my mouth is just mumbling.

I've also had one in the grocery store before and when I've came out of it I'll end up with all sorts of stupid things in the buggy
 
Hello, Texasmommy. I am currently dealing with similar seizures and can relate to stress making it worse. I also deal with major depression from multiple issues abuse, finances, disabled child my own physical disabilities. Talking is hard I KNOW but it can help it and has helped me with my PTSD and I am trying to find a new counselor that will hopefully help me with these dumb seizures.

Hang in there I truly admire your courage sharing about your cancer, please remember you are a survivor.

God Bless,

John Runer
 
I truly wish doctors would properly diagnose and deal with psychogenic/pseudoseizures instead of writing people off that have them. They have just as profound an effect on the body as an E or other non-E type of seizure and can still do harm depending on how they are expressed. There is also the possibility that a person is having both E and non E seizures. A person who arrives in an ER or a doctor office with this presention is not "wasting time" (or money) in most instances...they truly require help and should be given it accordingly. Yeah...it's a pet peeve of mine since I was misdiagnosed with this type of seizure by my first neuro and experienced the incompetent mishandling of it in both the ER and office situation.

Find a good counselor/ therapist. One you are comfortable with and can open up to completely...completely is very important. Someone you would NEVER interact with on any social level whatsoever, keep them a stranger; never a friend. My therapist was the one who determined my seizures were NOT psychogenic and spent more time doing damage control on what the neuro was telling me and helping me to cope with all of the changes and upheaval I was going through. That in itself was worth every dime :)
 
I think doctors rush to make the diagnosis of "pseudoseizures" without properly understanding themselves, or communicating effectively about them to patients.

#1. They aren't called pseudoseizures, but Psychogenic Non-Epileptic Seizures. This is because they are not "fake" seizures, just ones that aren't generated by misfiring electricity in the brain. They have real physical manifestations and are usually tied to some sort of PTSD.

#2. People can suffer from both PNES and epileptic seizures. A diagnosis of one does not rele out the other.

#3. EEGs can generate false positives and false negatives. There are other diagnostic markers (involving loss of consciousness, closing eyes, blood changes), but even these are not conclusive.

Either way, your doctor should make it clear to you and others that you aren't faking these, they are real, and it's important to treat them appropriately.
 
I did have an EEG done and my doctor is one of the few who is saying that "she is not faking it!" I do have complex and pseudoseizures he said. I do have a therapist that I am comfortable with, but its going to take time for me to completely open to him I think. He knows that I am not faking it, just some people I know who think that they are doctors because of the internet. *sigh* I am see him on a weekly basses, so I think its helping. The reason he said that I needed to get out of the hospital was it was making me worse by hearing the "code blues" and the needles and everything was making them worse. I think I would still be there if the doctor hadn't seen me have one. Luckily I have a loving and very understanding family that knows that I am not faking it, its just certain people that I see once and a while, but I don't care (much).
I am a survivor, so I am participating in the San Antonio Susan Koman Walk Marathon. I don't think I will have any problems... right?
 
Just make sure to eat right, stay hydrated (sports drinks are a good idea for the elctrolyters), and get plenty of sleep. Walk with a buddy if you're nervous. You should be fine. I hope you have a great marathon!
 
Hi Mom, From some of what you say, it seems like you are experiencing some common seizure triggers:

Stress

Stress can increase cortisol, known as “the stress hormone” because cortisol is secreted in higher levels during the body’s “fight or flight” response to stress. And it’s responsible for several stress-related changes in the body which also may influence seizure activity.

Negative emotions related to stress, such as anger, worry or fright, may also cause seizures. This happens because the limbic system, the portion of the brain that regulates emotion, is one of the most common places for seizures to begin.

Aural Seizures

Just hearing a sound, a certain frequency, or combination of sounds can set someone off. So between the stress of the hospital and all the bings and rings, it's easy to see why you reacted as you did.

"Pseudo Seizures"

Seizures that are psychological in origin are often called psychogenic seizures. These seizures are most likely triggered by emotional stress or trauma. Some people with epilepsy have psychogenic seizures in addition to their epileptic seizures. It’s a legitimate seizure and should be treated that way, but it is not caused by a problem in the brain.
 
I'm reading all these stories and wondering, how are these doctors dx patients? Are the patients having LTM EEGs??

My husband has both epileptic seizures (grand mal) and non epileptic seizures. He was dx with PNES last year at this time. The neurologists hooked him up for inpatient EEG and he had a seizure which was caught on camera however there was no abnormal electrical charges on the EEG.

His neurologist said no AEDs will help non epileptic seizures. It has to be done through stress reduction techniques, Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT)which is what he is doing right now with his therapist. We keep saying we're going to attend a yoga/meditation class at a Buddha temple near our house but have yet to get there.

My husband isn't really a stressed out person but I'd call him more nervous/anxious which can definitely create stress. He has been in a really good spot with his stress but recently had a week of seizures. He missed a week of work which then brings stress when he returns...it seems like it never ends.

I came here looking for information on neurofeedback to see if I could learn how that would help his stress level. I am hopeful and so is his neurologist that he will get these non epileptic seizures under control but it is a lot of work and there is no magic pill for this. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't have a lot of patience for this stuff, so it has been and will continue to be a slwo process.
 
I came here looking for information on neurofeedback to see if I could learn how that would help his stress level. I am hopeful and so is his neurologist that he will get these non epileptic seizures under control but it is a lot of work and there is no magic pill for this. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't have a lot of patience for this stuff, so it has been and will continue to be a slow process.

My daughter did a year + of neurofeedback. I witnessed how with changes in therapy, her sleep patterns changed, her focus, her emotions, etc. We were asked to keep track of the positives and negatives, and the therapy was adjusted accordingly.

I agree... there is no magic pill. My daughter also did not have a lot of patience. She is working on it though. For her, making changes in her nutritional choices has increased her seizure threshold.
 
Hello.
My twin Sis and I have complex partial seizures since age 6. But while in college, I lived up the street from my long time friend Austin. There were five of us and we all went to the School for the Blind. We got a long real well. BUT Austin started talking, asking lots of questions about Epilepsy and my seizure type which I though was harmless.
Well the day that we got our EEG results, he started acting a little too strangely. We went on a ride to the vet to take care of my doggie when he started acting like he had or was having a partial seizure of some sort, shaking half way, and scared a lady in front of him. I asked him what was the deal and he didn't respond well, just a huh? like he fell asleep.
From then on he would go into a "seizure like event" and he made several trips to the E.R. with no help from the doctors, even a neuro. They didn't know what to do with him knowing that there were not real and nothing really changed with his body besides him moving around.
The episodes were so frequent that he was admitted to I.C.U for observation and treatment where they gave him 4 different AEDs, even two or three altogether and basically made him sleepy and half high and smelled of the medications, sort of like post-surgery.
He had many seizure-like episodes, sometimes 16 convulsive events that no one could stop- no even high doses of AEDs! Someone with an Epileptic seizure would be considered in Status Epilepticus and can be fatal.
One time, I went to visit him in the hospital, which I knew would be an odd trip. He heard me walking with my guide dog Umbro down the hall way after getting out of the elevator. Not even 10secs of being in his room, he started it up all over again. He had them so often that even the nurses stopped going into his room. At the nurses' station, they have monitors with EKG, vitals and O2 etc info on the screens. They can see right away if something goes down. No change in any of his vitals that would cause alarm or require treatment.
No one knew what to do. I actually told Austin "You know, they have a better time telling a seizure if you have it during an EEG." Boy.. he took that to that real quick. He was scheduled for an EEG that day to see what was up. Not even hooked up totally to the EEG did he go into one of his episodes.
He was diagnosed with non-epileptic seizures or PNES Psychogenic non-epileptic seizures. To me, honestly I don't think its even that. For him to start this after hearing of our diagnosis, results of EEG and other testing, it seems like its a cry for attention. The stress he is dealing with is mainly death of family members and the knowledge of his twin bother's health condition and possible death at an early age.
To me, that would be enough to require serious counseling and medication! I have a identical twin sis and I could not imagine living without her- we are just too "connected". We both even died while hours old- every time we were separated. I died and she died as if we knew "One of us died! I'm not staying here alone sis".
Anyway.. sorry for such a long post, but my friend Austin is no longer a best friend to me. My last semester in college was a living hell, and I knew that Austin was totally acting out- not experiencing PNES but true malingering and went so far as to have an event after I had a complex partial and went to sleep. I woke up to him at the end of my bed, on the floor, crying and saying "I don't like this!" and having his wife holding him, asking him awareness questions.
To find out more, I experimented a little and told him on another occasion, "Austin, when most people have these events, they will remember what people say and be able to remember things after it." Now, knowing that someone with Epileptic seizures would never be able to tell every little detail, even complex partial seizures, I waited until he had another one. A friend recited a simple kid's song and story in which Austin remembered every detail, better than I did!
I am in NO way telling those with Non-Epileptic Seizures that they are making fun of those with Epilepsy or faking. People with PNES are simply have seizure like events as a way for their bodies to cope with a stressor or serious life changing event etc.- but someone that is malingering (what Austin did) is just doing wrong and it upsets me. Austin would have a seizure like event just at the fact you say the word. Or be on the phone and say: "Austin you don't sound too good."
Now someone with real PNES or Non-Epileptic seizures probably would never have this kind of seizure reaction, but seizures due to high levels of stress, trauma or serious problems with health such as cancer or other life-threatening conditions that might take their lives, might act as a trigger. But I am no neuro or specialist, so there is much for me to learn.
I hope this makes sense and I haven't offended anyone- I do apologize if I did. Its hard to sort of explain my thought about PNES compared to malingering (plain out acting out and lying and copying someone's real seizures/medical condition.)

Austin is still on an AED which hasn't helped him. I ask him every once in a while how he is. He doesn't really have these events anymore- especially after the diagnosis. Which is real common with people with PNES (real seizure like reaction to a trigger) and seizure like episodes such as Austin's events.

Another thought I had about Austin was the fact that he had these seizure like events in front of every person on campus that he knew, or that I knew. Now this probably wouldn't happen with someone with legitimate PNES that is caused by a trigger of some sort.
EMS was called out so often, that they knew his name! EMS also mentioned that is was real strange that he had no scratches or injuries of any kind- when with a real seizure, there would have been at least a broken nose or cut from falling on their faces or hitting something on the way down.

SO... sorry for again writing such a lllloooonnnggg post here- but there is still more to this story than what I wrote here.
Austin is also known for acting out in relation to other disabilities that I have. Most everyone that knows him, seems to know that he tends to lie to get attention etc.

Everyone, if you're still reading this, you might be asleep right now LOL
Thank you for being patient with me in writing all of this. I hope that it make sense and that it might help someone in the future.
Again, if I offended anyone with anything I wrote- please PM me or let me know..

Everyone, take care and be safe.
Have a good nite.
Crystal and her guide Umbro
 
Oh wow.... I get these. People tell me I'm faking it or doing it on purpose but really I just can't communicate or move or look at anything in particular for a little bit. I get absences but these ones are the most common. I have PTSD and have been told by a psychologist that these certain ones could be a result of that. So I am unsure. I get them when I am triggered by something.... a noise.... someone that looks like a certain someone... It's really annoying because I get told off all the time. I can't help it.
 
Robin,

That's great about your daughter. I would love to hear more!! Has your daughter learned techniques to help avert the seizures by chance?
 
THis will probably be a long post and I apologize to all. I think the whole psychogenic seizure thing is just a pet peeve of mine :roll:

I was dignosed with these for almost 2 yrs. I made me angry to be told that what was going on was all in my head because for the life of me i couldn't figure out WHAT at that point in time psychologically would cause my body to react in such a drastic manner...I had been through some serious stuff in my past and dealt with it with out seizures playing any roll. Angry as I was I was willing to accept the neuro's dx and go to the psych and get whataver was wrong with me fixed because I hated the sez's and the stutter more than anything else in the world. SO I went to the psych with a dx of PTSD. My psychogenic sezs were called that because I had a stutter and I had had a sez in the dr office which did not result in incontinence or biting my tonge, a video EEG had come back inconclusive and he felt that what was found on my MRI was due to technician error vs any physical defect. At the end of my first session the psych told me I did not have PTSD, that my stutter was not psychogenic and he doubted that my seizures were either. However, I was suffereing from slight depression in trying to deal with all of the upheaval the sezs had caused in my life and he was more than happy to treat me for that. So, the war commenced between the 2 drs.

These are the "typical" signs of psychogenic seizures according to my psych at that time, if I'm breaking rules or something please feel free to edit my post :) :

  1. Sez attempt will be T/C type
    Body may rock/shake back in forth
    Eyes may be closed
    Stutter may present post-ictal
    Sezs rarely result in serious injury
    Seizures occur around or near others
    Incontinence and tonge biting may be involved
    Will often have visual sez but no brain act. on a Video EEG
    Respond to anti anxiety meds vs aeds

Now, # 1, 4 and 5 have applied to me. The only serious injury I've had is broken ribs, other than that it has been a lot of sprains, pulled muscles bumps and bruises and a few good knowcks to the head.
I know everyone has hear me talk about my stutter and yes, it is a fixation but it is what DOOMED me in the beginning. I am a verbal person, having aphasia drives me nuts. My stutter isn't/ wasn't "typical" and that is what the neuro failed to realized when he made his dx. My stutter is aphasia on hyperdrive. When I first come out of a seizure I can't talk at all...I can't find any words. When I can finally start to vocalize I start to word scan, physically and mentally...I repeat the word or sound I am on over and over again until I can find the next one I am looking for, sometimes the right one comes out, sometimes it doesn't. It eventually goes away now but 12 yrs ago I had a seizure and when I came out of it I was stuck in that stuttering feedback loop for 4 yrs. Let me tell you, people either look at you like you are nuts or with great pity after you have said the word "and" 10-15 times and finally give up and hold your hands out palms up and shrug your shoulders :(

People with psychogenic seizures DO need help, they have a problem they don't know how to deal with on their own...that is okay, it doesn't mean you are crazy, it just means you don't have the skills to cope with what is going on below the surface. In the same vein, before you let your seizures get labled as this type make sure you are evaluated by the appropriate type of doctor. A neurologist can't make this type of dx on their own, it isn't in their field of expertise nor can a PCP. It is a mental AND physical health problem and needs to be addressed by both sides. As has benn mentioned on here before you can have both and that definitely needs to be sorted out as well. Hope all goes well for any and all conderned. I know this is one of those things that weighs on many peoples minds...heck, even i wonder sometimes if maybe neuro #1 was right and I still try to figure out a way to fix myself :roll:
 
Wow, I have to say, David's neuro has been so supportive with the PNES. She has NEVER made us feel like he's crazy or that he is faking it.

David's non-epileptic sz started as what I would call baby or mini sz. They were done before I could run across the room or sit up in bed to realize what was going on. Now they have morphed into what I consider grand mal sz. He doesn't bite his tongue though. I asked his neuro why have they morphed from something so harmless to this and she explained but honestly I wasn't listening since she called my cell when we were in the hospital.

He did hurt himself the other day, he dropped on the floor and smacked his forehead...poor guy! I noticed he has very little warning when something is going to happen; whereas with his regular epilepsy seizures, he usually has about 30 minutes warning - he takes ativan which usually stops the sz but won't stop a non-epileptic sz.

I've done a lot of research since he was dx last year with non epileptic sz. Dr. Curt LaFrance at Rhode Island Hospital has done a lot of research. We tried getting an appt with him. Too much red tape with his office - we sent the medical records over and LaFrance agreed to meet with David but office came back and said Cigna said doctor was not in our network. I called Cigna and they said he was and I even called Hospital and they said they accept Cigna. I told Dr. office we'd pay out of pocket and they never returned my calls.
 
Robin,

That's great about your daughter. I would love to hear more!! Has your daughter learned techniques to help avert the seizures by chance?


There is a link to her story in my signature.

I believe that NFB helped her begin her recovery, however she has a blood sugar imbalance that we are working to improve through nutrition. NFB can help reduce sugar cravings.

Our problem from day one, is that Rebecca has no memory of ever having the seizure, nor does she remember what led up to it or how she felt. So she has no means in which to avert them.
 
Wow reading this gives me lots of thoughts. Now I was diagnosed originally with abscon? seizures. I had an EEG at a local hospital that had definite stuff showing while I was in a seizure. So from there because of that I was sent to a bigger hospital. At the new hospital I had a 4 day (which was only supposed to be 24 hour) video monitoring EEG. When my husband and mother in law came to the hospital they came in while I was having a seizure and saw the monitor going crazy. They called the doctor and that doctor said that it definitely looked like seizure activity to him.
I was released from the hospital 3 days later with psychogenic seizures and told to find a councelor. I found a councelor and that councelor says that I am coping with quite a bit of stress but he doesn't believe that these seizures are psychogenic. (Oh ya when I left the hospital the doctor put me on seizure medicine just to be sure he said).

Anyway I have an appointment with a new neurologist on the 2nd and I hope he is a lot more help than these guys have been.

The part that bothers me the most is I will have bites on the inside of my mouth inner cheeks and tongue and when I see the psychologist and tell him he just keeps telling me to tell my family dr, which I do.

So here is the major thought that I have, how do I convince people that I am not faking? It really irritates me to have to explain things to people.
 
Wow reading this gives me lots of thoughts. Now I was diagnosed originally with abscon? seizures. I had an EEG at a local hospital that had definite stuff showing while I was in a seizure.

So here is the major thought that I have, how do I convince people that I am not faking? It really irritates me to have to explain things to people.

You have both epilepsy and NEAD (non epileptic attack disorder.) I have both, as well.

If the EEG showed up seizures, then you have epilepsy. You also have NEAD. You have both. I hope your second neurologist does better at treating you.

Outside of the forum, I do not tell people that I have NEAD seizures. I do not know how to explain it to others either.

The way I would explain it to other people. I would tell people that it is a real condition (which it is) and that I need to go to a therapist to get treated.
 
Thanks for that. I get really frustrated when I tell somebody about my seizures and why I am going to counceling and they go off half cocked thinking that I have munchhausen syndrome (or hypochondria).
 
Melissa, I'm concerned with your diagnosis. If you had a seizure while being monitored and your brain was showing electrical discharge on the EEG, you are having a 'real' seizures, not a psychogenic seizure!!

David had seizures (video) but the EEG results did not show any electrical discharge the times that he was seizing. That is how the neurologist dx him with non epileptic seizures.
 
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