Caffeine and seizure threshold

[Emily Barrett]

Does caffeine have a noticeable effect on the seizure threshold? I drank six Diet Cokes yesterday, and got very shaky and twitchy. My vision flickered and I had a migraine aura. I would have posted about this last night, but I couldn't use the keyboard properly. I think I might have to cut down on caffeine.

 

[arnie]

Caffeine can definitely change your seizure threshold, and can make anyone jittery. I drink several cups of coffee a day and it doesn't seem to have any effect on my seizure activity. For the first 10 or so years after I was diagnosed I didn't drink coffee or any caffeinated beverages at all. Diet Coke, or any soft drink, for that matter, diet or not, isn't good for you anyway, and six a day might be a bit much.

 

[skyfire322]

It does. I used to drink a pot of coffee every day, and was having tremors and auras constantly. I'm now down to one cup and those symptoms have gone away! As Arnie said, caffeine is a b**ch for us. It was so hard to cut back because coffee used to be my lifeblood! It never hurts to splurge on one cola once in a while, but finding an alternative would definitely be a good thing.

 

[masterjen]

Exposure to seizure triggers can also be accumulative, so if you experienced a lot of triggers in a day then you may be more likely to react to another trigger than you otherwise would be. For instance if stress, flashing light, poor eating habits and too much caffeine are your triggers and you had a horrible day at work, played video games for a couple of hours and didn't eat a well-balanced diet then the caffeine added to the mix might be more likely to trigger activity than if you only drank the caffeine and experienced none of the other triggers.

 

[RobinN]

I think you should be looking at what that Diet Coke has in it, in addition to the caffeine.

One of the easiest things you can do to improve your health is to stop drinking soda.

 

[Nakamova]

Emily,

Caffeine can definitely be one factor to consider, though most sodas tend to have much less than what might be found in comparable servings of coffee or tea.

Diet Coke also contains aspartame, which is essentially aspartic acid -- an amino acid that excites the brain. For most people, most of the time, aspartame is harmless, but if you have a low seizure threshold, you may be vulnerable and you should definitely be careful in your consumption. Aspartame is similar in that way to MSG, an analogue of glutamic acid (another excitatory neurotransmitter).

Another factor with high soda consumption are the phosphates. Found particularly in dark carbonated sodas, phosphates bind with magnesium and make it unusable by the body. Magnesium plays a huge role in brain and body health (see http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...gnesium-and-the-brain-the-original-chill-pill), so it's important to maintain healthy levels.

When I had my very first seizure (a tonic-clonic), all I had been consuming over the course of a a few days were diet sodas, and maybe a banana. Though I was also stressed and fatigued (and probably suffering from low blood sugar), I think it's likely the caffeine/aspartame/phosphate trinity played a contributing role in the seizure onset.

 

[epileric]

Diet Coke also contains aspartame, which is essentially aspartic acid -- an amino acid that excites the brain. For most people, most of the time, aspartame is harmless, but if you have a low seizure threshold, you may be vulnerable and you should definitely be careful in your consumption.

I've heard that anecdote before but never seen any scientific proof to it. Actually I've seen studies show the opposite.

The high intensity sweetener aspartame has been implicated anecdotally in seizure provocation. This possibility was investigated with a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study. After an extensive search, 18 individuals (16 adults and 2 children) who had seizures allegedly related to aspartame consumption were admitted to adult or pediatric epilepsy monitoring units where their EEG was monitored continuously for 5 days. Aspartame (50 mg/kg) or identically enpackaged placebo was administered in divided doses at 0800, 1000, and 1200 h on study days 2 and 4. All meals were uniformly standardized on treatment days. No clinical seizures or other adverse experiences were observed after aspartame ingestion. Mean plasma phenylalanine (Phe) concentrations increased significantly after aspartame ingestion (83.6 microM) as compared with placebo (52.3 microM). Results suggest that aspartame, in acute dosage of approximately 50 mg/kg, is no more likely than placebo to cause seizures in individuals who reported that their seizures were provoked by aspartame consumption.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7614911

 

[Belinda5000]

It doesn't matter that I don't drink caffeine.

I drink rootbeer and it has no caffeine along with sprite.

I'll seize regardless.

 

[C0urt]

caffiene makes me less likely to have a seizure, I am prone to severe headaches withdrawals are beastly. it is my gateway drug of choice.

 

[Cint]

caffiene makes me less likely to have a seizure, I am prone to severe headaches withdrawals are beastly. it is my gateway drug of choice.

:agree: Caffeine is what keeps me goin' cause the AEDs are what puts me to sleep.

 

[Nakamova]

Eric, I appreciate your comment and the study about the aspartame, but you're missing my point. I'm not part of the fringe that believes that aspartame is inherently dangerous -- as I said, for most people, most of the time it's harmless. But it is the case that some folks can be sensitive to its effects on the brain -- just as with like caffeine or gluten or msg -- and it can potentially play a contributing/triggering role in folks who already have a low seizure threshold. The aspartame study you cited had only 18 people, they were given aspartame while hanging out in the hospital, and they weren't folks who had epilepsy or even a known aspartame susceptibility, so I'm not sure it rules out aspartame (any more than my anecdotal comment rules it in). We all have different triggers; when I was unmedicated, aspartame seemed to be one of them.

 

[epileric]

You're right, that was a very preliminary study and it is possibly not great for people with seizures but so far from what I've read your claim of "excitatory" chemicals is only theoretical & has been shown to be untrue, or at least very unlikely.

Theoretical Concerns
In 1984, Stegink and Filer (3) edited a 670-page book on aspartame,
withonly one clinical reference to seizures (on page 419), despite nine chapters reviewing possible side-effects of aspartame. Since that time, several reports of animal studies and anecdotal clinical cases have appeared to consider a relationship between aspartame and seizures. Aspartame ingestion increases the plasma concentration of the excitatory amino acids aspartate and phenylalanine, and in very high concentrations it may also increase brain concentration of phenylalanine (see above). There is no doubt that direct application of aspartate or glutamate to neurons can produce neuronal depolarization and cellular bursting in animal model systems (39). Nevertheless, it is a mistake to presume from this observation that raising the plasma concentration of aspartate or phenylalanine would be convulsant in whole organisms. First, quantities of amino acid passing the blood-brain barrier might be insufficient to excite neurons. Second, excitation of certain inhibitor neuronal pools could raise the threshold for seizures. Third, regulatory mechanisms are endemic to the brain to "dampen" the effect of excessive excitation by amino acids, such that synaptic transmission can actually be depressed by exposure to high concentrations of aspartate or glutamate for periods of a few minutes (40). Effects of a rise in plasma phenylalanine

Aspartame has been one of the best-studied food additives ever marketed, with over 200 publications in medical literature and years of scrutiny by academic and regulatory boards. Aspartame continues to suffer from "guilt by association" with excitatory amino acids suspected of causing neurotoxicity and seizures. The key issue, which cannot be ignored is dose.
Neurotoxic and convulsant effects in animal models requires doses in excess of 1,000 mg/kg, a dose equivalent (for a 70-kg man) to the amount of aspartame in a 41112-oz diet of soft drinks. Even at this dose, aspartame is not itself convulsant in rodents, but only mildly facilitatory to other known animal convulsants, such as electroshock, pentylenetetrazol and fluorothyl.

However there are a lot of things still unknown about aspartame & epilepsy & epileptics may of to watch for other effects of aspartame however it does seem safe so far. Some questions raised in this study are:

First, there has not yet been a completed, controlled clinical trial of aspartame's influence (if any) on seizure frequency. Second,there is a question of whether chronic consumption of aspartame over many years changes brain, behavior, or seizure susceptibility.
There is, furthermore, a possibility that particular subgroups of consumers may be susceptible to a hypothetical proconvulsant effect of aspartame, for example, PKU hetero-zygotes with epilepsy. How much expense and effort should be expended to address these issues is a matter for political debate. Sufficient evidence exists presently on the basis of studies done to date to allow the practitioner to advise his or her seizure patients that present consumption of aspartame is safe

http://med.stanford.edu/nbc/articles/2%20-%20Aspartame,%20Neurotoxicity,%20and%20Seizures%20-%20A%20Review.pdf

Also, I'm very sorry Nakamova, I did not mean to imply you were part of any fringe.

 

[valeriedl]

I can drink caffeine but I have to pay attention to how much I do. I'm usually ok with sodas but it's usually coffee that gets me. I like my coffee strong and I can drink one or two cups but I don't go over that. At home I make decaf. I also love the fancy coffee drinks that are made with espresso. I asked one time if I could get it made with decaf and they said I could so I've been getting it made that way ever since.

 

[jh2]

hi,

i often can drink coke up to six times a day, so i understand your issue. i found drinking diet coke made me sick ill and twitchy most diet drinks have something in them that the regular soft drink does not. i found the diet drinks make me sick yet the full strength soft drinks dont have that much of an effect.

however i dont condone how much caffeine yourself and i drink, but i understand.

 

[Zolt]

Good lord, the first time i tried diet soda, i had to spit it out. It was horrible. At least for me.

But don't get me wrong, i remember a lot of days my routine would be to go to AM/PM and get a 32oz big gulp of regular coke. That use to be lunch.

iano: op:

 

[petero]

I'll add here the aspect of hydration. Caffeine is a big dehydrator, aspartame probably is too.
Water is important to hydrate salts which most AEDs area.
If you drink anything other than water try to drink twice as much water than the drink. Even making a soda iced helps.
I like 6oz. water bottles I keep and refill.
Ally Insurance has a tv commercial here that plays ad nauseum here, and within the commercial a lady is trying to teach her pet robot dog to drink water. Every time I hear that commercial now and hear her say "drink water" I go drink water.
Promise yourself a water-drinking thing that is constant and drink water to it (an annoying tv commercial for example, or every time you're by the fridge for example).
Everyone should drink more water anyway

Here it is omg:
http://www.marketmenot.com/ally-bank-trying-new-things-commercial/
Now you'll never get that dumb commercial out of your head either!!

 

[epileric]

I'll add here the aspect of hydration. Caffeine is a big dehydrator, aspartame probably is too.
Water is important to hydrate salts which most AEDs area.
If you drink anything other than water try to drink twice as much water than the drink.

Actually coffee does not dehydrate you though it does increase urination. If coffee really dehydrated us then we'd all have hangovers from it since dehydration causes hangovers.

Drinking caffeine-containing beverages as part of a normal lifestyle doesn't cause fluid loss in excess of the volume ingested. While caffeinated drinks may have a mild diuretic effect — meaning that they may cause the need to urinate — they don't appear to increase the risk of dehydration.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/caffeinated-drinks/faq-20057965

The whole myth started back in the 1920's.

The notion that you have to drink an extra glass of water for every cup of coffee you drink is one of the most persistent urban legends in nutrition. We’re talking Sasquatch territory here. The origin of this pseudo-myth comes from early studies — dating as far back as 1928 — suggesting that giving people a single dose of caffeine (typically as a pill) can trigger a small increase in urine output (read: they pee more). That might make it sound like caffeine does, in fact, cause dehydration, but there is more to the story.

http://life.nationalpost.com/2014/01/21/nutrition-fact-or-fallacy-does-coffee-dehydrate-you/

The myth of needing 8 glasses of water is also false though it is amazing how such myths can remain so popular & unchecked.

There's nothing wrong with liking water, but there is no scientific proof stating that you need to drink anywhere near eight glasses a day. One doctor who has made this his research focus, Dr. Heinz Valtin, searched through many electronic databases and also consulted with nutritionists and colleagues who specialize in water balance in the body. In all of his research, and in all of the research we conducted to double-check his work, no scientific evidence could be found to suggest that you need to drink eight glasses of water a day. In fact, scientific studies suggest that you already get enough liquid from what you're drinking and eating on a daily basis. We are not all walking around in a state of dehydration.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp#0ET6l0O4yrJXHVqo.99

http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp

 

[petero]

Thanks epileric.
By the way I just noticed how similar out ID photos are - hahahaha - unintentional on my part. I know you've had yours longer than I've used this one.
Both are cats in distressed grunt mode.
I'll drink to that (sips coffee).

 

[epileric]

Lol