New here. Can you tell me what this might mean?

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Hi all,

My daughter had a major seizure about 5 years ago and was put on Carbatrol. (EEG done about a week later had what they called Sharp Bursts , I think)

Since then she has had several episodes of dizziness which I don't think is really dizziness. She describes it has a numb feeling at the base of her skull that runs up to the top of her head, , weakness, and things sounding like she is under water. This had been treated as vertigo

Recently she had a spell of this that included slurred speech. After a trip to the ER where they confirmed it was NOT a stroke, we were sent to a new neurologist.

A new EEG was done and it shows, what they called Epileptic Discharges.

So, can someone tell me in laymen's term what that means?

I had always thought the seizure was a stand-alone event, with the continued EEG findings, does that mean she has epilepsy?

Thanks!!!
 
I did a little looking on the internet to see what an epileptic discharge is. I'm not a dr so I don't know if what I'm going to describe to you is right or not. If it's not then someone please correct me or even ask the dr if what I'm describing to you is right.

When someone has an EEG the lines on the EEG should be normal or straight. A person without epilepsy or someone with epilepsy not during a seizure is what it should look like.

When something happens - a seizure, stroke (you said that's what it isn't though) or a few other things that I read the lines will start to 'jag' or move up and down. They don't stay strait any more. This could last for only a few seconds or longer, the whole time the seizure (or whatever it could be) lasts. When it's over the lines will go back to being straight again. This might occur in one part of the brain or in several.

People could have only one seizure a day or several. They might happen very close together or hours apart, you never know. There are several different types of seizures. There are small sort of like your daughter is describing that last a few seconds, some people will just stare and don't respond to anything which could last longer and there are they type where you will shake. Depending on what type of epilepsy you have is what type of seizure you have.

Somethings that happen before, during and after are hard to describe to people without epilepsy.

Almost all the seizures I have are Partial Seizures. Sometimes before a seizure I'll have some of the things happen to me that your daughter is describing which is called an aura. I'll go into the seizure a little after that. I might just stay in one place and stare. I could get up and do things but I don't know what I'm doing. If I try to talk what I say doesn't come out as words, more or less slurred speech. I don't know that I'm doing any of this and I don't even know it happened when I come out of the seizure. My seizures usually last anywhere from 3 to 10 minutes. Usually after the seizure I have a horrible headache and I'm very tired.

Like I said, I'm not a dr and what I described to you is only the way I understood things by looking them up on the internet. I hope this helps you a little.
 
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Hi Valeriedl! Thanks for the reply. When she had the first seizure she was a little off and I knew something was not right. I just didnt' know what. That phase lasted about 5 hours then she went into a full clonic/tonic (grand mal) seizure during sleep. The "spells" sense then she has the weird feelings and tells me about the feleings, they just don't progress to anything. (I am thankful for that) I wonder if others experience similiar things where you go through the "aura" and nothing else happens?

Also, do others on the forum has abnormal EEGs while they are on medication?

I hope to have copies of the reports tomorrow.

I appreciate the opportunity to ramble through my thoughts and questions. Then I will be better prepared when I talk back with the Dr.

Thanks again.
 
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Ramble through anything you want, most of us do.

Sometimes I will have an aura and not go into an actual seizure. I might get light headed, my lips will tingle, the room won't look right or I'll get confused about what I'm doing. This might last a minute or so but I won't go into the actual seizure itself.

As I said, trying to describe what's going on is hard to do to someone who doesn't have epilepsy because they don't understand what your body is doing. Many of us here have the same things happen to them so they understand what's going on a lot better.

Write down what she is saying that is happening as best you can understand and how often it happens and how long if she knows. Most of us keep a journal with all this information. It's easier to remember to tell your neuro things and you are usually able to answer his questions better.
 
Thanks for the info. I do have another question, would it be unusual for the aura to last a long time? As I mentioned, her first seizure happened after a period of odd behavior, her awareness was a bit off, etc. That lasted for hours (about 5, maybe a little more). Would that be a common experience?

Thanks again, have a great day.
 
I was originally being tapered off carbatrol and placed on lamictal and I discovered I was pregnant. As they slowly tapered, I started having auras also, so they had to increase my dosage of carbatrol.
 
everything in the universe happens chemically. when things happen chemically their ionic charges change between atoms. ions are an electric charge that can be measured by sensitive magnets when occurring in very small scale, as it happens in the brain.

the brain is a big chemical reaction. it's chemical reactions occur at a certain rate, which causes the ion charges to change across the brain at a certain rate. these ion/charge rates in the brain can be measured by an EEG, which is a system of very sensitive magnets that are attached to the head in different areas.

ion channels in the membranes of neurons regulate the passage or restriction of these electrical impulses through different neurons and cells

when the chemical reaction and ionic charge in the brain happens at a different rate, usually much faster, it is called a seizure. when this happens often the person is considered to have epilepsy.

when an EEG measures normal brain activity there is a standard speed of transmission. when a seizure occurs EEGs usually show a faster rate of charge through the cell membranes than they can handle causing overflow of charge on the outside of neurons, increasing the electrical potential on the outside of the cells, which means it goes somewhere else, and the only other place it goes is to different neurons (I haven't QUITE yet mastered shooting bolts of ionic electrical discharge out through my fingertips :)), and when it goes into different neurons, it does things to your brain that "you" don't do.

think of it like a kitchen sink, and the drain is your brain sucking in life experiences, and the water is the ionic impulse of your neural activity (your life experiences). you use the sink day by day at a regular rate, say, 10,000 per second, and you do this with 100,000 sinks (much fewer than you have neurons) at different but nearly the same times. suddenly your sink starts randomly shooting out water 10,000 times faster, and starts making the sinks near it do the same, with the force of a firehose. and it starts doing that randomly. once it happens more than twice, your "plumbing" has epilepsy.
epilepsy drugs try to act as "valves" that try to control the speed of the water coming out. the better your plumbing (health) is overall, the better the "valves" will work.
but so then every so often you get a flooded kitchen. at least it's water and not urine or blood all over the house - lol.

but it's easy to think of a seizure like a "lightning bolt" - I like the sink overflow concept, as that's more like what's happening, because it's flow vs. restriction, and the ability to move that flow through normal channels, lest it makes the sinks overflow into different sinks

but this happens on a cellular level, where each ion channel (there are many in each cell) is its own "kitchen sink", with sinks abutted up to each other as far as you can see. when ONE sink gets the "mega firehose", often it causes smaller seizures (absence seizures and things where consciousness is preserved) but doesn't really disrupt the on/off or cause much overflow the individual sink can't handle on its own within a few moments (absence seizures etc) or that the adjoining sinks can't handle (larger seizures).
when larger expanses of the sinks get "the firehose" at once it causes larger overflows that spread to more and more and more sinks. this type would cause larger, longer and more severe seizures (ex. tonic-clonics (the unconscious shaking type))

in this very very very simplified "kitchen sink" example, think of each sink performing a different thing. one sink makes you walk. one sink makes you pee. one sink makes you love. one sink makes you scream. one sink makes you remember a moment in high school. now have all of these sinks overflow into one another whereas usually each has its own plumbing path. that's why some crazy shit goes on with epilepsy.
different parts of the brain are associated with different aspects: memory, good feelings, bad feelings, sensory, yadda yadda yadda -
obviously this is a disrespectfully ridiculous description of the brain and its functioning, but this might give you an idea.

don't think of seizures like lightning or a "tazer".
think of a kitchen sink for every millisecond of your life, a sink that persists or dies, and the sinks keep piling up and up. each sink associates with every emotion at that millisecond (leaving a stain around the drain - lol) and every millisecond thereafter until its demise, and builds itself plumbing to associate with each area of the brain (memory, good feelings, bad feelings, sensory, yadda yadda yadda -). and then starts turning on and off on and off, 10,000/sec,...
 
what I meant to add additionally, why seizures can get so shitty and weird, I think, is the "cross contamination" between sink paths that make one thought process mix with other processes
that's why the muscles spasm (your brain says "flex your muscles AND unflex your muscles at the same time... ALL of your muscles), that's why the strange thinking (similarly to muscles, having contrasting thoughts at the same time? or having two dissimilar thoughts at the same time?) that's why the unconsciousness or altered consciousness ...
anyway, that's why it's one of the toughest diseases to experience, one of the most suicidal, and extraordinarily hard to describe the experiences ("pulled muscle" just don't cut it sorry).
 
to cut to the chase-
an "epileptic discharge" is when the "kitchen sinks" start flowing out water much more often

the action potential builds up outside of the drains whereas the action potential is rather stable otherwise, in a non-ictal neuronal ion pathway = the sink overflows
 
potential across an atom changes too, and that potential is what an ion is. an atom isn't a stationary object, but rather a little ball of more or less amounts of energy that is very stable, that's why ions move across them, and why it's so hard to "break" atoms - and why when they are broken it's such a big deal and create nuclear bombs from this energy.

so if you want to go down to an even smaller scale - atoms that make up the "kitchen sinks" are even smaller kitchen sinks that are full and stoppered.

there is no process in the body to make an atom that is larger or smaller. there are ways to do it but only in a scientific experimental process. not in the human body. ions travel across these sinks from sink to sink like small toy boats, with a limit of how many boats can be in each sink

in no way am I a doctor nor am I writing this as any sort of doctorate thesis or anything
but I think this would be considered decently adequate as explanation
 
ok one last thing about sodium channels in cell membranes transferring an electrical potential across the membrane
(equalizing an ion potential across a membrane: the number of ions building up outside of the cell membrane - is the process of the "kitchen sink" being able to "drain" the water it gets from other plumbing from the pile of sinks, or spilling over)

I once heard that basically what epilepsy drugs are are different types of salt that help "slow down" the water that is overflowing, and to unclog the "drains"

the "drains" are sodium channels. sodium is a salt. NaCl (sodium chloride) is table salt. chlorine is also very important in ion transfer inside of cells.

if an abnormal ion potential builds up in the heart (or rather, technically, ON the heart (because it is ON the cell membranes)), it is a heart attack. or fatal.
if an abnormal ion potential builds up in (ON the brain...) the brain, it is a seizure.

diet is very important!

I've also heard that's why it can be so calming being in the ocean, or pool or water, is because aside from cleaning, it helps to neutralize some of your body's built up cellular ion potential! but just on the skin... but also this is why DRINKING ENOUGH WATER is so important, because it does the same thing IN your body (and this is why urine is so salty, and why it can be ammoniated to patinate copper! (don't ask lol))
 
Thanks for the info. I do have another question, would it be unusual for the aura to last a long time? As I mentioned, her first seizure happened after a period of odd behavior, her awareness was a bit off, etc. That lasted for hours (about 5, maybe a little more). Would that be a common experience?

Thanks again, have a great day.


Before my last seizure (Tonic-Clonic), I felt off for hours - almost all day. My speech was a bit messed up, and I was feeling out of it... I honestly forgot most of the day. Up until that point my partial seizures were getting worse and worse. I wasn't on medication, but I had done some research about those off feelings, and figured it out, since I had had a full grand mal seizure a couple of years prior (no diagnosis because I had never had anything before and my EEGs were normal).

As for EEGs on medications - I have had one abnormal one while on medicine. That was about a month after I started on Keppra, which was my first medication after diagnosis. After that one seizure, my partials were pretty bad, and it's taken me awhile to even get to this point (about six partials a month), so if she is still having several a day (I was) even on medication, I wouldn't be surprised if she had an abnormal EEG.
 
Hi! Thanks so very much for the replies. Petero, the time you took to put the "sink" together is greatly appreciated. It is an excellent analogy. This should be flagged for other new folks to reference!

Running Girl, that is good to know that others have experienced a longer aura.
AshleyChristina, thanks for your reply, wishing you the best with the baby.
Valeriedl: thanks again.

I did receive the EEG report, which shows to be abnormal, with left temporal epileptiform discharges and intermittent left hemisphere slowing. It says it is consistent with focal process of cortical dysfunction in the left hemisphere. ( I have searched the web and haven't found that term yet.) Does that mean anything to any of you?
 
welcome faith,
when you received the report what did the neuro say regarding epilepsy? any reference to if she has another grand mal it could likely be diagnosed? they will also diagnose with the smaller seizures but usually like to have as much evidence as possible. like val said it's so handy to document everything.

your daughter's results sound similar to mine (from 2003); left temporal discharges and left slowing, due to focal epilepsy of the left temporal lobe. it was determined this year after a lesion was found in 2011 that i had cortical dysplasia (the neurons in an area of the brain fail to move in the proper formation in utero).

i can't remember if you said or not, how old is she?
 
Hi qtowngirl!

My daughter is 34. She was born with some health issues that lead to major surgery at 1 month old and emergency surgery at 2 months. The 2nd surgery she was in shock and had no blood pressure or respiration. She is developmentally disabled; autism, most likely due to the oxygen issues at the 2nd surgery.

The seizure 5 years ago was the first one we are aware of. It lasted a long time for seizures, her lips turned blue and was so strong that her arms and legs had bruises the next day. She was immediately put on carbatrol twice a day. Other than these weird episodes of feeling strange (she calls it dizzy), odd feelings of numbness in her head, etc. we have had no toher occurances. The trip to the ER and all the retesting was due to a prolonged episode of weird feelings that included slurred speech.

When we met with the Dr. after the tests he only said that she was having epileptic discharges and I should make sure she stayed on her medicine. That he could not be sure if these weird spells were some type of odd seizure activity, or not. The only way to be sure was to be doing the EEG when she had one. They had already told me when I went to the GP that we would likely not be able to pinpoint what had actually happened) He did say he did not see any stroke risks.

Once I got away I thought, well does that mean she has epilepsy? The report that I got this week adds to my questions. I hope to talk back to her local Dr. (neurologst was in another city) in the next few days.

This site has helped me a great deal in getting my "sea legs" on the subject.
 
i'd say at this point it's too early to make that diagnosis, and unless you were specifically told that, not to worry too much right now.
if she's only ever had one grand mal (that is more common than many realize, everyone has a seizure threshold and sometimes it can spill over and cause a seizure), and he's saying he can't be sure the spells are seizure activity, then it simply is too early to say.
writing down notes, dates, all her feelings etc. will help a great deal in her journey.
best of luck and i'm sorry you're having to go through this.
 
Just a quick follow-up. I did get back with the Doctor and was advised that her diagnosis is Epilepsy.

Thanks for everyones help and encouragement.
 
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