Where I'm at now

[MichaelMaso]

Hello CWE, (this is jumbled..)

I've come here to tell my story as it stands currently. I have recently separated from my wife of 3 years (together for 7), who has temporal lobe epilepsy and partially medicated petit-mal and grand-mal seizures. She has anywhere from 5 - 40 seizures a day (violent petit mal) and possibly a grand mal every few weeks, but can have periods of up to two months without any seizures at all.

She is dignified, proud, and courageous. Beautiful, wise and kind.

Our marriage has multiple problems, all of which are virtually impossible to separate from each other. The current understanding is such that neither of us want to make it work (or at least thats what we are saying). Personally, my mind changes regularly, and I'm not fit to make a conclusive decision. To me, the marriage is not the issue, I still want to be in relationship with her, but not in the way that it has been. I feel that I married too young and for the wrong reasons, and I need time to get my shit together.

Previous to separating, we were living at her parents house, as her care requirements were more than I could handle. I suffer from my own list of problems of reality, relating to mental health, and living with her folks was the only way to survive. This did not work for me.

During the course of our relationship, her epilepsy has got steadily worse. She is dependant practically, for cooking, showering, getting to and from places etc. The combination of emotional/relationship co-dependance, and the practical dependance, has taken its toll, and I have had a breakdown, and have had to leave the situation. I had become suicidal. My mental health issues are obviously my own, but they are inseparable from the environmental factors of the pressure of caring, and a dysfunctional relationship. Right or wrong, failure or not, I am coming to terms with the fact that I simply wasn't coping, and now the dust has settled, and I'm taking stock of the situation. Her mother has taken over the caring role.

Significant to the situation, is the grand plans and dreams we had for our life together. The aspiration far outweighed our capacity. We wanted to live out of town, have kids and grow a big garden. Her parents, having a pool of money, generously offered to help us, and we accepted. They bought 2 acres of land with a cottage, and it became ours. We started work, whilst balancing a job in the city and support for her epilepsy.
I put all I had into making the dream a reality, and I see now that I wasn't happy, but the plan was everything to her. Slowly I realised that I didn't want to keep working towards that dream, indeed, I could not. The idea of having children in the bush and dealing with epilepsy and my mental health issues, now seems absurd and nieve. She is as far as I can tell, still attached to that dream. The way I need to live, and the way she wants to, cannot be reconciled. I tried for years to do it her way, and have failed.

All through the caring process, I was very careful not to complain about her epilepsy or the difficulties and compromises of caring. Indeed I worked very hard to accept it as part of her story, and to find spiritual meaning in it. I was unwilling to accept there was anything wrong with her. I took it upon myself to be the voice of holistic interpretation of her condition, in the face of the tendency to pathologize epilepsy. Being very close to her, and being witness to her epilepsy 24/7, I came to conclusions about the emotional and psychological elements of her experience. I resented the biomedical dogma of her parents, and observed distressing side-effects of medication. Above all, I saw a direct correlation between her owning and understanding her experiences based on what they meant to HER, and an improvement in her happiness and often, the condition itself. When she explored her own experiences through scientific contemplation, she was empowered. When she accepted the label of 'disability' she was disempowered. This is plainly obvious to me, though apparently obscure to medical professionals.

I didn't realize the level to which I had compromised my lifestyle and my own health, and failed to communicate effectively to her and her family about my needs, limits and boundaries. I see that it is this same failure to communicate about boundaries that led me to over extend myself in the issues of marriage and property. It isn't fair for her, that I said I could do these things, but now have decided I cannot. I dont know if either her or her family really understand what has happened, and I dont know if they want to hear what I have to say. I suspect im not popular in their house.

A huge dilemma for me, and a massive source of guilt, is that I have 'abandoned her' to deal with her condition alone. This is torturous. However, I have decided that trusting her to be ok, despite her significant difficulties, is an act of respect. I still am unable to treat her as a sick person. I might be the only person who will not treat her as a sick person. I would prefer to be shown this same respect and trust, and so this is what I will do.

Shortly after we separated, she was approved for brain-surgery, and will be admitted to hospital in 3 weeks. Before we separated, she had decided that she didn't want to have surgery, indeed it wasn't clear it was possible. I cannot help but see a correlation between us separating and her deciding to have surgery. If it works, and the doctors are confident it will, with limited side-effects, then she would possibly be cured. Who knows if she would have made such a brave move, had we not separated. I ask myself, did we need to separate (and with no agreed intention to get back together), before she would take this step? What if something goes wrong? If it goes right, we are still broken up, and I will not be part of her recovery. I will probably not be part of her life as she rebuilds independence.

I dont know whats going to happen, but I can only hope I have done my best.
It is not enough, and I can only hope to continue being honest about what I'm capable of. I dare not hope for us to get back together, but sometimes I want that. I cant tell her that sometimes I want to be with her, because I dont know if I can be with her. I want to tell her its all going to be ok and that I can do it, that I can do whatever she wants, but evidence tells me I would likely be wrong. It hasn't been ok, and I cant do it, at least not right now.

And yet I love her.

If you read this far, thank-you for reading,
Michael

 

[JaneC]

Michael, looking after other people and all the responsibilities that come with that is tough, especially when you have your own health problems (I know something of this). What help and support are you getting yourself?

If you haven't already done so, I think you might benefit from talking through all this with a mental health professional. I was struggling a couple of years ago with the effects of on our family life of my husband having MS. I had a series of sessions with a mental health nurse. It was helpful not only from the fact that it allowed me to get everything out, she was also able to make useful suggestions for dealing with certain situations or whatever.

My daughter has epilepsy but we are fortunate enough that she is fine for the most part. However, it's been a difficult week with her and I found it really quite stressful, even in the short term. Even so, I can't imagine what life has been like for you.

I do think seeing someone might help you to sort out your feelings and where you want to go from here. In the meantime, if your wife has surgery, perhaps you'll both be in a better position to know where you stand and what you want to do about your marriage sometime soon x

 

[MichaelMaso]

JaneC,
Thank-you for your reply. I have started a process of trying to find an appropriate professional to speak to. Im yet to find someone who has been helpful.

I have good family and friend support, and have a few people who are good listeners and whom I trust.

I admit I am reluctant to put the time in to connect with a professional, as I dont really believe that anyone can understand. The act of 'releasing' pent up emotions is something that I'm familiar with, and have good opportunities to do this. Writing the original post as been a continuation of trying to articulate whats happened. No doubt if I had a therapeutic relationship with a professional, I would show them what I have written.

Finding a good therapist would be great, It will happen in time I reckon.

Most of my experience is of simply letting grief unwind itself, and rebuilding an identity that is not defined by caring for her and dealing with her condition. Some days are rougher than others, but on the whole I'm ok. I find the nature of forums useful to the process, as its anonymous and a good record of my thoughts.

I imagine that everything will be different after surgery. I can only wait and see what happens. She will have a big recovery period, and I have a lot of uncertainty about how much interest in the process, on my part, is appropriate.

Michael.

 

[Ann T.]

Greetings, Michael!
Please keep writing. I find writing to be very good therapy. Also, right now, as it stands, you're just a bit bent, but not broken. Contact her via phone, text, or e-mail. If she or her family doesn't respond, that's your signal to please stay back. Take care & best wishes, Michael.

 

[jenbayly17]

Michael,
I can tell how much you still care for your wife and though it is hard to be her caretaker and brings out more emotionally than what some are able to overcome. Right now it sounds like it is still so recent that you both haven't had much time to start a new routine for yourself that can help you to be at peace with the decision of seperating. I have been fortunate to have more control over my seizures than what your wife endures from what you have said, but a recent change in my medicine was a lot for my husband to deal with. I wasn't having seizures during the med change just a lot of side effects. about 3 years ago my husband decided to go through counseling for a rough time he was having when his daughter moved just far enough away that we were not able to see her as much through the school year (she was age 5 and just starting school). My husband slipped into a depression state that I couldn't pry open. We got through that time and with my medical craziness in 2013 I feared I would push him back into the depressive state. But talking to people here and also talking to him so we understood the things we just made it through and the possibility of what other things may come we are back on track.
My advice to you is to see what you truly feel about being with her and talk to a counselor if you are having trouble sorting out those thoughts. If you are also enduring mental health issues of your own it is not easy to be the caretaker for someone else.
If it ends up that the counseling would be something you both are up to it could help you both. But if you or your wife decide that you are not to be just know that as hard as it can be now delaying something that you both would possibly agree is not working would be even harder later. I hope that for you both you find the best way to have you both find happiness and to be healthy as well. Keep in touch. :hugs:

 

[Zolt]

Michael you said, "She is dignified, proud, and courageous. Beautiful, wise and kind." Words like that mean you still love her and you just needed some time to think things through.
In your writing you never really state what the real problem is that you have. Is it that your dream of living in a cottage and raising a family not what you want? Or is the problem her and her affliction?

If you truly love her, which i think you do, then go to her and help her through this surgery ordial. Remember your marriage statements, to love and honor through sickness and in health.

Cheers,
Zolt

 

[MichaelMaso]

Zolt,

Yep, she's all of those things, and of course I love her. You dont stop loving someone after 7 years. Of course I need time to think things through, I imagine this process will be a long one.

I think the 'real problem' is that our dreams for the future could not be reconciled, as determined by several overlapping and confusing issues, including epilepsy, fundamentally different ideas about marriage, and many years of trying to make it work.

In truth, I don't know enough about whats happened to know what the 'real problem' is.
I can speculate that everything was the real problem.

This is a 'This is whats happened, and im not trying to blame anything, anyone'.

The last conversation we had about the future, she said she didn't want to be with me.

Does she need help from me specifically through the ordeal? Am I even capable of helping her? The trust is gone, she says it hurts to see me.

I dont understand enough about my motivations to support her, I'm confused that its selfish of me to want to be involved, especially seeing that she doesn't seem to want me involved. My emotional dependance issues have been a significant cause of me failing to set boundaries.

And by the way, to hell with marriage statements, my relationship is with her, not to marriage statements. If you don't understand what I mean by this then it will be difficult for you to see where I'm coming from.

To me, it is more Loving to respect her space and what she's said, than to go all Knight in Shining Armour about it.

This is the most important part of my original post:

A huge dilemma for me, and a massive source of guilt, is that I have 'abandoned her' to deal with her condition alone. This is torturous. However, I have decided that trusting her to be ok, despite her significant difficulties, is an act of respect. I still am unable to treat her as a sick person. I might be the only person who will not treat her as a sick person. I would prefer to be shown this same respect and trust, and so this is what I will do.

I should clarify that she has lots of good support and she is not actually alone, that would be totally different.

I have told her that if she wants to call me, no matter what labels we use about the dynamic between us, then she can.

We're both doing the hard yards of disentangling emotional dependance.

Michael.

 

[Cint]

Hi Michael,

In a way I do understand what you're going thru. I am the one who suffers from epilepsy. I was married to a pilot for over 25 years. We lived 1500 miles from family, so I was on my own quite a bit. My husband didn't treat me as a "sick" person. But he didn't treat me with respect, either. After I had my brain surgery for epilepsy and have problems remembering things he was degrading because I couldn't remember. And when I went into a deep depression, he didn't understand what my problem was. So after years of more seizures and mood swings, I finally had to leave. We went thru years of therapy, too, but he blamed it all on me and I couldn't take it anymore. I'm much happier now.

I hope you both get your problems separated and under control. Be patient with yourself. It will take time.

 

[Saranoya]

Hi Michael,

First, about the part of your post quoted above: given what your wife has told you (that she doesn't want to be with you, that it hurts to see you, that the trust is gone, etc.), I do believe that trusting her to be OK without you in her life right now is the best and most respectful thing you can do. As you've written yourself, she still has lots of good support, so you're not really 'abandoning' her -- just keeping your distance.

Does this mean there is nothing to salvage here? That you will never be a part of her life again? Maybe, but not necessarily. As others have said, there is lots of love still radiating from what you've written. That's not something you can just turn off because you've decided you should. And she is getting the surgery soon. Maybe that will take care of something that has been a huge and looming issue in this marriage for both of you, even if it wasn't explicitly talked about in that way.

One thing that's troubling me here, though, is the fact that you say you are "the only one" who doesn't treat her as a sick person. To me, this suggests that her parents do, in fact, treat her first and foremost as a sick person, and also that she *wants* to be seen that way (or at least, that she doesn't know how to define herself, if it isn't as a sick person). If she's had refractory epilepsy for all or most of her life, then this is perfectly understandable, both on her part and on the part of her parents. But it definitely is not healthy, and for that reason alone, it's a shame that it's not working between the two of you right now.

Seems to me, though, now that she is getting the surgery and you have (temporarily?) moved out, that you both have an excellent opportunity to try and redefine yourselves as something other than what you've been. You may have seen yourself primarily as her caretaker for the past seven years, but that's not all you are. I don't think it's what you really want to be, either (at least not to the exclusion of other, more important things), and it never was the first thing you *should* have defined yourself by. She may have been 'the sick person' all her life, and that is in fact a big part of what she's been, but that's not all she is, and if all goes well with the surgery, it's not something she will remain going forward.

Letting go of an identity that has defined your way of life for so long (seven years in your case, and a lifetime in hers) is extremely hard. But trust me when I tell you (and I know this from personal experience): if your self-definition necessarily includes a level of dependence on anyone else, then you will never have a successful relationship. You need to be able to stand on your own two feet, in terms of who and what you see yourself as, before you can enter a serious emotional commitment to any other person. And then you *will* redefine certain parts of your established identity, in order to permanently include that other person. But if you have a strong sense of who you are, and a solid emotional foundation, then you will not lose yourself in that relationship, no matter how involved you get.

Reading between the lines, I think that is part of what happened here: you don't know what went wrong because people kept crossing your boundaries (with regards to living arrangements, physical and emotional space, plans for the future, etc.), but you didn't realise that's what they were doing until it was too late, because you didn't have a strong enough sense of your own identity.

Work on that. It will do you a world of good, whether you eventually get back together with this particular woman or not.

 

[Cint]

Letting go of an identity that has defined your way of life for so long (seven years in your case, and a lifetime in hers) is extremely hard. But trust me when I tell you (and I know this from personal experience): if your self-definition necessarily includes a level of dependence on anyone else, then you will never have a successful relationship. You need to be able to stand on your own two feet, in terms of who and what you see yourself as, before you can enter a serious emotional commitment to any other person. And then you *will* redefine certain parts of your established identity, in order to permanently include that other person. But if you have a strong sense of who you are, and a solid emotional foundation, then you will not lose yourself in that relationship, no matter how involved you get.

A level of dependence on anyone else for your self-definition is called co-dependency. I learned this thru my years of therapy and personal experience, too.

From http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/go/codependency

Who Does Co-dependency Affect?
Co-dependency often affects a spouse, a parent, sibling, friend, or co-worker of a person afflicted with alcohol or drug dependence. Originally, co-dependent was a term used to describe partners in chemical dependency, persons living with, or in a relationship with an addicted person. Similar patterns have been seen in people in relationships with chronically or mentally ill individuals. Today, however, the term has broadened to describe any co-dependent person from any dysfunctional family.

What is a Dysfunctional Family and How Does it Lead to Co-dependency?
A dysfunctional family is one in which members suffer from fear, anger, pain, or shame that is ignored or denied. Underlying problems may include any of the following:

~An addiction by a family member to drugs, alcohol, relationships, work, food, sex, or gambling.
~The existence of physical, emotional, or sexual abuse.
~The presence of a family member suffering from a chronic mental or physical illness.

Dysfunctional families do not acknowledge that problems exist. They don’t talk about them or confront them. As a result, family members learn to repress emotions and disregard their own needs. They become “survivors.” They develop behaviors that help them deny, ignore, or avoid difficult emotions. They detach themselves. They don’t talk. They don’t touch. They don’t confront. They don’t feel. They don’t trust. The identity and emotional development of the members of a dysfunctional family are often inhibited

Attention and energy focus on the family member who is ill or addicted. The co-dependent person typically sacrifices his or her needs to take care of a person who is sick. When co-dependents place other people’s health, welfare and safety before their own, they can lose contact with their own needs, desires, and sense of self.

 

[Zolt]

"And by the way, to hell with marriage statements" Wow

This tells me you don't care about your vows\commitments to her or your marriage and all you are looking for is some justification to leave her so you won't feel bad about your "abandoning her". Well guess what she survived before you came into her life and she will survive after you have left. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

"The last conversation we had about the future, she said she didn't want to be with me." Whatever you did or said to her, for her to say, the above, must of been pretty bad.

We can only go by what you tell us and it seems to me you're having a tough time letting go, when physically or verbally you have already put the ball in motion. Since it's already rolling, i would suggest you stick with it.

Zolt

 

[Saranoya]

"And by the way, to hell with marriage statements" Wow

This tells me you don't care about your vows\commitments to her or your marriage and all you are looking for is some justification to leave her so you won't feel bad about your "abandoning her". Well guess what she survived before you came into her life and she will survive after you have left. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I read the same statement by the OP quite differently. To me, it says that the question of whether they are married or not is inconsequential: he wants to do what's best for both of them regardless.

"The last conversation we had about the future, she said she didn't want to be with me." Whatever you did or said to her, for her to say, the above, must of been pretty bad.

It's entirely possible that this is true. But you don't know that. There are plenty of reasons she could have said that without there ever having been some kind of "big bad" on the part of the OP.

Sometimes, people simply realize their relationship has slowly stopped working along the way, and they didn't know it until the boiling point had come and gone. Under those circumstances, it does hurt to see the other person, since that is, first and foremost, a reminder of your own failures in trying to build a lasting marriage.

 

[Nakamova]

Best to give someone the benefit of the doubt when interpreting a post from a stranger -- You don't have access to all the pieces of information, and nuances of tone and meaning that might be clear in person are hard to interpret from a distance.

 

[MichaelMaso]

I'd just like to say thank-you to everyone who has taken the time to reply/discuss.
Discussing this stuff in this thread has been very helpful to me.

A few things:

@Cint, the info you have linked/quoted is highly resonant, and I appreciate it.

@Saranoya The puzzle is coming together...Now that I've discovered a really big unused stash of boundary chalk, I'm learning the apparently terrifying process of declaring limits...

@Zolt, Your post seems hostile... I'm not sure what kind of response you're expecting, if any. If I've offended you, It was unintentional. Maybe there has been a misunderstanding, or similar?. If you want to clear it up im open, if not, all the best.

Regards,
Michael

 

[mamasita]

Michael

We are only human…
Sometimes people grow together, sometimes people grow apart. Neither can be blamed, it just happens. There is no right, no wrong… it just is.

Of course you are still going to love her. Like you stated, you were together for seven years and the love will probably remain but be changed, neatly tucked away in a special niche in your heart. And good for you to have the humility that you do. You are not abandoning her if she has stated that she does not wish to see you. You are only honoring her right.

Do look after yourself though, do what you need to do to move on and forward. Remember; that when you look in the mirror there is only one person looking back at you….. YOU. So be kind to that person, love that person and grow as that person. In the end it will be a reflection worth looking at and others will see what is in the mirror.
karen

 

[GoldSeraph]

I'm wondering Michael....if you gave over full time care to someone else, like a paid caregiver.....would that keep your marriage together? Good luck Michael...don't beat yourself up too much. She will heal and go on to find happiness and so will you. Diane