Goodbye Wellbutrin. Hello Dexedrine

[Cinnabar]

Two years ago I was diagnosed with Temporal Lobe Epilepsy after my first Tonic Clonic seizure. My neurologist explained that I most likely had been having Simple Partials all my life e.g. the OBE's which I thought in the 70's was a spiritual thing. (Think Shirley McClaine's book "Out on a Limb".) Other strange occurances like garbeled, out of control speech, once frightening and puzzeling are known to me now as being symptomatic of TLE, Simple Partials.

My point is that having been on Wellbutrin for many years, treating my depression, did not in itself cause my Tonic Clonic. I had had Eplilepsy all along. It just threw me into the big time.

Of course, my neurologist instructed me to get off Wellbutrin. Done, doctor. No, anti-depressant subsitute. Here, for the first time since age fourteen, and I'm in my early fifties now, I'm without an anti-depressant. I've tried all the SSRI's and cannot tolerate one. (There must be one common ingrediant my system can't manage.)

So, I find a psychiatrist with background in neurology who's a fine talk therapist but absent minded when it comes to writing out scripts. (I always have to make sure he's writing me up for brand name and not generic, which I'm allergic to). Bad enough.

Here's where I think his greatest fault lies. He told me that apart from SSRI's there are no anti-depressants "available" for me. He said the next best thing he can do is place me on Dexedrine. Well, he's simply prescribing me "speed". I don't even know if Dex should be apart of my medication cocktail, wondering if it could induce a seizure.

15mg of Dex in the morning did intially pick me up and got me through the days. But I had quickly built up a tolerance. Of course, if I took more mgs I'd ease the depression and fly through my days. I refuse to fall into that "pill popping" trap. I take my 15 mgs in the morning and now it's like taking a placebo. The depression, now, is so great that on some days I cannot get out of bed. 38 years on anti-depressants and now zip In my early 20's I fell into a catatonic depression for three months, no one confident that I'd pull out of it. I can never go to that place again and I'm slipping. It is really criminal that I'm without an anti-depressant.

One would say "Find a new doctor!". But frankly, he's the best I've come across on the Island. (The last psychiatrist I fired, because he wanted to keep me on Wellbutrin even after knowing I seized. And there were others, for other reasons which would take a page to list.)

So, after all this explaining and "venting"...I thank you for listening. If anyone has information about anti-depressents "available", I'd welcolme the feedback. Again, I cannot tolerate SSRI's. If I present options to my doctor, he'll be likely to prescibe. This is what I'm dealing with! A doctor this pliable. Again, the doctors out here are the worst and I can't afford to leave him. It will be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

I've learned long ago that I "must" take responsibility for the welfare of my own health. Passively sitting back, the medical profession can easily run ruin on lives. I've been there. So, I have to be pro-active. And I don't even know if chronic depression can lead to seizures. I do know that mania can, but this I can keep under control.

My medication cocktail: Lamictal, Dexidrine, Clonopin, Geodon and Ambien (and the olive in the martini should be an anti-depressant)

I know this has been a long one. So, thanks for hanging in there with me...

 

[Nakamova]

There are some anti-depressants like the tricyclics, or Trazodone, or the newer MAO-inhibitors that are non-SSRI. However, as you know, all of the brain drugs have unpredictable and often unpleasant side effects, especially in combination with other meds. So if you can seek out alternative "anti-depressants" -- i.e. exercise and diet -- and maybe add group therapy to the mix, that might make for a decent "cocktail". And I always prefer a twist of lemon in mine

 

[Cinnabar]

Nak, thank you for reading through. Before presenting "anything" to my doctor, I'll be reading up on your suggestions. All these possibilites and he's not pulled out one from his hat. I know I pose a challenge as I have two other disorders which are interlinked to Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. This said, for example, he doesn't believe an EEG will give an accurate reading. Then my neurologist is ready to set me up for Visual Monitoring. Two opposing school of thoughts...One confused patient.

Given my complications, I believe they want to leave things as they are concerning meds. An "easy" route for them but a terrible journey for me. An ingrediant missing in my system since a young teen needed in order to function healthfully. Funtion at all.

I'm aware of side effects concerning combined medications but am willing to risk and then try another if need be. I've been through this cycle before.

Concerning excersize and diet. Before, all this has been insidiously creeping up on me, it was yoga every morning and flaxseed oil after a healthy breakfast. And then vitamines of course. I need to get back there but this kind of depression does thwart will power. I't will be a matter of straining, even though I'm fully aware of the benefits of excersize and that which good food provides.

I'll be looking up your med suggestions taking copious notes, no doubt. Certainly will be looking into how they play into the picture with Epilepsy and my other two conditions, again both linked to Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Counfounding to neurologists, psychiatrists, researchers.... Still, I can't see how an anti-depressant can throw off my cocktail entirely.

And I like a twist of lemon in a Long Island Ice Tea, which is lethal. Those days have long gone by...

Again, thank you, Nak

 

[Nakamova]

Even without depression, it can be hard to tackle diet and exercise, speaking from experience And it doesn't help when your docs aren't on the same page. I hope you get relief soon. I'm rooting for you!

Best,
Nakamova

 

[Cinnabar]

Even without depression, it can be hard to tackle diet and exercise, speaking from experience And it doesn't help when your docs aren't on the same page. I hope you get relief soon. I'm rooting for you!

Best,
Nakamova

Thanks. I can say that "Laughter is the best anti-depressant" in lue of a prescription. So, I do try to keep that going on. And I'm given much of this here, free of charge with no co-pays....

 

[Cint]

Hi Cinnabar,

I'm sorry to hear you're having such a rough time. As Nakamova has stated, diet and exercise are difficult to tackle in addition to depression. Also, since your body can't tolerate the SSRI's, your dr. should have tried you with tricyclics or the MAO-inhibitors.
Dr. Blumer, the neuropsychiatrist I used to see, had me on an SSRI as well as a tricyclic, and when those two didn't work for me, he started me on a small dose of Risperdol.

Didn't you once say your dr.is a neuropsychiatrist? Have you seen your neurologist recently? Is your AED causing you to go into another depression? And looking at your medication list, I believe that Geodon is a med that can cause seizures for some.

I do hope you find some answers soon. Keep your chin UP!

Cindy

 

[occb]

Hi cinnabar,

my partner also experienced a catatonic depression in his youth, and is currently on Lamictal and Venlafaxine (Effexor XR), an SNRI antidepressant. His doc had tried out SSRI's, MOAIs and tricyclics with him, and this SNRI was the only antidepressant he could tolerate.

Effexor is a tricky anti-depressant which can cause a whole lot of unpleasant side-effects. The most problematic thing with it is that you will have severe withdrawal symptoms if you miss doses, or are reducing off of it. I understand that Duloxetine (Cymbalta), which is a newer generation SNRI, isn't as bad with side-effects and withdrawal, and I don't know how Desvenlafaxine (Pristiq) is.

There are also other anti-depressants which don't fall into these antidepressant categories. Here's a site where you can read more about the different kinds of antidepressants there are:

http://www.healthyplace.com/depression/antidepressants/list-of-antidepressants/menu-id-68/

 

[darcness]

I have to agree with what Nakamova and Cint have said. Your best bet are some of the lesser used AD's that fall into the Tri-C category and the MOAI varients. Often times these medications can work very well, they just aren't prescibed as much anymore what with the "new" SSRI/SNRI meds available.

It's kind of like AED meds. Depakote and the other older meds are the "old stand by's" where as the newer meds like Keppra and Lamictal are the latest and greatest. Really none of this means squat to a patient because we all tolerate these medications differently. That's what happens when you're dealing with a human, who is by nature, different from any other single person.

I would ask your doctor about these types of AD's and see what he/she says. My wife is kind of going through the same thing with her AED meds right now. She seems to be having a really rough time with the Depakote after it worked really well for some months. I don't know if her levels are off or what, but something isn't right. We're going to the neuro on Monday to ask him about it.

Also, she's finally found an SSRI that works for her with Lexapro but the cost was high so we tried Celexa which doesn't seem to be working as well. Then again, it could be the Depakote, or a combo of both.

Who the heck knows. All these meds are so confusing.

 

[occb]

My partner just asked if you've tried Divalproex (Epival). It's both an anticonvulsant and effective for bipolar disorder, in particular the manic aspects. It's normally used in conjunction with Wellbutrin to treat bipolar disorder.

He has a friend who has bipolar disorder and mild seizures where the combo has been very effective.

 

[darcness]

My wife takes Depakote, which is the same thing as Epival. Just called different things cuz I'm in the States. It worked pretty good for a while, but seems to be causing a lot of strange happenings now.

It is one of the best monotherapy AED's there is so it might be worth a shot. Thing is, it's more of a mood stabilizer then it is for depression so it might not help much without the addition of another AD on top of it.

 

[Cinnabar]

Cindy, My anti-eplipeptic med, Lamictal, is not contributing to the depression. In fact it has anti-depressant properties, but apparently not enough. I am greatful, though, that it covers both Epilepsy and Bi-Polar Disorder territory. I failed to mention that I also take Clonopin which also has anti-seizure properties.

I will be looking into Risperdol. Thanks. And as far as Geodon goes, I'm looking into THIS very seriously..

I'm due to see my neurologist in a month and will discuss anti-depressants with him "once again". Thanks to you and everyone else I won't be walking in blind but will be armed with informatation.
____________________________________________________________________

ocb, I'm so sorry your partner suffered catatonic depression in youth. Everything shuts down and I need not go on further because perhaps he/she has shared the "existance" with you. It takes allot of strength to "come back". To be loudly applauded.

I will add Effexor XR to my list, while keeping those side effects in mind. I'll look into the SNRI's as that seemed to be effective. But will always have to keep in mind that each body is different.

I see Cymbalta advertised on TV and just, in fact, caught a commercial for Abilify. Another two I'll be exploring.

And thank very much for the link. I'll be getting into that tomorrow morning when I'm thinking at my best.

Your support and information is invaluable to me and I thank you greatly...

 

[darcness]

Yeah, Lamictal, Depakote, and many of the other AED meds also are used for bi-polar disorder and other mental health problems. The thing is that most of these are used as mood stabilizers, which don't really help all that much with depression. They work wonders for controlling mania and manic episodes though.

Also, Wellbutrin is more of a stimulating AD then anything else. That's why it's usually used in combination with a traditional AD to combat the "slowing" effect of many AD's. Abilify is much the same, used mainly as an add on.

This could be perhaps why your doing so poorly now Cinnabear. Sounds like you definitely need a true AD which works on more levels then something like Abilify or Wellbutrin. I'm sure you can find something outside of the SSRI class that will help you.

Good luck and definitely keep us posted.

BTW, Cymbalta is supposed to be a pretty good AD. Works well for both anxiety and depression.

 

[Cinnabar]

darkness, all these meds are baffling. Such complexities. All the interactions with each other. About Depakote: I was prescribed Depakote for my Bi-Polar Condition. It was an absolute "wonder" drug for me. I thought "So this is how I'm supposed to feel in the world?". Immediate relief from the depression and mania associated with Bi-Polar. Everything was lighter. Depression lifted, I calmed and my body lost the accustomed tension. The side effect was that my hair was falling out. My doctor immediately took me off of it. Literally, I cried. Because this truly seemed to be my answer. He then prescribed me Xanex. Period! This put me into great denial concerning Bi-Polar. I figured that if he didn't deem another med to treat Bi-Polar necessary, then I wasn't. I was younger then, irresponsible and in fact happy in denial. Needing to believe that I just had a "colorful" personality. Time caught up with me, I need not say more....
_____________________________________________________________-

ocb, Thanks for discussing this with your partner. I've never tried Epival. The similarity in name is reminding me of Elavil, one of the much older anti-depressants. It worked very effectively when I was fourteen. Yes. I was placed on Wellbutrin to treat both Bi-Polar and depression. But after my diagnosis of Epilepsy I was informed Wellbutrin could induce seizures. So, my whole cry here is that it wasn't replaced with an anti-depressant medication which would cause no risk for seizure. A step down from being prescibed Xanex for Bi-Polar...

 

[darcness]

Well let me ask you this Cinnabar...

Were you happy with your life back then? If so, then I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's the past and what's done is done. No sense in dwelling on it now. I know that's easy to say and much harder to do, but it's true. We all go through phases in our lives that our perceptions and personality gets altered. Whether it's from extrenal stimuli, our beleif systems, or whatever, we grow and change. The key is to remember that the past is the past and the only time that particularly matters is right now. Granted there is deeper points to this, but in essence that's what it's all about.

Instead of regretting the past, learn from it. Reflect on it, take what lessons you may from it, and move on. No one is perfect. Not doctors, not you, not me. We all have our flaws, so we're all bound to make mistakes at some point. Learning from those mistakes vs. letting them control us is the struggle we all have to face.

I really think that your in a good place right now, even if you can't see it. You're at a point were you realize you want to make some changes and be happy. There is going to be rough times ahead and your going to have to do some serious self-work, but you can definitely get to where you want to be. Ask your doctor about AD meds, keep in touch with your neuro, and if they aren't doing it for you, then look elsewhere. Whatever you do, just don't give up. You know what you want to do. Take it day by day and make it happen.

 

[CathyAnn31]

Effexor is terrible when you are coming off of it. Be careful with that one. It was downright scary for me.

This is probably a dumb question but what about St Johns Wort? It's over-the-counter. I don't know if it has the stuff you can't take in it or not.

Sorry you're feeling bad, and I hope you get your meds straightened out soon. Hang in there!

 

[Cinnabar]

darkness, back then mostly in high mania, I can tell you I was "very" happy with my life. But it was illusionary. The chemicals in my brain were doing the "Happy Dance" having little to do with "my" reality. It's been over ten years now since I've been stabilized for Bi-Polar Disorder and can really say that I don't look back with regrets because my moods, behavior had little to do with "me". It was all about a chemical imbalance. A disorder passed on from generations in my family.

Now, more in charge of my life, I look forward to getting as close to a place of peace as possible. In order for this to happen, I do need that extra help from an anti-depressant. One will be found and tried. And if it doesn't do it's job another one will be found and tried. I've been through the vicious circle with meds for Bi-Polar so I know what to expect. And thanks, I will be hanging in there.

 

[Cinnabar]

Thanks Cathy, I think I'll not waste any time researching Effexor. The challenging side effects were already mentioned here today.

As to St. John's wart. I hesitate to try it because as a holistic it may not marry my meds well.

Thanks so much for your advice and support...

 

[occb]

ocb, Thanks for discussing this with your partner. I've never tried Epival. The similarity in name is reminding me of Elavil, one of the much older anti-depressants. It worked very effectively when I was fourteen. Yes. I was placed on Wellbutrin to treat both Bi-Polar and depression. But after my diagnosis of Epilepsy I was informed Wellbutrin could induce seizures. So, my whole cry here is that it wasn't replaced with an anti-depressant medication which would cause no risk for seizure. A step down from being prescibed Xanex for Bi-Polar...

My partner is always willing to discuss meds -- he knows what it's like to be switched and experimented on. He, by the way, did poorly on Elavil, but, if it worked for you, I would explore that route with your neuro.

Elavil is a tricyclic AD. Tricyclics are an older class of AD and they tend to be more effective for more people and have fewer side-effects than the newer generation ADs. If your body can tolerate them, and they help you, I would opt for that kind instead of risking it with an SNRI.

 

[occb]

ocb, I'm so sorry your partner suffered catatonic depression in youth. Everything shuts down and I need not go on further because perhaps he/she has shared the "existance" with you. It takes allot of strength to "come back". To be loudly applauded... Your support and information is invaluable to me and I thank you greatly...

I'm always happy to share, if I have something to share Support I give freely.

He told me what it was like to be in that state, and I can't even imagine what it takes to come back from that. You have my deepest respect for having survived and thrived.

 

[occb]

I just had a thought -- my partner was prescribed Elavil as a sleep aid (25 mg taken at night). Perhaps that may be a more appropriate sleep aid for you than the Ambien, unless the Ambien is working very well? I also have an acquaintance who has fybromyalgia, and she takes Elavil for sleep as well (50 mg at this point).

Maybe that's another route you can explore with your doctor?