Lying for your driver's license? Do it?

[AndrewIrish]

Also, I hate just being made to feel as if I'm some special invalid that can't be trusted to drive a vehicle. I am absolutely fine, normal and dandy physically in all ways of life 99.99% of the timre. Every great once in a while (knock on wood), I'll fall on the ground and convulse for the length of a cigarette break, and I 'jerk' during the day but not much more of an inconvenience then someone with a 'tick.' So yea, there's that part of it to and that's probably the morally selfish part of all but it's influencing my decision. I'm potentially etting an unemployment claim settled soon which will allow me funds neccessary to change jobs and hopefully this all becomes a moot point but what will probably end up happening is that I will have to just lie, drive as little as possible and pray for the best. Sometimes there simple is no black-and-white, morally clean way to do some things. You just have to give it your best effort, work with the situation you have and hope you get the best possible resolution. In any case, I have a month before my license expires(I'm turning 25), so I think I have time to make this decision. I've never renewed my license before... just knew about the 'epilepsy' question from past experience and my mother talking about it from recently when she had to renew hers. I have to steel myself to not drive when not absoluteluy vital to do so.

 

[CathyAnn31]

Hey Andrew,

I'm willing to bet there's people here on CWE who've driven a car during the time they werent supposed to, me included. I pay close attention to the cars around me. Drunk people, speeding teens on their cell phones, grandmas who can barely see, heart patients even.. The list goes on and on..

I'm not condoning your driving, just be careful. Please be safe and trust your instincts.

 

[John-Forrest]

Confession: I lie, I bet a lot of other people do. In today's society, you are completely grounded without a car. I ride a small motorcycle, ride a bicycle, walk, and take buses. I've ridden mopeds too, you have to have a license for those, too! I only use the motorcycle to get out of town, and take back roads. I know I'm taking a calculated risk, but I usually hit the brakes and pull over immediately. Also: I figure I'm just as likely to get killed walking across a street if I get a sudden one. I could even cause an accident because someone's trying to avoid hitting me. And I agree, there's lots of distracted drivers who are a danger to themselves and others.

 

[Westwind]

I figure I'm just as likely to get killed walking across a street....

*chuckles*

I rode my bike to get the mail, felt the aura start while I was at the mailboxes, and on the way back ran into my own car with my bike. (It sits in the driveway). Told my Neurologist about it and she said "The neighbors probably thought you were drunk." Probably true.

 

[AndrewIrish]

I like hearing the last few responses. I don't agree with me lying to the DMV but at least now I don't feel quite so evil about it, lol. It is a calculated risk and one I have to take because my circumstance isn't presenting me any other viable options. I can just try to get closer to my job as soon as possible so I can quit driving but in the meanwhile, I'll have to do a little white lying.

 

[Cint]

Here's what's goin' on in my state.........

From the GMA today (so sad, but true):

Colorado Woman Kills Family of 5: Were Seizures to Blame?

Jurors will begin deciding this morning whether a Colorado woman ignored the medical advice of doctors not to operate a vehicle when she plowed her SUV into a pickup truck, killing a family of five.

Prosecutors say Monica Chavez, driving more than 100 miles per hour with her two kids, apparently had a seizure when she entered an intersection, went airborne and smashed into two cars on a Thornton, Colo., street Feb. 17, 2011. Randy and Crystaldawn Stollsteimer, and their kids, Sebastian, Darrian, and Cyrus, died instantly.

Prosecutors say Chavez should not have been behind the wheel because of another seizure-like episode she had in 2006. After the 2006 episode, doctors told Chavez in the emergency room that she should not drive until cleared by a neurologist, prosecutor Tiffany Score said.

She ignored the order, according to prosecutors, but defense attorneys counter that Chavez saw her own doctor who was not convinced she'd had a seizure.

"No doctor will tell you that she should not have been driving five years after something that they never called a seizure," defense attorney Megan Downing said. "She was told she was fine and that's why she was in the car that day."

Chavez suffered another seizure at a McDonalds in August 2010, according to prosecutors. Chavez's husband, George, said the 2010 incident didn't raise a red flag because he thought she just blacked out from suffering a heat stroke, according to ABC News station KMGH-TV in Denver.

Chavez is facing five counts of negligent homicide and two counts of child abuse for putting her own children in danger. It will all come down to 10 women and two men who will decide whether she is a victim of mixed medical advice and bad judgment or a criminal who deserves prison.
"I think the fact that there is such a long timeframe in between the two seizures may really cut against the prosecution," Annemarie McAvoy of Fordham University School of Law in New York said.

The Chavez case has receiving renewed national attention after Commerce Secretary John Bryson was charged with a felony hit-and-run last weekend after he says he suffered a seizure while driving. Bryson was found blacked out after hitting two cars. No one was injured.

 

[AndrewIrish]

Yea, I've decided not to lie. I'll tell the truth next month and have to live with the consequences. I went through a lot of back and forth here but in the end, I'm just making it simple: honesty is the best policy.

I'd probably never have a grand mal driving. I just don't want to take the risk of it happening because I could imagine my foot getting stuck on the gas, mowing down innocents and/or killing myself. It's not worth it. Some of my family disagree with me givin up my license since I'm the breadwinner for me and my wife. To hell with them.

 

[momof3boys]

Andrew Im so proud of you for making this decision. Ive been praying each night that you would make the right decision. Its been years since Ive had a grand mal seizure, but since Ive had alot of simple partials and a few complex partial seizures. Even with the smaller seizures, I dont like getting behind the wheel. I wait months before I drive. With losing two very close relatives on the road, it hits home with me. What Ive been going through for almost ten years, I wouldnt dare want any other person to go through. Ive thought alot about the "what if's"... I know at times I wish I could turn back the hands of time and tell my cousins to never even step foot out that door to get on the road, but i cant. Its a shame your family is mad at you for making this decision. How someone could risk driving and chance someone being killed, is beyond me. I would be very greatful if I were your family for the decision you are making.

 

[Cint]

honesty is the best policy.

:agree:

I'd probably never have a grand mal driving.

NEVER say never!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[triller]

It's sad to read about kids getting killed however it happens.the women in Colorado had what mighth of been a seizure in2006,and in 2010. In most states you can drive in less then a year after your last seizure.The 100mph might have had a big part in this case. Still sad to see kids killed by others.

 

[CQ:)]

Yea, I've decided not to lie. I'll tell the truth next month and have to live with the consequences. I went through a lot of back and forth here but in the end, I'm just making it simple: honesty is the best policy.

I'd probably never have a grand mal driving. I just don't want to take the risk of it happening because I could imagine my foot getting stuck on the gas, mowing down innocents and/or killing myself. It's not worth it. Some of my family disagree with me givin up my license since I'm the breadwinner for me and my wife. To hell with them.

Andrew,

I'm glad you decided not to lie about your seizures. I have never had a licence so can't imagine how hard it is for someone to have to hand in their licence.

Even though you may never had a grandmal while driving it is safer not to risk it.

 

[dennis100]

Driving an automobile while your seizures aren't controlled is not only idiotic it's criminal. Think about it for a minute. If you are involved in an accident and happen to maim or kill someone the Judge and Jury will have no mercy on you regardless if a seizure caused the accident or not. You were driving illegally. So off to jail you go.

 

[tinathesingergirl]

Andrew, I am glad that you decided to tell the truth everything will turn out allright. God will make everything clear in the end. Your health and the safety of others is what matters in this situation. The transportation situatuation will get worked out, the scheduling will get worked out. Praying for you here in Florida Andrew.

Tina

 

[Aneka]

I know exactly how you feel, trust me, I'm in the same position.... even worse, I was the only one in my (immediate) family that could even drive (also I was the only one to have a car) so I am up sh*t creek. Thank goodness for my boyfriend, BUT he travels a lot... when he leaves I am so tempted to drive but I think of others on the road & that stops me. Reason being because I had a petit mal while driving before, when I came to, I was in the lane of oncoming traffic... I will never forget that experience!

 

[Chaz1]

Andrew.....

Acceptance / acknowledgment though MEGA difficult (like to highest order) is living in the real world and considering others means you have true compassion a trait we all RESPECT. Big Time..

You rock!

 

[qtowngirl]

I'd probably never have a grand mal driving.

I'm sorry but that's one of the most ignorant comments I've heard. There's no such thing in Epilepsy as invincibility. None.
So okay, you decided in the end not to do it but it's the attitude behind it that's worrisome. If you want to have any sort of fighting chance with your disease you'll have to start educating yourself.
How do you know you wouldn't have one while driving? I went five years without a grand mal then one day woke up in the ditch. Witness said I fell over in my seat and my car instantly went into the oncoming lane (lucky doesn't even cut it that no one was there). By the time I came to my car was surrounded by police and firemen and a first-aider putting a blanket on me b/c my body temp had fallen so low. One of the scariest days in my life.
None of us are immune Andrew. Please stop thinking that you are, it's unfair to all out there, especially you.

 

[AndrewIrish]

I want to clarify something because I think a few people are viewing me in the incorrect light here.

I've been really stuck in a bad situation. No bus line, no ability to move immediately closer to my job - an absolute need to have a license. By telling the truth here, I'm imposing consequences not only just on myself but my wife and family as well. I'm not the only person to think about and I'm NOT the only person I'm thinking about. By turning in my license, I'll force my wife to get up several hours earlier everyday and spend that time ferrying me to work which is about 80 miles away from her own job, since we worked in different directions and both a fair distance from where we live. So this is going to cause me to go very early into work, leave much later, and cause her an absolutely nightmarish headache in the morning and eat into her quality of life as well as my own.

So when I made a statement, 'I'd probably never have a Grand Mal', it was not made out of some delusion or sense of invincibility. I've struggled with Epilepsy for about five years now and in that time frame have logged nearly 200,000 miles on my automobiles. (I routinely have driven 2+ hours to work each day in this time span.) So while ultimately for the time being I'm deciding to not lie to the government, it's not so much as in me deciding for myself I'm unfit to drive - it's more motivated by the pragmatic sensibility behind the line of questioning from the DMV - ala, if I've had a seizure recently, I need to know they're relatively under control before I'm on the road again.

I'm driving as little as I can right now and soon won't drive for probably a minimum of six months. A lot of the arguments people are making in this debacle I've found for myself are predicated on a belief that I'm sensing that, 'People with Epilepsy should never drive again' - maybe that shouldn't, that's a whole 'nother can of worms. I just feel as if some are seeing me as this bad guy who doesn't place value on other's lives and that's entirely not the case. I've just been wrangling over a decision that will impact me in much greater ways then some here might believe because they have the luxury/situation that allows them to get by without the need to operate a motor vehicle. Not everyone is fortunate to live in a place that can let you get by with a walk to whatever you need or an ample line of family and friends willing to cater to life's essential needs.

I'm sorry if I'm being a bit too frank and over-stepping boundaries here, I just felt the need to let people know this isn't an easy decision for me by any means but although I agree with the reasoning many have provided for me to not drive, I feel some people's arguments also in that favor, are a but impractical and out of touch with reality to a degree and the falsehoods and misconceptions those reasons are built upon don't cast me in a very good light and I wanted to make that known. I very gratefully thank everyone whose helped give insight into this decision for me but the entire basis of the dilemma is based on a pragmatic view of the world, one that doesn't have the luxury of human compassion because we live in an incompassionate universe unfortunately that forces us into actions we don't necessarily always agree with but undertake regardless because we have no viable alternatives afforded to us. This was a circumstance where I was wondering if I would have to forsake my moral compass - it's not but such circumstances and 'hard decisions' do happen, luckily this not being one of them. I determined that this is ultimately a crisis of comfort. And if it were just impacting me, it would have been an easy decision all along but because I'd be effecting my wife's quality of living as well is where it got dodgy for me - which I think some people overlooked or simply didn't know was the case.

So yea, I know the heart is where the answers usually lie but we can't always paint things in such a black and white, good-and-bad and immature hue - we live in an abundantly colorful world where the right answer isn't always easy to find but I'm thankful I had this forum to help me locate where my journey is to take me and the path I need to follow to get there.

I also realize on face-value, the initial question and topic title of this thread is very obvious and telling. That being said, it was a legitimate concern and question I'd been struggling with - my point being, although that knee-jerk, gut-instinct response is, 'Hell No, you shouldn't lie and Hell No, you shouldn't drive', in my particular case it was more complex and intricate then the question itself would indicate. As is usuallyt the case with these worrisome, darker-motivated lines of thought. It's kind of like, 'If you found $100 in a supermarket and you had kids going hungry back at home, do you turn the money in?' The candy-dime store response is, 'Honesty is always correct and... blah, blah...' but truth is, I'll take whatever turn of luck I can ever find if it's for the better good of myself or mine. So my entire situation was framed within that same sort of moral quandary.

Thank you for my little soapbox... I'll hand it back now.

 

[momof3boys]

I know its going to be hard on your family with having to have your wife work more hours, or do all the working. But If I were your wife, Id rather be the one to put up with headaches and getting up early in the mornings, knowing my husband is not getting behind the wheel, risking his own life, or any other person's life by having a seizure and injuring or killing someone. Life is not a piece of cake. I know that. My husband is working full time, Im home with the kids during the summer, when it comes time to school, this august will be the first time all three kids are in school full time. Id love to have a job too, just to bring in more income. I stress so much about our bills, and have to stretch things to the max just to bring food to the table. I know exacly where you are coming from. My husband says its hard, I know it is, and I feel terriable for it. But at the same time, I feel so much better knowing Im not getting behind that wheel risking my own life, or others. I was thinking alot about this over the past week now and had a terriable dream about myself driving, and having a seizure and dieing. I dreamed I died and walked back into our home to find my kids crying, my husband in tears and knowing I was gone. All because I chose to drive and had a seizure. I woke up in tears that next morning. I had the worst stomach ache all day long and kept thinking about it all day.

Just knowing you will be safe and not behind the wheel is what matters most. Your family needs you in their life. Let your neurologist know about the changes with the seizures, and see if a medication change could work. It took me multiple tries before I found a good combo of meds to control my seizures.

 

[jgeekie]

I figure, I pretty much just have to lie. This year, I've been having a TC every month... so I need to drive to work, I work 45 minutes away, no public transit near me... I've got no options and my license is up for renewal in a month. They ask if you have epilepsy or have had seizures under oath.

I figure I'll just lie because it's not like they can possibly do a background check to see if you've been admitted for a seizure for every person in OH - my quesiton is this? Is there any reason I should consider telling the truth and letting them yank my license?

Lets look at it this way;

You're averaging 12 tonic-clonics a year, and you are going to be on the road for 1.5 hours per day. Assuming 8 hours of sleep that means that you're spending just under 10% of your day behind the wheel (assuming that all you ever do is drive to work). On a given day, you're looking at roughly a 1/30 chance of a seizure, and 1/10 of that will be behind the wheel. If you drive to work only, then you are going to have a 1/300 (very roughly) chance of a seizure each time you drive to work. Assuming working 240 days a year, you're looking at roughly an 80% chance over a calendar year of having a seizure behind the wheel.

Of course, weigh that against feeding your family and the decision becomes much more complex. Perhaps seek an alternative that would not require driving to work? Easy for me to say from far away. I don't have any real answers.


Jay

 

[janinestarr]

Lying about epilepsy or seizures for a license is extremely dangerous and risky. A study done by John Hopkins University in 2000 studying driving and epilepsy. "nearly all-94%- wrecked their car, 32% injuring themselves, and 20% hurt someone else. If someone you hit dies due to your driving you would most likely be charged with vehicular manslaughter, a felony charge." it's better to be safe than sorry.