From the associtation of MPD and temporalimbic Epilepsy

[Cinnabar]

From the Association of MPD and Temporalimbic Epilepsy

Dissociative Identity Disorder and Temporal Lobe Involvement

"In theory, a patient is able to induce dissociative states seemingly at will, presumably by increased volitional inputs involving neurons in other cortical areas - the temporal lobe has heightened sensitivity to electrical stimulation from other neurons and when emerging from a dissociative state one can appear confused and disoriented.

One possible interpretation of this observation would be that the dissociative condition was in fact a form of temporal lobe epilepsy.

Perhaps a better avenue for contstruct validation is the study of "interpersonality amnesia"
________________________________________________________________

While I haven't yet explored Interpersonality "amnesia" it seemed to me that the idea of it might be close enough to the phenomenon of "self-hypnosis". I wondered if it would be a point of contact between the two disorders. I found the following:

"Self-hypnosis can be associated with temporal lobe epilepsy changes in Epilepsy"

"Self-hypnosis, as it pertains to DID: Children may learn to self-hypnotize in order to escape their threatening world."

So, self-hypnosis might greatly figure in the workings of both disorders. The quest, now, is to discover if interpersonality amnesia "is" in someway akin to self-hypnosis.


About electricity:

Quoting, again: "TLE has hightened sensitivity to electrical stimulation from other neurons."

I read, "Persons having DID are charged with electricity.

Elaboration is needed and I've yet to do the research but thought it suitable enough to present here to show the "twin" theory.

Regarding electricity: A personal note which might summon up questions and/or be a cause for feedback: I see a psychoanalyist who specializes in treating patients with DID. She, like many therpists in her field, use EMDR Therapy: "Eye Movement Desensitization Reproccessing." This mode of therapy was developed to resolve symtoms resulting from unresolved life experiences. Your eyes are to follow the therapist's finger moving left to right for a length of time. It is hoped that the patients can "see" past traumas in a detached state.

My experience was not the result hoped for. During EMDR treatment, I had no "viewings" but felt a powerful surge of electricity begining at the base of my spine, quickly shooting up it, to my neck, shoulders then down my arms and out of fingers. I've never experienced electric shock but this was how it must have felt, I determined.

This "charge" was so powerful that my body lifted off the couch five consecutive times. While I was screaming "What is happening to me!", the answer I received was "The body never forgets"... forgets the trauma. Even then, before my TLE diagnosis, her answer did not sit well with me. It was more than an aberaction to to early trauma. I was sure.

I believe it was a neurological reaction to the EMDR therapy. I looked into it further and came upon "energy psychology" based in Chinese Medicine. The belief is that Chi electricity travels through the meridians or rivers of acupuncture points in the body. This made sense to me as points in my body seemed to be targeted.

Again, EMDR therapy involves moving the eyes left to right in rapid sucession...

I suspect that this activity caused electrical stimulation from the neurons. That this kind exposure to the "flashing like" movements of hand, which I had to keenly follow, procuced a seizure on that couch. I think it's plausable if not probable.
I would be interested if anyone has a take on this.

All an anomaly. I can "stand back" from these matters which directly concern me, remain fascinated and hungry for more informatoin. I think many of us can and must. I've only posted in this Forum once before. I had less information and fewer questions. Now, seeing a neuro-psychiatrist, I'm learning so much more about myself, though he still scratches his head.

Doc recommened a read: Godel, Escher, Bach: The Golden Eternal Braid He said common themes are discussed in their work and lives. (I might have problems when getting to Godel. Math is not my thing). He said it was basically about how cognition emerges from hidden a neurological mechanism. He assured me it's not entirely dry/clinical. Some fun in there. Thought I'd pass it on...

 

[drarvindr]

so what you're saying is the emdr is kind of inducing a seizure like a photosensitive one only without the need for strobe lights?
has this kind of electrical surge thing ever happened without emdr? has it happened in a hot shower or on sudden exposure to cold? it could be a sign of a more ominous diagnosis. if not , then it's worth looking into.

 

[Cinnabar]

Yes. Following the back and forth movement of hand, this electrical surge occured and I made the "flashing light" - "stobe light" analogy.

Yes. This has happened before my EMDR experience. Upon waking one morning, my entire body was paralized. Mind over matter, I limbered up slightly, one foot touched the carpet and electricity bursted from my toe to head, speedily. Then, packed with energy Bi-Polar activity was evidenced, as I saw it, being all too familiar with the feelings. This "high" allowed me to accompish a multitude of tasks within a half hour's time.

However, my psychoananalyst attributed this to DID activity, Personai laying dormant (the paralizing) then all "out" furiously fighting for control. Hence, the energy. I doubted this conclusion.

To your other point: I have never experienced this kind of electricity when taking a hot shower or sudden exposure to cold.

Something I learned since posting above:

"EMDR is not contraindicated for seizure patients but caution should be excercised."

"After an EMDR session clinical seizures in form of absense seizures occured."

I'll explore this further and aquaint myself with absense seizures.

I'll be seeing my neurologist next month so I have plenty of time to further research.

Thank you, Arvind, for your questions and input.

 

[Bernard]

"In theory, a patient is able to induce dissociative states seemingly at will, ..."

Well, some people are able to induce seizures at will too. With training in neurobehavioral techniques, some people are able to short-circuit seizures by breaking the thought-patterns that lead to them (layman's explanation - not technical/precise).

People can alter brain states with meditation too.

"Self-hypnosis, as it pertains to DID: Children may learn to self-hypnotize in order to escape their threatening world."

I believe the same is thought to occur in some cases of PNES as well.

... the answer I received was "The body never forgets"... forgets the trauma.

http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f22/emotional-trauma-stored-body-520/

... Even then, before my TLE diagnosis, her answer did not sit well with me. It was more than an aberaction to to early trauma. I was sure.

Possibly. From the page referenced above:

In response to threat and injury, animals, including humans, execute biologically based, non-conscious action patterns that prepare them to meet the threat and defend themselves. The very structure of trauma, including activation, dissociation, and freezing are based on the evolution of reptilian, mammalian and primate predator/prey survival behaviors. When threatened or injured, organisms draw from a ''library'' of possible motoric responses supported by adjustments in the autonomic and visceral nervous systems. In response to threat and injury we orient, dodge, duck, stiffen, brace, retract, fight, flee, freeze, collapse, etc. All of these coordinated responses are somatically based-they are things that the body does to protect and defend itself. It is when these orienting and defending responses are overwhelmed that we see trauma.

The bodies of traumatized people portray ''snapshots'' of their unsuccessful attempts to defend themselves in the face of threat and injury. It is because they have been overwhelmed that the execution of their normally continuous responses to threat have become truncated. Trauma is fundamentally a highly activated incomplete biological response to threat, frozen in time. For example, when our full neuromuscular and metabolic machinery prepares us to fight or to flee, muscles throughout the entire body are tensed in specific patterns of high energy readiness. When we are unable to complete the appropriate actions and discharge the tremendous energy generated by our survival preparations, this energy becomes fixated into specific patterns of neuromuscular readiness. Afferent feedback to the brain stem generated from these incomplete neuromuscular/ autonomic responses maintains a state of acute and then chronic arousal and dysfunction in the central nervous system. Traumatized people are not suffering from a disease in the normal sense of the word. They have become fixated in an aroused state. It is difficult (if not impossible) to function normally under these circumstances.

Residual incomplete responses (the ''snapshots'' of unsuccessful attempts at defense) are the basis of (implicit) traumatic memory. Just as Mickey was unable to remember the source of his trivia information, trauma is not ''remembered'' in an explicit, conscious form. It is coded as implicit procedures based on biological survival reactions. These incomplete procedures seek completion and integration, not (explicit) remembering. The compulsion that so many trauma survivors have to ''remember'' is often a misinterpretation of the profound urge to complete the highly charged survival responses that were aborted or truncated at the time they were overwhelmed. This is a significant factor in the genesis of spurious memory.

If I'm interpreting it right, it's possible that triggering the biological memory of trauma could induce strong reactions. I'm no expert on this subject though, and am just speculating.

 

[Cinnabar]

With thanks: Reply to Bernard's Post

I've never heard of people being able to induce seizures at will. I cant imagine that it would be for any other reason than to gain attention. Intent is minor to the topic. That belongs to psychology not neurology. I wonder what internal process these people go through in order to achieve such a state? This is very interesteing.

About inducing dissociative states. I can manage this topic here but pardon the lack of technical nomenclature... as I lead you into personal examples.

Inducing "one" dissociative state "into another": My experience. It was not as simple as inducing an "initial" dissociative state as one person might initially induce a seizure.

In my case, my one time instance: I was able (needed) to "switch", a kind of "inducing", from one, already existing dissociative state (persona) to the extreem opposite dissociative state in order to meet an outside demand which required a very particular type confidence/skill so that the task be completed, experty. The exisiting persona lacked this capability. As I wanted very much to have this task managed well and to it's completion, "I" , somewhere in the middle, seemingly, "intervened", calling upon the more capable persona to manage the situation. To do their "appointed job" so to speak. (People with DID "tightly compartmentalize" unlike most people) The process of "My" intervening, calling out the pesona who was the "polar opposite" of the existing weaker one, caused what seemed to have been an overloading of electrical impulses/currents in my brain lending a headache, so fierce, it caused me to fall to the ground. (Run of the mill headaches often occur with "unconscious switching").

That I "consioulsy" called out a diametrically opposed persona, one at the opposite end of the spectrum, must have required much more energy from the brain that it was accustomed to...the hay wiring, causing this extreeme headache. The stronger personas emerged quickly, thereafter, and performed the required task to completion. This stronger of the two personas retreated back into what I choose to call "System", a very organized inner sanctum with a very sound hierarchy. The "Presenting I" was then , co-conscious of the event. As if watching two characters on a screen trading hats.


Apart from this example, which is a little more complex and "was" a one time experience, persons with DID, if not co-conscious, cannot induce an altered state. They are "triggered" just as those with Epiliepsy are. The "presenting I" has no knowledge of what is taking place and this often accounts for time loss. Very similar to what happens when one is having a Tonic Clonic Seizure, let's say.

An aside: However, there is a persona who has all knowledge of what takes place. This persona is known as an "ISH" - "Inner Self Helper" This persona is highly evolved, objective, void of emotion and able to "see" the whole picture. This persona will frequent one's conciouse very rarely, if at all. Twice, I've had the encounter and each time it was an ephiphany of sorts. Two msgs delivered when the entire "System" as a risk. It seems unfair that this "all knowing part" remains so aloof most always all of the time.


Bernard, your quote finding: "Traumatized people are not suffering from a disease but are fixated in an aroused state"

The DID "Condition" is born of adaptive need. It is not a disease. It should not even be considered a "Psycholigical" Disorder as much of it has to do with physiology. Note: There are no medications to treat DID. It is the one "psychiatric disorder" (I'm being glib) where you'll not find a medication for treatment in the PDR.

This time, not about self-hypnosis but about hypnosis in the context of the doctor patient relationship.

Some doctors (and they're usually the ethical ones) find it futile to hypnotize a DID patient because they are already living, performing in a somewhat of a "hypnotized state" akin to what your apt article referred to as being in a "fixated aroused state". Unfortuanalty, there are doctors who manipulate this "fixasted aroused state" (what is whole at the moment) through hypnosis to the disadvantage of the patient.

DID is born to a person needing to be highly adaptable to their surroundings in an overly vigilant way.

Your article, I quote: "biologically based non-conscious action patterns to prepare them to meet threat and defend themselves".

One may ask the question and rightly so: "Plenty of children have met overwhelming threat early on in childhood. What is the big difference? Why don't they have DID?"

It's innate and on two levels:

1) Heriditary - a gene is passed on giving the newborn the propensity to self-hypnotize. A major playing chip in the DID scheme.

2) The child is born with a brilliant apptitude for creativity.

Back to my title from the assoiciation of MPD and Temporalimbic Epilepsy I've addressed just an iota of the workings of MPD/DID. Now, we usher in Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, with which I'm just becoming acquainted. How is it possible that these two, very complex disorders, be married? How and why are the two intrinsically tied? I would be nearly, equally curious, exploring the double/enigma for some answers, even if not for having these two conditions myself.

I advocate that Epiliespy be de-stimgatized. I advocate to any intellengent panel that Dissociative Identity Disorder be de-stigmatized. The latter is a very difficult and lonely fight as there are fewer of us around and therefore less to educate. We are not what the media propagates.

Thank you, Bernard, for supplying me with invaluable informatation with which without I'd not be prompted, able to share, making my points, standing up for the "unthinkable".

 

[Cint]

I've never heard of people being able to induce seizures at will. I cant imagine that it would be for any other reason than to gain attention. Intent is minor to the topic. That belongs to psychology not neurology as I see it. I wonder what internal process these people go through in order to achieve such a state? This is very interesteing.


Thank you, Bernard, for supplying me with invaluable informatation with which without I'd not be able share, making my points and standing up for the "unthinkable".

The neurologist I used to see once was treating a patient who she suspected was inducing seizures only for attention, or Munchausen by Proxy. At that facility, was also a neuropsychiatrist and nueropsychologist. I assume the patient was also seeing one/both of these docs.

Cindy

 

[Cinnabar]

I hope the patient covered all bases. What Bernard had to say about "inducing seizures" does fascinate me. What exactly does one go through in order to re-wire their brain? I'll quote what's in Bernard's post "People can alter brain states with meditation". I imagine this person had some meditation session!

 

[Ruth]

Cinnabar, you were talking about Dissociative Identity Disorder. From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary it says that it is: Multiple Personality Disorders. You also quoted the term "interpersonality amnesia." That impilies to me that the person does not know it is happening. According to the dictionary, "dissociation is the: "the separation of discrete mental processes." I looked up discrete: "constituting a separate entity, individually distinct < several discrete sections >."

I do not see how this can be the same as temporal lobe involvement or temporal lobe epilepsy.

I do have a son who has epilepsy and schizoprenia. His twin brother has DID and had epilepsy. He does not have epilepsy anymore. Maybe their seizures are self-induced. I hope I am getting your meaning right, here. If not, let me know. When I talk to my son who has DID, it is what personality he is in as to how I talk to him.

Epilepsy, schizophrenia and DID should definetely be de-stigmatized. I hope I was not being to harsh to you in my statement. I certainly did not mean to be. This article helps me to understand my twin sons better. Possibly me, as well.

 

[Cinnabar]

Thanks, feast, for taking the time to read through my thread and share your own experience with DID.

DID/MPD are the same. DID is a euphamism for MPD and I'm glad for it. I better stands for the condition and doesn't sound so scary! People immediately go to "Sybil" in there minds when they hear MPD. It's not that pat. DID runs on a continuim scale. For example, Sybil is at the far end of the scale, the condition more severe. I am at the mid to lower end of the scale. I have a less severe case. Neverthess, it makes for a difficult life.

"Inter-personality amnesia". I quoted this from the article. I imagine it has to do with the following example:

Persons with DID "loose time" e.g. When a persona (I don't care for the term "alter") emerges the "I" is unaware of the persona's activity. Eventually, when the persona retreats into what I call "System" (each person with DID names their own "habitat") the "I", might find themself in a different room or in a "more severe case", another city.

About TLE involvement. No one has come up with a conclusive answer. But there is research being done linking the two together along with Bi-Polar Disorder.

Since, I've been diagnosed in this order... Bi-Polar Disorder, DID, and now Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, I'm on a quest to gather as much information as I can about the correlations. You can imagine my frustration. My doctors, literally, scratch their heads when it comes to prescribing me medications. Both my neurologist and neuro-psychiatrist fortunately work very closely together.

I never knew you had this great challenge of raising two sons with such profoundly misunderstood disorders. You deserve loud applause. Schizophrenia and DID. You have much on your plate. I'm not all that deeply familiar with Schizophrenia. I do know it takes great perception and patience to raise a son with DID, closely interacting with his different personas.

I'm so glad you read this thread, asked your questions and shared your personal experience. DID is rare but not as rare as most people think.

The replys I've received to this thread have meant much to me. Your sharing, helps me to de-mystify the stigma. You are advocating right along with me and I thank you.

 

[Ruth]

Hi Cinnabar, Schizophrenia is the mid to low end of the scale. Usually medicine keeps it under control.

I have thought about your qualities: you are open about what you have, you are a loving caring person and you are very creative as a poet. You are kind to everyone. All of these qualities are consistent. They are not a part of your inter-personality amnesia. These are conscious part of your personality. They will not change.

I analyized myself on the inter-personality amnesia. Did I cause my second STATUS EPIILEPTICUS seizures unknowingly. Can I change the quality of my seizures?

I do not do things that I want to do sometimes. For instance, I need more clothes that fit better. I was in the store where I could have bought some clothes. I did not. Was that a part of my inter-personality persona. There are times when I repeat myself constantly without remembering it. I also get lost, I can be a block away from my house and get lost. Other times my son gently reminds me it is time to get ready to go somewhere I want to. I forget about it and do not go. Is this inter-personality amnesia? It might be that I have schizophrenia. It is on the low scale of DID/MPD.

I have been diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy as well. Our brains are very complicated. It is hard for doctors to come up with completley accurate diagnoses. I am not saying that the doctor's have misdiagnosed you. You are on the low scale, in my opinion. I am not a doctor.

That is why we have the Mental Illness and Epilepsy and the Padded room to go to. We need it to openly express ourselves, like we do here. I am glad you brought up the subject. It is really helpful to me. I thank you.

 

[Ruth]

Hi Cinnabar, Schizophrenia is the mid to low end of the scale. Usually medicine keeps it under control.

I have thought about your qualities: you are open about what you have, you are a loving caring person and you are very creative as a poet. You are kind to everyone. All of these qualities are consistent. They are not a part of your inter-personality amnesia. These are conscious part of your personality. They will not change.

I analyized myself on the inter-personality amnesia. Did I cause my second STATUS EPIILEPTICUS seizures unknowingly. Can I change the quality of my seizures?

I do not do things that I want to do sometimes. For instance, I need more clothes that fit better. I was in the store where I could have bought some clothes. I did not. Was that a part of my inter-personality persona. There are times when I repeat myself constantly without remembering it. I also get lost, I can be a block away from my house and get lost. Other times my son gently reminds me it is time to get ready to go somewhere I want to. I forget about it and do not go. Is this inter-personality amnesia? It might be that I have schizophrenia. It is on the low scale of DID/MPD.

I have been diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy as well. Our brains are very complicated. It is hard for doctors to come up with completley accurate diagnoses. I am not saying that the doctor's have misdiagnosed you. You are on the low scale, in my opinion. I am not a doctor.

That is why we have the Mental Illness and Epilepsy and the Padded room to go to. We need it to openly express ourselves, like we do here. I am glad you brought up the subject. It is really helpful to me. I thank you.

drarvindr mentioned EMDR. I looked it up and it is Eye-Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. A new development in the treatment of anxiety and trauma: "eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR)

This article presenta a new devopment on the field of psychotherapy: Eye-Movement Desensitization and Reprocessin (EMDR). This recently developed procedure promises rapid and effecxtive treatme of anxiety related complaints, including post-traumatic stress disorders. In essence the therapist induces a series of rapid and rhythmic eye-movements. EMDR facilitates cogtnitive changes and lasting decrease of anxiety. As indicated by research and illustrated by case histories, EMDR can be effective in one session. There is no definitive explanation for the effectiveness of this method.

 

[Ruth]

drarvindr mentioned EMDR. I looked it up and it is Eye-Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. A new development in the treatment of anxiety and trauma: "eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR)

This article presenta a new devopment on the field of psychotherapy: Eye-Movement Desensitization and Reprocessin (EMDR). This recently developed procedure promises rapid and effecxtive treatme of anxiety related complaints, including post-traumatic stress disorders. In essence the therapist induces a series of rapid and rhythmic eye-movements. EMDR facilitates cogtnitive changes and lasting decrease of anxiety. As indicated by research and illustrated by case histories, EMDR can be effective in one session. There is no definitive explanation for the effectiveness of this method.

This does not mean that you need it. I was just explaining what drarvindr meant.

 

[Cinnabar]

feast,

Thank you so much for your compliment. I like to believe most people view me as being a nice person.

About changing your mind and so forth. It can be interesting to speculate about one's self. Do I have this? Or that? Yes. I have questions. Though, in general, I think "the doctor knows best" is a good saying when it comes your questioning. Nothing like face to face interaction with doc. I imagine taking tests on the internet can drive one a little crazy!

You hit the nail on the head describing EMDR Therapy. A very simple theraputic tool to ease very difficult and varied issues.

Thanks, feast.

 

[Dutch mom]

Hello Feast and Cinnabar,

My little brother (age 30) has classical schizophrenia, and yes, we did recognize several very different personalties in him over the years. Between age 17 - 24 he has had a psychosis several times and has been admitted for treatment, which was real hard on him. He's on meds ever since and has several side effects, he isn't able to hold a job or have a healthy social life, depents a lot on his parents. Me and especially my husband do have a good relationship with him. And we do worry a lot about him. He's a good guy, very easy to take advantage off. But there's a very nasty, frightning guy around too now and then.

 

[Ruth]

Hi Dutch Mom

I am glad that you have a good relationship with him. That is important. My son was never able to hold a job or have a social life either. When he was younger, he had a social life. He quit taking his medicines because of the side effects. That only caused him more and more problems. One of his personalities told him that he did not need medicines. So we had two problems causing his medicines. He learned how to show he was taking his medicine when he was not. He learned how to fake it.

My son has a good personality as well. He calls us and we call him. It is hard to visit him because it is a 6 hour drive one-way.

 

[Cinnabar]

Hi Dutch mom,

I've not read up much on schizophrenia except for one big fat book when I was about 19.
I was interested because my mother had Paranoid Schizophrenia. She died when I was six. I have memories equally good and bad. As you said it was like dealing with two personalities. May she be at peace, finally.

I had a girlfriend who's son had the condition. He was paranoid about things being contaminated. Like many schizophrenics he was a chain smoker. When he would go cold turkey, Joeanne knew there was trouble ahead. For him, suddenly, cigarretes were contaminated (well, they certainly are!) Water and foods were contaminated. He subsisted on nothing. At these times he would have to be hospitalized.

It's a great thing that you can relate to your little brother. You must have something he picks up on. You and your husband must have something special going on. I've been around schizophrenics. I'm like a magnet for them. Think it's because I'm able to get them laughing about the simplest things. It's also possible that they pick up that I have DID. Hidden personalities, no matter the label, connect on some level.

Thank you so much, Dutch mom, for sharing your personal experience. I wish more would share and unburden themselves...

 

[Bernard]

Sorry for bumping this old thread. I was searching for something else and ran across it again and realized I never responded to Laurie's question:

... What Bernard had to say about "inducing seizures" does fascinate me. What exactly does one go through in order to re-wire their brain?

Whatever technique is used (Neurobehavioral Therapy, EEG neurofeedback, etc.), it basically involves some form of dedicated training exercise(s).