Meds suck

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KimHen5

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We're being moved to our 4th med in 6 months & will find out Monday at the Neuro what it is. I've been researching & trying to predict which they will choose & I'm just starting to feel a little overwhelmed & frankly pissed off. At who or what I don't know.

I really really wanted Lamictal to work because I've heard so many great things about it. But Ellie developed the rash & it was a doozy. It was everywhere & awful. 3 days on prednisone is finally making a dent but she still itches like crazy.

I don't have a question. I don't feel compelled to complain because I know so many have it much worse. I think I just want to tell everyone on here who has epilepsy that I don't know how you do it. These god damned meds & their stupid side effects bring me down & I'm not even the one taking them. I'm so tired of reading the side effects of a new potential drug & deep down knowing she's going to have just about every single one of them, because that's how it's been. So what's worse? Seizures, tiredness, nausea, horrid temper tantrums or just being so spaced out she looks like she's on ludes.

I think I'm having a minor, hopefully temporary, pity party. I'd invite you all but I really hope you have better things to do : )
 
it can be hard to cope with sometimes. i am also about to try a different medication after having no luck with my current one. some of the side affects do sound horrible but i would rather have them than to continue having seizures. i hope you do find something that that wont give her any more horrible side affects, then you can stop worrying about it
 
KimHen5

It is hard to cope at the best of times, but medication is a trial and error process at best to find something that suits. As an adult you have a choice of what side effects you are willing to put up with and cope with. Not so easy as a child so it is important find something that works right. I have had a new med added so it never really stops but you cannot second guess you neurologist and most do not like it if they find you looking up the internet no matter how right you are. So you need to make it seem like its there idea.
 
Hi Kim, yep it sucks.
I'm with you on the Lamictal, I went on it August 2011 and was really hoping for it to work too. Got the rash and swollen eyes/face the very first day. Went off it instantly until everything cleared up, then back on at a very low dose. Was able to ramp up to a decent amount and it did lower the seizures, but that only lasted a few months.
Two weeks ago switched to Vimpat, and just emailed my doc yesterday to let them know I'd had enough and wouldn't be giving that another day. HORRID on the mood, felt angry and sad and hopeless and had no desire for anyone/thing. Life felt doomed in a very short period of time - and it was a low dose once a day!
So yep you're right - meds suck.
Going to look at upping my original med (Carbamazepine, nine years running) or maybe going back on the Lamictal. I was on Topamax for a few years but that stopped working too. Looking at surgery next year tho so I don't have to do the med game anymore.
Just so you know - you have just as much of a say in what drugs your daughter goes on as the doctor does. If there's one you're uncomfortable with and that's the one he picks, say no. Or if there's one that you're really excited about, push for it, demand it actually. We're the ones who have to take it, not them.
Give your girl a HUGE HUG for me, and always remember how much we're here for you guys. It's a hard diagnosis to swallow, and friends make all the difference :)
 
Thank you guys, really! I feel a bit better already so thankfully it won't be a downer day all together : )

I really do love our Neurologist and since we're so new to this whole thing I take their word at gospel. I research so I can kind of know what they're talking about at our appointments & I can ask relevant questions then & there. They are quite awesome & we feel so fortunate to have an office & doctor we like so much.

I wonder at what point we start to explore the diet? She's tried Keppra, Depakote & Lamictal. They all offer seizure control (with the exception of Keppra, which controlled t-c but made her have a ton of absence throughout the day) but the side effects are just too much.

I wish epilepsy would just take a hint & go the hell away. Haha!
 
KimHen5

Could not agree more about epilepsy going away, but whats the chance. Start the diet when you are ready and not before. I was not saying you do not take their word, its just a lot of the time to get what you want you need to make them think its there idea. All the questions are awesome even after years so ask any you want and all of us will try and answer.
 
Any chance she could try neurofeedback?
 
I can COMPLETELY sympathize!! Our Jon (who's eight) is now on his 9th med. Most of them didn't work -- the latest cocktail (Zonegran and Keppra) seem to be giving some relief.

Just some thoughts based on our own experience:

1) Jon DID become seizure free (from tonic-clonic and tonic seizures) for almost a full year on the Ketogenic Diet, and was able to come off of ALL meds for awhile. Might want to give that a whirl. This med is especially helpful for myoclonic seizures (He recently had a relapse, but see below)

2) We have found that gut issues are causing issues with Jon's seizures (perhaps even part of the cause of the seizures). He tends to have chronic diarrhea -- and this has skewed the Ketogenic diet, because when he's having diarrhea, he's not absorbing the fats correctly. It also prevents the meds from being absorbed correctly -- so it may not be that the meds aren't working, but that he's just not absorbing and metabolizing them correctly.

So...after a brief hospitalization, we have been working hard to tackle the gut issues (eliminated some foods that seemed to increase diarrhea), and he has much better seizure control -- we're now going 3 or 4 days seizure free, when several weeks ago he was having anywhere from 1 to 9 tonic seizures a day. He's also almost completely weaned off of Diazepam now, so that's one less med!!

Jon's seizures are different from your daughter's, but here's a run-down of his meds and side effects and efficacy:

1) Keppra - he was on this from age 18 months to 2 years. At this point in time he was having infrequent tonic-clonic (grand mal) seizures --about once a month. The Keppra did not decrease the seizure frequency. Side effects as a baby were depression (didn't smile or laugh much during that 6 months).

However, it was recently added back in (about 4 weeks ago), and at a higher dose, it does seem to be helping with the daytime tonic seizures -- especially the photosensitive ones. I also believe that this med is especially helpful with Myoclonic seizures. Side effects at age eight (almost 9) are aggression (pinching, slapping, scratching) and super-hyperactive frenzies. However, the hyperactivity has been calming down since we've been weaning Diazepam, so it seems the two meds were acting as some sort of catalyst.

2) Topomax -- he was on this med from age 2 to age 6. It gave him complete seizure freedom for 3 1/2 years (from tonic-clonic or grand mal seizures), and then stopped working, even at very high dose. Side effects: at low dose, none except that he didn't sweat, so had to be careful he didn't get overheated. At high dose he lost most of his spoken language.

3) Trileptal -- he was on this from 6 1/2 to age 7. Horrible horrible horrible!! His seizures got worse, and he became psychotic and hyperactive -- to the point that his teacher's aide thought his was demon-possessed, and the principle of his school was working very hard to get him kicked out (she couldn't do that legally, because his behavior issues were related to his disability/meds, but she tried her darndest).

4) Lamictal (sigh!!) allergic rash, vomiting, diarrhea -- only on a few days.

5) Depakote -- age 7 to 7 1/2. Little effect in the beginning, but did work in conjunction with the Ketogenic diet. Bad side effects -- bone marrow disease and damage to liver -- had to wean off after 6 months.

6) Ketogenic diet (Johns Hopkins protocol 4:1 ratio) -- started at age 7 and still on now. Didn't work for first 6 weeks, then kicked in and gave complete seizure control for almost 1 year, even when we had to wean the Depakote. Recent relapse, but probably because of diarrhea -- we think if that is under control, the diet will kick back in. Jon didn't have any negative side effects from the diet.

7) Clonazapam. This started out as a rescue drug, then he was on it for about 1 week every night. It didn't seem to stop the seizures, but the side effects were wonderful!! He was much calmer, less agitated, very self-controlled and focused. Unfortunately, you can't stay on Clonazapam very long because it's highly addictive, and the body grows tolerant.

8) Diazepam (Valium). When he was weaned off the Clonazapam he was put on Diazepam to prevent breakthrough seizures. We didn't see that Diazepam helped with seizure control, but unlike the Clonazapam (both drugs in same benzo family), it caused severe hyperactivity and aggression and insomnia (Valium is supposed to calm you and make you sleepy, but in kids it can have the opposite effect). The side effects lessened as we lowered the dose. He's on his last week of this med right now, and we're glad to get rid of it!!

9) Zonegran - Jon started this about 2 months ago. It worked immediately at a low dose to control the tonic-clonic seizures. He recently started a higher dose at bedtime, and that has helped him to sleep much better at night and has almost eliminated the nighttime tonics. Side effects have been a severe loss of appetite (but giving at night has been helping with better daytime appetite), diarrhea, and now at a higher dose, he requires a couple brief daytime naps (but I'm not minding that).

Also, some supplements that we have found helpful are magnesium (helped a lot with sleeping at night), fish oil (helped cut back on seizures, and also I think good for his gut), and a multi-vitamin with lots of the B vitamins and other good stuff like selenium, etc.
 
Wow, Karen. You sound like you've been through the wringer : |

I really hope the Zonegran continues to be beneficial. We've had lots of tummy issues with her Depakote. At 9 years of age & needing naps throughout the day, how does that work with a school schedule?
 
And thank you Nakamova on the neuro feedback suggestion. Fascinating! We are heading to the neurologist office now & I will definitely bring that up. I wonder if insurance covers any part of that??
 
Neurofeedback is still considered "alternative" enough that most insurance doesn't cover it, except in a few instances where it's used to treat ADD/ADHD. A lot of neurologists are reluctant to endorse it, since there haven't been large widespread studies on standardized systems. But it has helped people with intractable seizures, and might be worth trying since the meds have failed. You might want to show the neurologist this article http://www.stanford.edu/group/brainwaves/2006/FoundationsofNeurofeedback.pdf if he's skeptical.

You could also try contacting the Peoria-based authors of this paper http://counselingoutfitters.com/vistas/vistas11/Article_48.pdf for advice and/or a referral.
 
So far this semester, Jon is receiving at-home instruction, because he was too medically fragile at the beginning of the term to be in school -- he was having 1 to 3 seizures a day, so was in a post-ictal state most of the time, and the least little stimulation (bright lights, noisy environment) would trigger a seizure. When he's having a lot of seizures, he also has headaches, and just wants to sleep a lot, and finds it hard to focus.

We've got better seizure control now -- he's in a pattern where he'll go 3 days seizure free, and then the next 2 days he'll have 3 seizures, and then he'll be seizure free again for 3 days. So...during the seizure free days, we try to pack in as many lessons as possible when he's alert -- in between the short little naps he takes. He'll go in and lie down for about 5 to 10 minutes, and then pop up and come out and be ready to go. So...for the time being we're just following his body rhythm -- we have a lesson ready to go when he's up and about. We're making some progress in some areas, treading water in others, and falling way behind in some areas.

He's got an Individualized Education Plan and a specialized curriculum. When he gets better seizure control, we're hopeful he can get back in school.
 
Wow - see this is why I don't like to complain. I really hope you get some good support throughout this. You sound like an amazing mom. I guess we all do what we have to do right? Really hoping he improves. Thanks for sharing.
 
KimHen,
I am so sorry to hear you are having to try so many different medicines. I am going to pray that you will find the right med or combination of meds that will provide some relief for Ellie. Were you able to get a 504 plan in place for her so her school will accommodate for any of her needs?

I am wishing the best of luck to you. Please keep us updated.
~Beth
 
Kim, as far as when to start the diet, your daughter is probably a good candidate right now. Usually a neurologist will recommend the diet when a child has failed two or three meds. However, Johns Hopkins is now using the Ketogenic diet as first-line treatment for myoclonic seizures in infants -- not waiting around for them to fail two or three meds.

As I mentioned before, myoclonic seizures are one of the types of epilepsy that respond best to the Ketogenic diet -- the success rate for myoclonic seizures is much higher than kids with other types of epilepsy - (Jon has temporal lobe epilepsy, very hard to cure, but even so, the Keto diet bought him a year of seizure freedom).

I recommend that you research the diet, and consider if this is a lifestyle change you're willing to make. The Charlie Foundation and Matthew's Friends are two websites you'll find helpful -- they have research articles, and all sorts of resources, including recipes, and wonderful forums where you can get advice from other parents and (on Charlie site) an very experienced nutrionist.

http://www.charliefoundation.org/

http://www.matthewsfriends.org/

If you think this is a path that you'd like to take, you can discuss with your neurologist at next visit. One consideration that he/she might bring up is that your daughter is now 11, and sometimes older children have some difficulty making such an abrupt change in their diet, especially when they're entering adolescence and tending to spend more time out with thier friends and such. This is something that you'd need to discuss with your daughter -- because the diet requires complete commitment -- no cheating!! Children at this age can do the diet and have good success, but they need to commit.
 
I found this study on the Keto diet with adolescents (slightly older than your daughter, but she'll be there soon). When you pull up that page, you have to scroll way, way down through a whole bunch of other studies.

http://site.matthewsfriends.org/upl...ficacy_ketogenic diet _specific_syndromes.pdf

45 adolescents --ages 12-19 -- were followed on the Keto diet at Johns Hopkins Med center and also the University of Texas, Houston Med center.

At 6 months, 28 patients (62%) still on the diet, and of them:
8 (29%) were seizure free or had at least a 90% improvement in seizures
6 (21%) had between 50-90% seizure improvement.
 
yes med do suck , I'm on my 22nd in 50 years.
The longest went seizure free most likely was 4 1/2 months.
Bio feedback use to work for my seizures when I had auras.:agree:
 
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