Would appreciate advice - aided person today

[Montag]

Hi - I do not suffer from epilepsy, but an experience today has brought me to consult this forum.

I was eating my lunch at McDonalds, and a well-dressed gentleman was seated next to me. He was shifting in his seat, acting generally uncomfortable. His hands then started twitching. I asked if he was okay and he smiled and said "yes." He then stood up and was holding on to the back of his seat, while his body started moving even more erratically - legs, arms, head and trunk. He then suddenly fell to the floor. I held him under his arms to stabilize him. I have never seen anyone suffer a fit before, neither do I know anyone who suffers from epilepsy, but I knew that the important thing to do was to prevent him from injuring himself. I allowed him to lie on the floor while I prevented his head from hitting anything. Luckily there was a doctor there, so I held him while she reassured him. Someone took some numbers from his phone while we waited for the ambulance, so I believe the crew got his emergency contact info.

His convulsions lasted for a good 10-15 minutes, and they were continuing after the ambulance crew left with him in a stretcher, having given him oxygen. It has been playing on my mind since. Luckily he did not bite his tongue or vomit, and a couple of times he looked at me directly as I held him - his eyes were open. I heard one of the medics say "this isn't a seizure."

Anyway, please pardon my lack of knowledge - does this have the hallmarks of an epileptic fit? Should he be okay? It was very progressive in the way it developed over a few minutes. Since then ( only about four hours ago) I have been doing a lot of reading on the internet about it. Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Hosea]

Right thing

you did the right thing no matter what the cause. I'm not a doctor. I'm a patient
if ever I show signs, please be near. That fellow may never remember your face.
That's the case with me and epilepsy, so thanks. Now relax HERO:mrt: and continue on with life. Someone like that fellow or one of us may need you soon.
Matter of fact, tell your friends what you did and how simple it was. Tell them not to become alarm. Just do the right thing and save a LIFE. THANKS:e::e::e:

 

[RobinN]

Hi Montag - That man was very lucky to have you there. Such a kind gesture on your part. You have received another feather in your angel wings.

I personally feel that the medic was incorrect in his "diagnosis". They play doctors far too often. My daughter does not vomit, bite her tongue (most of the time), or wet herself. This seems to through the EMTs in our area off kilter. They seem to have a textbook picture of what a seizure looks like. I think there are as many different "looks" to this disorder as there are personalities.

Just for your information, the new term for fit is seizure. Tonic Clonic is the new term for Grand Mal. It all can certainly be confusing, especially when you have never seen one. I hadn't either when my daughter had her first one.

I am sure that man was just trying to get out of the public view, when he realized that the aura (prior feelings) was not going to go away. Again... he was lucky to have you sitting nearby. Wish I cold tell him that eating at MacDonalds is not helping his disorder at all.

If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask. This is what is so important to all of us that have loved ones or are dealing with this disorder. Public awareness.
Thank you for looking us up, and being brave enough to reach out. We all appreciate that.

 

[Montag]

Thanks - I was actually struck by the fact that although this happened in the middle of New York city, many different people did what they could to help, so it was not just me. Some teenage girls went through his phone and wrote down numbers. A couple seated nearby called the ambulance again to make sure it was on time. A lady nearby who was a doctor did a great job in talking to the gentleman and lending her jacket to put under his head. Someone found his name badge and called his work. The McDonalds manager called the ambulance and helped me hold him.

Thanks for the advice - if anything I know more about epilepsy than I did before and I know that the gentleman received prompt treatment.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

It is brilliant what you have just done, a lot of people shy away from epilepsy, but you helped a man when he really needed it. Don't sell youself short, I know you said that there was a lot of people around helping, but you were the one physically dealing with the man and he was very lucky to have you. :clap:

Welcome to CWE, you will certainly find a lot of information about epilepsy on this site. So hang around and have a read for a while, you never know when you might get called upon again.

Sssshhhhhhh don't tell Robin, but I had a Mcdonalds for dinner last night.

 

[RobinN]

I heard that..
See... I don't even know that there is no "A" in the "Mc" of the name.
I simply do not go to these businesses, since Rebecca had her first seizure.

 

[joey]

Hi - I do not suffer from epilepsy, but an experience today has brought me to consult this forum.

I was eating my lunch at McDonalds, and a well-dressed gentleman was seated next to me. He was shifting in his seat, acting generally uncomfortable. His hands then started twitching. I asked if he was okay and he smiled and said "yes." He then stood up and was holding on to the back of his seat, while his body started moving even more erratically - legs, arms, head and trunk. He then suddenly fell to the floor. I held him under his arms to stabilize him. I have never seen anyone suffer a fit before, neither do I know anyone who suffers from epilepsy, but I knew that the important thing to do was to prevent him from injuring himself. I allowed him to lie on the floor while I prevented his head from hitting anything. Luckily there was a doctor there, so I held him while she reassured him. Someone took some numbers from his phone while we waited for the ambulance, so I believe the crew got his emergency contact info.

His convulsions lasted for a good 10-15 minutes, and they were continuing after the ambulance crew left with him in a stretcher, having given him oxygen. It has been playing on my mind since. Luckily he did not bite his tongue or vomit, and a couple of times he looked at me directly as I held him - his eyes were open. I heard one of the medics say "this isn't a seizure."

Anyway, please pardon my lack of knowledge - does this have the hallmarks of an epileptic fit? Should he be okay? It was very progressive in the way it developed over a few minutes. Since then ( only about four hours ago) I have been doing a lot of reading on the internet about it. Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

I think you are a great person to want to further your knowledge for the sake of another persons well being, as you were describing the mans twitching etc. i understood right away what he must have been going through. I hate the word "fit" but thats just me. anyways there is not much you can do for a person having a seizure other than move objects that may hurt him and to just reassure him or her that they will be ok. Do not stick objects in mouth and do not stick your fingers in there because i bite hard and will bite it off. thanks for wanting to know about our disease.

 

[Belinda5000]

I commend you for helping someone that was having a seizure. I don't like word fit myself.
You can definitely have a seizure when your eyes are open,I once had an EMT tell me it wasn't a sz I had because my eyes were open.
Your smart not letting him hurt himself during the seizure, not everyone knows that.
Belinda

 

[skillefer]

Well done Montag! You did exactly the right thing. Be happy in that knowledge, as well as the fact that you got to see the better angels of our nature in others. As for the EMT, I think that they are jumping the gun in diagnosing.

 

[Meetz1064]

Montag, you

ARE an angel!!! This man is lucky to have had you nearby...you did exactly the right things, without even really knowing. Congratulations. People like you deserve all the kudos that we E patients can possibly give you.

And the EMT was WRONG. It WAS a seizure. Whether or not the eyes are open doesn't matter......

 

[Crystal11]

Great work! We all would hope others out there would do the same as you did. The description you gave us seems almost like Status epilepticus since it was 10-15min seizure non-stop. The person's eyes are supposed to be opened since you have no control over that. Even during Complex partials your eyes are opened and cannot be closed. Sometimes they use that to tell weather a seizure is genuin or not- obviously your eyes are going to be closed after it while you sleep etc.

Anyways- I would never understand why an EMT would say it wasn't a seizure since they are not the doctor in the ER evaluating someone- its a seizure on scene anyways. Weather its epileptic in nature or not would be seen on testing and or evaluataions and history at ER or stay in the hospital.

GREAT WORK!
You are provided a gift to society by being educated and being able to help in a scary situation. I'm sure this man will be greatful to you.

Take care, welcome to CWE
-Crystal and her guide, Umbro (Bark bark!)

 

[Montag]

Thanks everyone - I now know to use the word "seizure" - I can understand how "fit" is not preferred by most! Since I explained the incident, my family and friends are now more aware as a result, and would know how to act, what to expect etc. I can see how important it is to for others to understand a very misunderstood condition, and I wish you all the very best. :e::e::e:

 

[drarvindr]

Dear Montag ,
The seizure (and it is a seizure , as opposed to the medics' view- and i am a doctor) is a classical grand mal tonic clonic. The term we use for this is a "jacksonian march". The seizure begins in the part of the brain that represents the hand and then "moves" to all the parts of the body. This is because the hand has the greatest motor representation in the brain followed by the face and then the rest of the body. So hand twitching followed by facial tics followed by total body convulsions is classical of a jacksonian march.
You did the right thing under the circumstances and your desire to further you knowledge about our condition fills me with hope , as you are among the few who care enough to learn , as most of the world views us in an out-of-sight-out-of-mind kind of way.

 

[BoudicaWV]

Did your vns cause severe weight loss, organ shut down and more seizures. mine has and i have had it for 1 year and the doctors tell me if i don't get it out its going to kill me a rare and complicated case. Thats what every neurologist has told me. Good luck with your vns. Just out of curisoty what is your callibrations on your vns?
kim

 

[Rose]

Something similar happened in downtown Portland. A man was coming off the Max and as he walked to the sidewalk, he collapsed. Having GTCs myself, I know what they look like. I was with my partner and our 19 yr old son Dustin. I handed my son the cell while my partner and I made the man comfortable while he went through the seizure. At any rate, people started gathering and crowding us, asking what happened...at this point I was starting to have a panic attack(I am an agoraphobic and this was one of the first ventures into downtown I had taken on public transportation) so my son told the people that everything was ok and that the Medical Unit was on it's way...a kid asked him how he knew it was going to be alright and Dustin said"My mom has epilepsy and my brother taught me what to do when she has a seizure" but also that they all needed to move back and not crowd around, not just so the paramedics could get in but so that I didn't have a panic attack. The paramedics asked how we knew what to do and I told them I have had seizures since I was a teenager. The man looked up at us and thanked us when he was coherent enough to speak.

Peaceful Hugs,
Rose

 

[brain]

:clap:

Job well done, and much Kudos to You! And I am
frankly surprised with the Doctor who was ALSO
there - did not get after the MEDIC for making
that "snide" remark!



The Medic deserved one from the Medical Doctor
right then and there!

::: sulks :::

You are a HERO! And Stick Around In CWE and
Learn Even More ... Knowledge, Enlightenment,
and More ---> and one day, you can become a
Strong Epilepsy Advocate and help in dispelling
all these nonsense, obnoxious "spurts" of idiosyn-
craziness made by others, and so much more!

We need people like YOU and MORE!

:cheers: and welcome to CWE!