Fast learning and TLE epilepsy?

[eleniu]

Hi,

Fast learning and TLE epilepsy?

I have TLE seizures and was reading up on the subject and now I'm trying to sort out some of the strategies I've developed to cope with the seizures and also some possible "positive" side effects.

For the last 25 years I've been of medication totally, none medication whatsoever, and I actually didn't know I still had seizures until I came to this forum. So I need to totally change my life and my routines.

I've seen some articles on internet dealing with TLE and the plasticity of the brain, so the TLE could be a side effect of to much of a good thing in the brain?

Since I recognize some of the adaptation and learning as one of my strategies to cope with the seizures I wonder if there is more to read on this? I found one article, but naturally it was locked unless paid for. (Intrinsic Plasticity in Acquired Epilepsy: Too Much of a Good Thing?)

(My wife says I have an extreme ability to learn fast for some topics, I read up and took an examination of 3yrs pre university math in two weeks and the remaining full 3yrs education in 1yrs(that year I read the fourth pre university math). If I'm in a bad period, I tend to read advanced topics that I do not understand to relax myself and let the tv/radio play during night, just to keep myself busy even when I sleep, keeping the brain busy)

Thank you
Would be grateful if any of you had any info on this.
It felt like being in a squirrel wheel sometimes.

 

[Endless]

Hi, Eleniu,

Welcome to the forum!

Racing thoughts are common for people with TLE. It could be a side effect of the seizures, or the meds. People with epilepsy also have a higher rate of depression and I've wondered about bi-polar, too. I get hypergraphia (write way too much too fast) sometimes, and that's been mentioned as a side effect of TLE.

You know, my brain does things I don't understand. I get those "smart" periods too, where a superbrain comes out of nowhere and stays for awhile. Then it dissapears and I'm my old *much less smart* self. I also delve into advanced topics, and they all seem to be science. I go on these huge jags that I really can't control sometimes. I study stuff that I'd never get normally. Some of my last ones were biochemistry, string theory, man-made nano particles and neuroscience (to try to understand our disorder).

You'd think these intense smart periods would be a good thing, but they are not. I can't do anything else when I'm in it. And I mean nothing. The reading and writing is so obsessive. And for some reason I don't necessarily pick the topics. They pick me. After they are over I'm exhausted and am pretty much worthless for days. It's also hard on the people around me. (Just ask the poor people in here. They've been on the other end of listening to it sometimes. Big thank you to everybody.)

Now my memory is too shot to retain any of it for long. My whole brain is too shot. I think I've lost about 20 IQ points due to seizures, so my everyday self is a lot slower.

Wierd. I sleep with the tv on, too. I think for me it's more for the extreme tinnitus that I have due to another condition - IIH.

 

[eleniu]

wow, I thought I was grabbing in thin air with this, I do also not think anything good comes out of it, I usually tried to end my excessive periods with lots and lots of alcohol. Not a good idea since it only helps while intoxicated. Yes, it's awful actually, it is like a tension building up and no release in sight.

They talk something about a possible system of ion channels that deals with the plasticity of the brain in the article. I'll see if can find something more on this.

 

[Endless]

If there are articles you really want to read, most public libraries subscribe to a service that grants access to most everything.

 

[eleniu]

....

It's also hard on the people around me. (Just ask the poor people in here. They've been on the other end of listening to it sometimes. Big thank you to everybody.)

...

Hahaha, that is so funny, I just have to comment on this (I thought I shouldn't) but I do exactly the same thing, my father usually says I give people a "dose". He says that they afterward look like they have no clue what just happened

Weird with the tinnitus, I have that too, but it is quite low, maybe a 1 or a 2 on a 10 scale.

 

[Nakamova]

I don't have TLE, so I don't seem to have any of those "fast brain" moments, alas. But I wanted to welcome you to CWE!

I'm a big believer in positive methods of exploiting the plasticity of the brain. One seizure treatment that takes advantage of this is neurofeedback. It essentially re-trains the brain by toning up the good brainwaves and minimizing the bad ones. Unfortunately there's not enough standardized research on it to allow for widespread access or insurance coverage. You can read more about here on CWE.

Best,
Nakamova

 

[Cint]

Welcome Eleniu,

I have TLE, but I don't recall having any of those "fast brain" moments, either, but I suppose it depends on whether it stems from the right or left Temporal Lobe. Mine come from my left temporal lobe. As Endless said, TLE can cause hypergraphia, hyper-religious, racing thoughts, etc.

Here is good article about TLE:

http://epileptologie-bonn.de/cms/upload/workgroup/beck/brpathre.pdf

And a good book is: "The Brain That Changes Itself" ~by Norman Doidge
It talks about neuroplasticity.

 

[eleniu]

...

I'm a big believer in positive methods of exploiting the plasticity of the brain. One seizure treatment that takes advantage of this is neurofeedback. It essentially re-trains the brain by toning up the good brainwaves and minimizing the bad ones.

...

Yes I read about it on here for two weeks ago. I saw that there is a .org site for DIY neurofeedback. I guess there could possibly be some clever alternative not involving so much technology? Since all the toning is done by oneself? But the crux seems to tell the brain where the error is and some sort of accurate measuring probably has to take place. Sure, it totally believed in it first time I read it.

Thank you so much Nakamova for pointing me in the right direction previously, I am so so grateful, you don't know how grateful I am!

 

[eleniu]

Welcome Eleniu,

Here is good article about TLE:

h t t p://epileptologie-bonn.de/cms/upload/workgroup/beck/brpathre.pdf

And a good book is: "The Brain That Changes Itself" ~by Norman Doidge
It talks about neuroplasticity.

Thanks for the book tips, I'll see if I can get a hold on it somewhere.

I have one reply to the article already and the damage of the Hippocampus, can I post a link yet?
www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1064856376

this:

Some presentations described studies of epileptic human brain tissue removed during surgery to treat focal epilepsy (mainly temporal lobe epilepsy). For many years we have known that in epilepsy certain nerve cells are lost in specific areas of the brain, such as the hippocampus, but these studies are showing that the amount of damage may depend upon the age at which the epilepsy began. The researchers discussed the importance of correlating findings in animal studies with research on human epilepsies

I'll continue reading

 

[Nakamova]

Keep posting eleniu, and you'll be able to post links soon! See below, for those who want the clickable version: www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1064856376

 

[Nakamova]

I've put "The Brain That Changes Itself" on my wishlist. If anyone wants to give me an early Xmas present , hint hint...

 

[Cint]

I've put "The Brain That Changes Itself" on my wishlist. If anyone wants to give me an early Xmas present , hint hint...

onder: :xmas: in April?!

 

[Nakamova]

It snowed here yesterday! So I'm moving Xmas up.

 

[Endless]

I have TLE, but I don't recall having any of those "fast brain" moments, either, but I suppose it depends on whether it stems from the right or left Temporal Lobe. Mine come from my left temporal lobe.

That is a fascinating comment. My seizures are in my RIGHT temporal lobe. The left temporal lobe is where our language skills come from.

I think it might also matter where in the temporal lobe the seizures are happening. This wikipedia article on Hypergraphia mentions the limbic system.

I also find this fascinating because we're guessing I have a fair number of my seizures in the amygdala, where fear seizures come from. (The amygdala being part of the limbic system). Also the Olafactory system, where the seizures with weird smells would come from.

Huh.

 

[Rag]

That is a fascinating comment. My seizures are in my RIGHT temporal lobe. The left temporal lobe is where our language skills come from.

I also find this fascinating because we're guessing I have a fair number of my seizures in the amygdala, where fear seizures come from. (The amygdala being part of the limbic system).

I'm pretty sure I also get at least some right-sided seizures (if there's been movement that I've known about, it's most often been on the left side of my body) and amygdyla involvment sometimes (though maybe not the whole time). Some other symptoms I've had seem more consistent with left-sided seizures though, so I'm really not certain of where the main focus is (assuming there is one).

I'm pretty sure I've never had anything like hypergraphia though. I'm more likely to get a somewhat opposite problem, of having a lot of ideas going through my mind that are difficult to verbalise as clearly as I'd like; or at least difficult to write down in a clear and structured way because *alternative* verbal constructions for saying the same thing keep occuring, and I find it hard to prioritise or find the energy to sift through everything to get to the crux of what I really want to say. I'm not sure about accelerated learning either, though I certainly do get racing thoughts at times, which have often enough been associated with other experiences such as sleeplessness, nocturnal seizures, and daytime aura experiences (at least I think that's what they are).

Sometimes I do get into a more creatively productive frame of mind when this is going on and work very busily to get some kind of written work actually completed for a change, as if my mind is running at a higher speed than usual it goes through all the alternative ideas and options I can think of faster and more efficiently; also, it's very hard for me to switch off from something I started thinking about in that way before I've finished resolving it in my mind; it can indeed seem a little obsessive in that regard. The physical act of writing, strangely, is quite another matter (this is what I mean by it being almost the opposite of hypergraphia) as it's much more natural for me to want to arrange verbalisations into something close to their final form in my head before I even THINK about writing them down when I get into that frame of mind.

Example of what I mean in the above paragraph (I'm referring to one specific example I remember, though I've had numerous similar experiences). I remember once coming across a few lines of verse I'd written in an old notebook (had started writing something that came to mind and seemingly become bored or run out of ideas). I began pondering whether there was anything I could do with them, then remembered I'd just run the bath, and got in, leaving the notebook in the other room. Some time later I suddenly noticed the water was really pretty cold and that I really should be getting out before I froze (having not noticed much at all while I was in there). Then after I finished drying off and got dressed, I went into the other room, and qiuckly wrote down the whole lengthy poem I'd just contrived while in the bath, before I forgot it.

The whole poem was several pages long, running to about 70 or 80 lines altogether: the majority of which had been composed in one burst, in my head, just sitting there in the bath, rather oblivious to anything else. And I hadn't even been TRYING to think about the thing, or thought that I had any particularly good ideas for it: it just decided that it wanted to be created, or something! :woot: It was, by the way, in a regular, structured format (strict metric and rhyme scheme, and clear progression of ideas) throughout. If I get into that frame of mind it's far easier and more natural for me to put together something which is highly structured from the chaos of thoughts whirling through my mind, than something that isn't.

I'd regarded my occasional tendency to get into that mode as something that was just natural to me for some reason: but now that I've read this thread and the linked material I'm really starting to wonder if it could be seizure related. Come to think of it, I don't remember ever writing a single poem (or having much interest in doing so) before I began having seizure symptoms in my late teens/early adulthood; my interest in literature before that was pretty strictly confined to prose. I think the overwhelming majority of poems I've written have been composed in similar circumstances too (though the details might vary a bit).

This thread is really fascinating, anyway, it's given me plenty to think about!

 

[Endless]

I'm more likely to get a somewhat opposite problem, of having a lot of ideas going through my mind that are difficult to verbalise as clearly as I'd like

Oh, yes! That is my normal state of mind. I have trouble stringing two words together these days, can't remember what someone said or what I was going to say, or cant remember the words. I struggle a lot. For some reason things are easier for me in writing,. Audio, forget about it.

Your poetry process does sound like the racing superbrains we've been talking about. Do you think yours is a gift, a curse, or a little of both?

 

[Rag]

Your poetry process does sound like the racing superbrains we've been talking about. Do you think yours is a gift, a curse, or a little of both?

Ack! I WANT a superbrain! I get... a confused mishmashy one which tends to come up with interesting ideas at just the wrong moment, or is suffering too many weird distracting thoughts and feelings to really apply them very constructively most of the time. Not to say I won't succeed in producing *more* worthwhile stuff some day though; I try to remain optimistic.

I would say that to answer your question properly it would be necessary to separate positive (in the sense of potentially constructive) symptoms from negative symptoms, and know whether one would be possible without the other. I certainly get negative symptoms, or potentially positive symptoms I have difficulty working with, for a greater proportion of the time, and I'm not sure whether one would be possible without the other, so maybe I'm going to have to equivocate and go for "a little of both". I'm mostly conscious of all the things I feel I should be able to/should have done but haven't yet though; it does feel like a bit of a burden in that respect...

 

[Cint]

Sometimes I do get into a more creatively productive frame of mind when this is going on and work very busily to get some kind of written work actually completed for a change, as if my mind is running at a higher speed than usual it goes through all the alternative ideas and options I can think of faster and more efficiently; also, it's very hard for me to switch off from something I started thinking about in that way before I've finished resolving it in my mind; it can indeed seem a little obsessive in that regard. The physical act of writing, strangely, is quite another matter (this is what I mean by it being almost the opposite of hypergraphia) as it's much more natural for me to want to arrange verbalisations into something close to their final form in my head before I even THINK about writing them down when I get into that frame of mind.


I'd regarded my occasional tendency to get into that mode as something that was just natural to me for some reason: but now that I've read this thread and the linked material I'm really starting to wonder if it could be seizure related. Come to think of it, I don't remember ever writing a single poem (or having much interest in doing so) before I began having seizure symptoms in my late teens/early adulthood; my interest in literature before that was pretty strictly confined to prose. I think the overwhelming majority of poems I've written have been composed in similar circumstances too (though the details might vary a bit).

This thread is really fascinating, anyway, it's given me plenty to think about!

We do have a Creative Writing Page, so when you have that "urge" to write, you can post your writings here.

They say that TLE can/does bring out creativity in people. Here's an interesting article from the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/12/science/in-the-temporal-lobes-seizures-and-creativity.html

 

[Rag]

We do have a Creative Writing Page, so when you have that "urge" to write, you can post your writings here.

They say that TLE can/does bring out creativity in people. Here's an interesting article from the NY Times:

Thanks. Yes, I saw that section; I may post something in there in future. I haven't really looked at it that much yet though.

With the article, I've seen it fairly widely agknowledged that Dostoyevsky, Flaubert, and Lewis Carrol had epilepsy (I've also seen Carrol's symptoms attributed purely to migraine, which I find a bit unconvincing given that he was actually diagnosed with epilepsy in his own day.) I've often seen Van Gogh's and Poe's symptoms attributed more to alcohol or (especially Van Gogh) psychosis; though they and their work do seem to have a lot of typical TLE characteristics to me. I wonder whether their contemporary diagnoses became so ingrained in their legends as to influence subsequent thinking despite more advanced knowledge in recent years which really ought to lead to a reappraisal of their symptoms. I think it's fairly plausible that they may have self medicated with alcohol in order to try to reduce disturbing symptoms, and their work and experiences seem to show a lot of TLE-typical positive symptoms which are not really associated with alcoholism.

 

[fluffance]

This threads been quite an interesting read.
I have TLE, and my mum always tells me I have a "Monkey Mind" My mind is restless, racing thoughts and just keeps going and going and I want to find the off swithch!! Especially at bedtime.
In the past Ive slept with the TV on, but thinks its probably not helping, just engaging my brain more, so I dont have it on now.
I have obsessive moments. Everyone around me knows it!! I planned my bff's Hens party recently. I LIVED on the computer planning every detail. It was a massive extravaganza, I went totally overboard with every single detail. It was amazing, but I cried for a day after it was over. Dont know if it was a release after the hard work or I missed having something to sink my teeth into. My boyfriend was happy to have me back in the land of the living. I think thats why he hasnt proposed yet, doesnt want to see bridezilla. hahaha
Ive won every award there is to win at my job. When I find something to obsess about, I do. At least they're kinda positive things though. Using my powers for good, not evil
And talk, talk talk talk talk. Does anyone else talk alot????