Can photosensitivity CAUSE epilepsy?

[speber]

Photosentivitity can trigger a seizure in many people, but I don't think it *causes* the underlying seizure disorder.

It doesn't bother me anymore (not since I was about 10yrs old)...but my FIRST seizure was while watching 'Speed Racer' (Japanese animation) on a Saturday morning.

I wonder if 'once triggered'--the dam is broken?
:twocents:


[edit: this discussion is a tangent that was split off to preserve the original topic of the original thread]

 

[Bernard]

I understand your point, but the seizure threshold had to be abnormally low already for Speed Racer (or any similar stimulous) to trigger the seizure in the first place.

 

[Zoe]

Bernard,
I don't think a person's seizure threshold would be "abnormally" low to have photosensitivity. What they have is sensitivity to light, or develop it from repeated exposure. that will trigger reflex seizures. Over time, thinking of the kindling model of epilepsy, this can become a chronic disorder to repeated exposure to the irritant, in this case lighting. The same might hold true for other sensitivies too. Also, keep in mind, that in the kindling model, the initial exposure to an irritant is not harmful and causes no reaction; it is the repetition, the frequency of the repetiion, that leads to the problem developing, the overload. It is possible that Puwono's son's seizures were triggered by photosensitivity. This abstract is from Pub Med:


1: Exp Neurol. 1986 Feb;91(2):343-54.

Lateral geniculate kindling and long-lasting photosensitivity in cats.

Wada Y, Minabe Y, Okuda H, Jibiki I, Yoshida K, Yamaguchi N.

The kindling response of the lateral geniculate body (GL) was compared with that
of the amygdala, using cats. Daily electrical stimulation in the GL group led to
the generalized tonic-clonic convulsion in most subjects and the resulting state
of seizure susceptibility was long-lasting, as in the amygdala group. The
kindling response of the GL differed from that of the amygdala in some respects,
i.e., rapid kindling, short latency for seizure generalization, a different
pattern of behavioral seizure development, and seizure regression during the
course of kindling. The effects of photic stimulation with pentylenetetrazol
administration were also examined before and after kindling in both groups. This
study revealed that the photically induced myoclonus, at times proceeding to the
generalized tonic-clonic convulsion, was provoked repeatedly as a result of GL
kindling, whereas none of the amygdala-kindled cats showed such marked
photosensitivity. These photically induced seizures were invariably observed for
at least 4 weeks after GL kindling. Our results suggest that a neural mechanism
participating in GL kindling is different from that in amygdala kindling, and
that there might be cross-sensitization between seizure susceptibility resulting
from GL kindling and photosensitivity.

PMID: 3943578 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

 

[speber]

'Overload' is the operative term....

....not many words describe it better (for my own experience anyway) so I would entertain the kindling theory as a possibility. I was just lucky enough to somehow grow out of that particular aspect (photosensitivity) of my own affliction. I will admit though, Pokemon bothers me when I view it. I can stare into strobe lights of varying speeds, but I simply cannot handle an extended session of that cartoon!?!?


Good work Zoe!:tup:

 

[Zoe]

Speber,
We can also "unlearn" a conditioned response, as with kindling and learn other behaviors to replace the negative response (seizures) as well. I don't think you were lucky so much as you were just smart and sensitive enough that you figured out what to do that helped you.

 

[brain]

ZOE:

I don't think you can "unlearn" it. I just learn
to avoid it if I'm not trapped into it or
mesmerized in it.

Sometimes when "I" think I got out of it in a
timely fashion and I'm ok, but it won't take long
until it backfires and causes a chain reaction,
like "toppled domino" effect. You just can't
stop it once it starts.

HOWEVER, on the FLIP-SIDE of the coin, IT IS
TRUE that children CAN OUTGROW Epilepsy;
but they are also finding out that it can come
back years later (like 20-30-40 years later) to
haunt them again, but to a different type of
a seizure.

For example: I used to have "Drop Attacks"
(known now as Atonic), but once my son was
born it just "evaporated", until mid-90s, it came
back and why :huh:

While I only had a couple spells of it, but there
was no explanation for it, but it's still very rare
that such attach to happen, but why did it
return. So after reading, I learned that Epilepsy
can go into "remission".

So I began to sit back and think, about these
people who claim to be "seizure-free", "Are they
REALLY seizure-free?" I ask myself, "or are they
in remission?"

Then I see postings where people had posted,
I had been seizure-free for XX years and all of
a sudden I'm getting XX seizure(s) again. And
they don't understand; they're confused, angry,
frustrated, and of course furious of having to be
back on "meds" again. Some have had to loose
their jobs, licenses, etc.

I'm observing this closely. All of them did not
have brain surgery or any type of invasive -
or non-invasive. They had just been on meds.
Their seizure-free period ranged from 3 years
to the longest being 19 years before being
smacked.

I see 3 types of people:

1) Those who have the same type of seizures
who had before.

2) Those who had the same type of seizures
they had before plus a new one or two. And
they're confused. As one put it "How did my
epilepsy grow? I thought it was gone for good?"
*good point and good question*

3) Those who had seizures before, but it's
not the same as the one they had before but
a totally brand new type(s) to them (and they
are totally scared because it's not like what
they had before so they're loaded with ???
to no end at sight. They have the confirmation
and knowledge of EEG, AED's, etc.
But nothing about these new seizure(s)
that they now have or these new med(s) they
have to be on now).

 

[Zoe]

I don't think you can "unlearn" it. I just learn to avoid it if I'm not trapped into it or mesmerized in it.

Sometimes when "I" think I got out of it in a timely fashion and I'm ok, but it won't take long
until it backfires and causes a chain reaction, like "toppled domino" effect. You just can't
stop it once it starts.

Hi Brain,
In behavioral therapy, which has a long history of being useful in learning to stop seizures, the "unlearning process" is called desensitization. You already do some of that in the ways you develop to avoid having a seizure. My "seizure behavior" is what I spent about five years learning to modify to bring my seizures under control. The behavioral aspects of seizures and seizure control are not much recognized; we feel so helpless, and are led to believe we are helpless to do anything to control the seizures on our own.

What I was learning by taking a behavioral approach was to alter my physical responses to the seizures, which are not entirely out of our conscious and willful control. Pavlov demonstrated more than a hundred years ago that nervous system functions are not as involuntary as we thought, but can be conditioned.

Think about it, if you were toilet trained or learned to talk, in the process you had to learn to control your breathing and your nervous system. Something as basic as willfully changing our breathing, using the 2nd breathing exercise in the link Robin posted earlier, for example, can change the course of a seizure, even stop one in progress.
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/ART00521

If "seizure behavior" can't be unlearned how do you account for me being seizure free? I didn't grow a new temporal or frontal lobe, nor did my brain scaring disappear. What changed was my "involuntary" response to seizures. You are doing this too as you note in your post. If you have figured out how to avoid or stop a seizure in one situation, you likely can capitalize on this and learn to stop others as well. This abstract is to an earlier case study on using classical conditoning techniques to manage a seizure disorder. If you couldn't "unlearn" seizure behavior you wouldn't be able to learn to avoid them in any way as you have done.

Psychosomatics 16: 65-67, 1975
Copyright © 1975 Academy of Psychosomatic Medicine


Treatment of Grand Mal Epilepsy by Covert and Operant Conditioning Techniques
A Case Study
LLOYD K. DANIELS Ed.D.1
1 From the Department of Psychology, Central Connecticut State College, New Britain, Connecticut 06050



Grand mal seizures were aborted by thought stopping and covert reinforcement and then eliminated after training sheltered workshop personnel in operant conditioning principles. Although episodes reoccured following a series of unfavorable events, there is evidence that this disorder can be treated by covert and operant conditioning strategies.

An early report of the use of a behavioral control procedure using classical conditioning to abort epileptic seizures has been traced by Efron (1956) to a study by Gowers who, in 1881, described the use of a ligature, applied above the elbow, paired with a non-specific stimulus, which eventually inhibited seizures without the ligature. Efron's own study describes the use of an unpleasant odor as a specific sensory stimulus to abort the development of an aura that consisted of five sequentially elicited components. Efron refers to another earlier report by Lyons in which a tight garter was applied to the knee at seizure onset. In a later study, Efron (1957) established that a second order conditioned reflex could be established to prevent seizures if two stimuli (odor of jasmine and an inexpensive silver bracelet) were presented to the patient simultaneously. Eventually, the patient could arrest the seizure simply by staring at the bracelet. Of interest in these investigations, is that although conditioning arrested seizures following onset, they were not eliminated entirely.

Since antecedent events often elicit anxiety responses and may precipitate seizures, counter-conditioning procedures, such as systematic desensitization, may be the treatment of choice in reducing seizure frequency.

Parrino (1971) describes the effectiveness of systematic desensitization in treating a hospitalized patient exhibiting violent episodes of bizarre muscular movements which were elicited by antecedent stimulus events present in the environment. Adams, Klinge, and Keiser (1973) also succeeded in inadvertently decreasing seizure frequency for a 14-year-old-female whose major problem was self-injurious behavior caused by falling from a sitting position.

Operant strategies used to eliminate seizures have included the withholding of parental attention (Gardner, 1967), and the manipulation of a variety of environmental contingencies (Richardson, Lal and Karkalas, 1972). Flannery and Cautela (1972) instructed teacher-therapists employed in a community school for severely retarded adults to use a variety of primary reinforcers to control seizures for a 22-year-old-male retardate, and Sternab and Friar (1972) successfully treated a patient with nocturnal generalized motor seizures using electroencephalographic feedback.

Mostofsky's review of the classical and operant literature further supports the view that a wide variety of behavior therapy strategies may be successful in controlling epileptic seizures even when organic pathology is evident and appropriate medication has not been effective (1972).

The present study differs from the above in that covert conditioning techniques were used in conjunction with the manipulation of the environment to treat grand mal epilepsy as well as several other maladaptive approach and avoidance behaviors associated with seizure episodes.

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/16/2/65
Link to some of the earlier studies also involving EEG biofeedback"
http://www.neurotrends.com/epilepsy.html

 

[Bernard]

What they have is sensitivity to light, or develop it from repeated exposure. that will trigger reflex seizures.

It's an interesting theory, but I'd like to see some research showing how repeated exposure to light leads to seizures in someone who has never had seizures/epilepsy before. I think there are some assumptions in there that need to be proven.

Once seizures occur, the operant conditioning/kindling/etc. could definitely be a factor IMO.

 

[Zoe]

It's an interesting theory, but I'd like to see some research showing how repeated exposure to light leads to seizures in someone who has never had seizures/epilepsy before. I think there are some assumptions in there that need to be proven.

Once seizures occur, the operant conditioning/kindling/etc. could definitely be a factor IMO.

A perfectly "normal" brain can be kindled, causing a seizure disorder to develop over time. That's the process the kindling model attempts to clarify to understand seizure disorders. A Google search on "reflex epilepsy" will give you more than 700 links. A person wouldn't need to be predisposed to seizures for kindling to work. It is the intensity and frequency that facilitates the process of kindling. Over time, once kindling has occurred, it takes less and less of the irritant to provoke the reaction. So maybe a little bit of time in front of a video game is no problem, but over time and with frequent repition, it could become an irritant [overload] to the nervous system. I think the same would hold true with exposure to chemicals, sounds, and foods. You may also want to check out this very good article on the way kindling may work in development of chemical sensitivivity.
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/lymecfs/kindling.htm

 

[brain]

ZOE: I read it all, but there's a problem with it.
1) I'm sound asleeeeeeeeep!
2) I'm sound asleeeeeeeeeeeeeep!
3) I'm sound asleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!

I think you get the idea, I'm in snooze cruise!
Since majority of all my seizures are during
stage II, III, and even IV.

It's rare that seizures occur during the day
time, but during vEEG, I get a heck a lot of
abnormal readings and spikes and tripping the
XLEvent.

If I were hooked up to the machine right now
and typing to you. I could be tripping the
XLEvent off - they had to turn the alarm off
when I was awake. Because "I" was fine when
I was awake, they could watch me on video
in spite of the EEG oddities.

It doesn't matter if I was off of meds or on
meds. They were more concerned about those
nocturnals than anything else. The only time
they turned it on (alarm) was when I was
asleep.

So QUESTION:

How does one "unlearn" something when you're
"OUT COLD" and "semi-unconscious" or even
"unconscious"?

I believe I had posted a couple of my medical
reports in the Staff Room and I can't remember
if it remarked that, but I could post one in there
and have a Staff confirm it is so.

 

[Zoe]

If you are mesmerized with the idea that you can do absolutely nothing to reduce your risk of having a seizure, you probably can't, except by accident, not design.
If you do have an interest in what's been done in the field regarding remediation of nocturnal seizures, check out the new thread on this topic.

 

[Zoe]

Teaching the brain to Seize

....not many words describe it better (for my own experience anyway) so I would entertain the kindling theory as a possibility. I was just lucky enough to somehow grow out of that particular aspect (photosensitivity) of my own affliction. I will admit though, Pokemon bothers me when I view it. I can stare into strobe lights of varying speeds, but I simply cannot handle an extended session of that cartoon!?!?


Good work Zoe!:tup:

Think about kindling, what it is and how it affects the brain over time. Think of water torture, the first drops of water have little effect; over time and too much repetion, it can literally overload your system and drive you insane. Think kindling. There's been lots of research in this area, check it out. This is the primary model for how epilepsy develops that was first formalized in the 1960s, not just theory now for decades.

At the outset, the brain is perfectly normal. The initial stimulus used for kindling is benign, has no adverse effect. It is the repeated exposure, the frequency, that becomes overwhelming and leads to the seizure disorder developing over a period of time, overstressing what the brain can handle. In the beginning, the person or lab animal in experimental studies does not have a low threshold for seizures. It is a low threshold for seizures that develops as a result of the kindling process. By analogy, this may be the process that causes seizure disorders to develop over time by overwhelming exposure\kindling to artificial sweeteners, gluten, caffeine, MSG, or other foods and substances. This abstract below deals with using light to cause seizure disorders to develop. The brain was normal at the outset, but damaged by the kindling process.

The good news is that removing the irritant may lead to the conditioned response becoming unconditioned\overcome when there is no longer any repeated exposure--see pokemon links below. This was certainly true in some of the early studies on Pavlovian conditioning. I've not seen such studies related to seizures but this was a part of my training to "unlearn" my seizures. The articles may be good for Amanda to read. Bernard, do you know how to link her to this?

Photic-Induced Sensitization: Acquisition of an Augmenting Spike-Wave Response in the Adult Rat Through Repeated Strobe Exposure
D. J. Uhlrich1,2, K. A. Manning1, M. L. O'Laughlin1,2 and W. W. Lytton3
1Department of Anatomy and 2Neuroscience Training Program, University of Wisconsin-Madison Medical School, Madison, Wisconsin; and 3Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, State University of New York, Downstate Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York

Submitted 8 July 2005; accepted in final form 14 August 2005
J Neurophysiol 94: 3925-3937, 2005; doi:10.1152/jn.00724.2005
0022-3077/05 $8.00

It is well established that patterns of sensory input can affect neuroplastic changes during early development. The scope and consequences of experience-dependent plasticity in the adult are less well understood. We studied the possibility that repeated exposure to trains of stroboscopic stimuli could induce a sensitized and potentially aberrant response in ordinary individuals. Chronic electrocorticographic recording electrodes enabled measurement of responses in awake, freely moving animals. Normal adult rats, primarily Sprague-Dawley, were exposed to 20–40 strobe trains per day after a strobe-free adaptation period. The common response to strobe trains changed in 34/36 rats with development of a high-amplitude spike-wave response that emerged fully by the third day of photic exposure. Onset of this sensitized response was marked by short-term augmentation of response to successive strobe flashes. The waveform generalized across the brain, reflected characteristics of the visual stimulus, as well as an inherent 6- to 8-Hz pacing, and was suppressed with ethosuximide administration. Spike-wave episodes were self-limiting but could persist beyond the strobe period. Sensitization lasted 2–4 wk after last strobe exposure. The results indicate visual stimulation, by itself, can induce in adult rats an enduring sensitization of visual response with epileptiform characteristics. The results raise the question of the effects of such neuroplastic change on sensation and epileptiform events.

Full article
http://jn.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/94/6/3925

Neuroscience for Kids - Pokemon on the BrainPokemon is the popular Japanese cartoon show that has swept across the world ... This may have caused the seizures associated with the Pokemon episode (#38) ...
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/pokemon.html

Neuroscience for Kids - New Filter Battles Pokemon SeizuresThe researchers studied 25 people who suffered from seizures triggered by visual images. Original Pokemon scenes caused seizures in 56.5% of the trials ...
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/newpok.html

 

[RobinN]

This brings to mind a friend of mine. We are very close and don't get the chance to talk as often as we would like. We were overdue for a chat, and she said that I came to mind while she was blow drying her hair. Then everyday after that she said when she dries her hair, there I am, I pop up in her mind. This is a type of kindling. Of course it is a pleasant thought, (of course it is :agree: ). So she doesn't mind it happening. But add to that the element of fear when your mind gets locked onto a certain thought, smell, visual, or sound. Especially if you are expecting the worst. Even on a subconscious level we are working issues out. There you go.

Your mind is working the same problems out when you are asleep as when you are awake. Working through irritants, progressive relaxation, breathing, nutritional changes, can allow the kindling not to be necessary any longer.

I was just thinking about how when you have an itch and you don't want to scratch it. Your mind plays games with you and makes it even worse. With practice you can change the course of that itch by pinching or irritating another area, or thinking about something more powerful.

I should ask my friend if after we saw each other recently (i visited her in SF), if the images of me subsided.

This is fascinating Zoe.

 

[Bernard]

Interesting reading Zoe. I'm open to the possibility that the chicken came before the egg, but it still seems like there is another factor in the equation (a predisposition) because otherwise, empirical evidence of people developing seizure conditions from certain jobs/situations (for example - people working in discos/raves/whatever with flashing strobe lights every night, pokemon cartoon animators who watch that stuff everyday as part of their job, etc.) would be expected.

 

[Zoe]

Interesting reading Zoe. I'm open to the possibility that the chicken came before the egg, but it still seems like there is another factor in the equation (a predisposition) because otherwise, empirical evidence of people developing seizure conditions from certain jobs/situations (for example - people working in discos/raves/whatever with flashing strobe lights every night, pokemon cartoon animators who watch that stuff everyday as part of their job, etc.) would be expected.

Hi Bernard,

Sometimes it isn't either\or, chicken\egg, but both. We aren't androids or clones-yet. We're individuals, so the type of exposure that would lead you to develop a seizure focus is unique, not the same as for someone else. And there are a multiplicity of factors that come into play. For example, it might be easier to teach you to develop a seizure disorder from strobe light exposure if you are also sleep deprived, or have taken a lot of caffiene, been unfed for three days, or deprived of water for 48 hours. The problem with models is that we tend to generalize them and think of them as truths which we apply to everyone. Generalizing in this way can lead to false conclusions, like "strobe lights cause seizures," or imagine the headlines "Reading found to be a Cause of Seizures." This would be true for some individuals, but not in general for everyone.

We can use kindling as a model, as it is in experimental settings, and look at how it may apply to our unique situations. For example, if you have an intolerance to lactose or gluten, eating foods with these might not make you seize as with an allergic reaction. However, lactose intolerance can result in lactic acidosis which will lower your seizure threshold. Overtime, you may "poison" yourself often enough that you develop, kindle, a seizure disorder. When this is done, you would seize even when not having drinking milk or otherwise ingesting lactose because repeated exposure would have irritated an area of your brain enough to damage it and leave it hyper-reactive\seizure prone.

One of the neat things about the kindling model is that it can also be used to "model" possibilities on how to decondition seizures that develop in this way. What Sterman was doing in his early experiments with cats was kindling them, to develop seizures then using biofeedback training to enable them to correct the problem, altering the way their brains functioned. Aren't you already doing this in how you and Stacey are strategizing to minimize the risks of her having a seizure during the times she is most likely to have one and using neurofeedback? Check out the article quoted below by Sig Othmer at EEG Spectrum:

Neurofeedback for the unstable brain

There is one large category of conditions for which EEG neurofeedback has shown efficacy, and which are not encompassed in the above. These are disorders which may be seen as arising out of fundamental instabilities in CNS regulation: seizures; bipolar disorder; schizophrenia; Panic Disorder; and Dissociative Identity Disorder. With respect to these disorders, the EEG training can be seen as stabilizing the CNS, and hence raising the operative threshold for kindling the instabilities.

Disregulation is the problem; self-regulation is the solution

The disorders referred to above as instabilities, together with the categories previously mentioned, jointly cover the vast majority of conditions listed in the DSM-IV. Empirical evidence exists that all of these disorders can be moved toward normalization of behavior with EEG neurofeedback. It is therefore proposed that most mental disorders may be regarded as disorders of disregulation, and that both psychopharmacology and neurofeedback act to restore more appropriate self-regulation. In this perspective, the brain is regarded as a multi-dimensional control system required to maintain its own stability entirely through self-regulatory techniques.

Link to full article:
http://brianothmerfoundation.org/rationalefornfb.htm

 

[Bernard]

Sometimes it isn't either\or, chicken\egg, but both. ... We're individuals, so the type of exposure that would lead you to develop a seizure focus is unique, not the same as for someone else. And there are a multiplicity of factors that come into play. For example, it might be easier to teach you to develop a seizure disorder from strobe light exposure if you are also sleep deprived, or have taken a lot of caffiene, been unfed for three days, or deprived of water for 48 hours. The problem with models is that we tend to generalize them and think of them as truths which we apply to everyone. Generalizing in this way can lead to false conclusions, like "strobe lights cause seizures," or imagine the headlines "Reading found to be a Cause of Seizures." This would be true for some individuals, but not in general for everyone.

:idea: Thanks Zoe. I can buy that (and I'm guilty as charged).

 

[Zoe]

This brings to mind a friend of mine. We are very close and don't get the chance to talk as often as we would like. We were overdue for a chat, and she said that I came to mind while she was blow drying her hair. Then everyday after that she said when she dries her hair, there I am, I pop up in her mind. This is a type of kindling. Of course it is a pleasant thought, (of course it is :agree: ). So she doesn't mind it happening. But add to that the element of fear when your mind gets locked onto a certain thought, smell, visual, or sound. Especially if you are expecting the worst. Even on a subconscious level we are working issues out. There you go.

Neat Robin,
You just hit on something very important here in relation to seizures. You can conjure up your friend's face whenever you want a reason to smile. The kind of positive kindling can also be applied to seizures, imagining or physically putting yourself in those situations where a seizure doesn't happen, getting "locked into certain thought, smell, visual or sound," as you said. But in this case locking into those cues that can avert or abort a seizure. Over time, an alternate kindling may take place, like with neurofeedback that corrects or overrides the type of kindling that led the seizure disorder to develop. Thanks, you just gave me my theme for the day!

 

[RobinN]

Overtime, you may "poison" yourself often enough that you develop, kindle, a seizure disorder. When this is done, you would seize even when not having drinking milk or otherwise ingesting lactose because repeated exposure would have irritated an area of your brain enough to damage it and leave it hyper-reactive\seizure prone.

This is exactly where my thinking has been Zoe. You say it so well. Thank you

 

[Zoe]

:idea: Thanks Zoe. I can buy that (and I'm guilty as charged).

Ok Bernard,
And if nothing mentioned above helps you develop a seizure disorder we can brainstorm on it and come up with something that will really kindle you silly!

 

[brain]

ZOE,

Then how does one who has a birth defect,
DNA, genetic disorder, etc - undo it what has
been done?

I've read what's been written up on, but I've
noticed the applications and theories are
majority based upon people who had this due
to age factor, groups, etc. Nothing is stated
in reference to those who are born with it.

It wasn't a "learned" issue, it was there (and
that's the problem, it's still there - GRRRRR!).

While all the journals and articles are really
great, but the implications are biased on
those as stated in the second paragraph
above. But again, it's awesome for those
who sustained such likewise after birth
and they should read all those articles.