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Below are the messages regarding gluten and glutamate we carried over from the group. We won't post to this thread anymore but to the next one on glutamate.
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-------------------Molly97 said:Zoe,
I'm currently on the GARD. I have had a lot of success in that, when I adhere to the diet, I have fewer seizures. Is this going to be different than the GARD group?
------------RobinN said:I am going to put myself on this. I want to feel better overall, and I have heard people report that weight came off easily. I have a few more products to remove from the kitchen and so I am announcing that I am going to do that this week. I will admit I have been buying spelt bread, and it is not gluten free. I am going to go find another bread recipe that is enjoyed by many in the yahoo GFCFkids group. I will post it in the recipe section.
Zoe said:Robin,
Be sure and plan before you go on the diet, so you aren't tempted to cheat. I am back on the diet again and am feeling better, not so easily frustrated or prone to anger and racing thoughts. I expect you'll find you rest better too. The effects of chronic inflammation can be subtle, we may think its our attitude but it could be our emotional control affected by chronic inflammation.
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Hi Molly,
If the diet is helping, why change it? I just checked DogtorJ's site and the diet says to avoid gluten. So you should already be on a gluten free diet to be in line with the G.A.R.D. diet.
There may be some confusion as the diet talks about glutmate and glut[a]mate not the same things. I'll post more on this later. Off the cuff, I'm concerned about what he wrote concerning beans as a source of glutamate and am checking this out too and will post more about this.
The gluten free diet eliminates gluten containing foods altogether. So, you should be able to combine the two with no problem. Just arrange your gluten free diet to include the foods eliminated on the GARD diet. What do you think?
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Hi Folks,
Below are links to two very good reads on gluten sensitivity. Dr. Fine has patented some stool tests for gluten sensivity that can be obtained without a doctor's prescription. There's a lot of good information on his web site too.
I'm extremely impressed with Dr. Lewey as well as Dr. Fine. They seem to be way ahead of the others in understanding how widespread the effects of gluten sensitivity can be. I'm really interested in what your thoughts are about them and their articles.
1. Gluten Sensitivity: A Gastroenterologist's Personal Journey Down ...
Gluten Sensitivity: A Gastroenterologist's Personal Journey Down the Gluten Rabbit Hole by Dr. Scot Lewey. This article appeared in the Winter 2007 edition ...
http://www.celiac.com/articles/1101/...wey/Page1.html
1. A clinical laboratory serving the medical community and the public ...
Early Diagnosis Of Gluten Sensitivity: Before the Villi are Gone. Transcript of a talk given by Kenneth Fine, M.D. to the Greater Louisville Celiac Sprue ...
https://www.enterolab.com/StaticPage...yDiagnosis.htm
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---------------------Molly97 said:Zoe,
I find that my biggest problem is soy, not limited to msg. At some point, could you elaborate on the difference between glutimate and glutamate as I have some confusion there too.
Leaving breads and such alone are not really too challenging for me; I've never been a bread/cereal eater per se. When I eat cereal, I am careful to eat oatmeal which is not problematic for me, but I realize that there are those who would have problems doing that.
I think the biggest misunderstanding in this whole gluten intolerance thing is that it is limited to grains. It's more than that, if I understand it correctly.
-----------------Zoe said:I agree with you about grains not being the whole story with sensitivity. One thing that is turning up is that the long term untreated gluten sensitivity can lead to problems with beaking down fatty acids, leading to a deficiency in them. What all the implications are, I don't know yet, and am looking this up too.
I'm thinking the glutamate in beans is not in the same form as the glutamate that is neurotoxic. Glutamate in the diet converts to glutamine, a very important amino acid that is not toxic. That's why I'm wondering about the glutamate in beans. If I can't find the information, I will email DogtorJ and ask him.
Fortunately, I am not having a problem with soy, though a it is a problem for a lot of folks who are gluten sensitive. Some of the food intolerances may be due to injury and can be overcome when they've been removed from the diet for a while. Isn't this the approach used in the GARD diet? Ha! I just saw a typo in my last post to you. I meant to say that in combining the two diets, you could just exclude from the gluten free diet those foods that are removed in the GARD diet.
I'm really curious now about the difference between glutimate and glutamate and will go look it up.
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Well, so far CWE showed up in my search and it looks like glutimate is a misspelling of glutamate.Hmmm...more to follow.
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Yea, it's looking like glutimate is a typo, very common too. It is turning up in MSG links and MSG is MS-glutamate. Glad I didn't ask a scientist! If any such critter as glutimate turns up I'll post it. Otherwise, off to more searching on glutamate.
--------------nana1 said:anyone can ya help me!!! this may not be the correct place to ask this, but here it goes.
I have stoped eating bread all together, question is, what products may have breads in them that i would want to stay away from.? I want to slowly start on a diet, but neurologist said since my medcine got my body out of wack i start slow, so i started cutting bread, next may be cheese not to sure. Just found out my chosleterl level is high also.
------------------Zoe said:Hi Nana,
You can get a lot of information on the celiac forum:
http:www.celiac.com
Can you get in to see a nutritional counselor? Your doc should be able to refer you to one or a registered dietician who can help you plan your diet.
------------------------Molly97 said:Zoe,
Somewhere along the way, Robin posted a site that had a chart showing the glutamate levels of lots of different foods. I printed it off and have it in my nutritional notebook. Sorry. I don't have the site saved or written down somewhere. Robin, do you know what I'm talking about?
Zoe said:I'd like to see the list. Also, I wrote a note to Mark Messina, PhD, who did research on soy for the NIH. I asked him if the glutamate in food, like beans is in the same form and as toxic as the glutamate in MSG and processed soy foods. Robin, if you see this can you repost your information on glutamate?
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The glutamate mystery deepens. Here's a link to the International Food Council's page on glutamate:
http://www.ific.org/publications/brochures/msgbroch.cfm
According to the article, the glutamate in food is the same glutamate as in MSG. Yet, other places are talking about two forms of glutamate, bound (to another molecule) and free, each acting differently in the body. Glutamate is a necessary nutrient. If all glutamate were toxic, why doesn't everyone with seizures react to the many foods high in glutamate. I do not have a good understanding of this and am looking for more information.
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This abstract is rather technical but does explain some aspects of glutamate toxicity. The question now is, do we metabolize the glutamate in food differently than the glutamate in processed foods, like MSG. Feedback?
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1: Neurochem Int. 2006 May-Jun;48(6-7):650-6. Epub 2006 Feb 28.
Short-term fasting, seizure control and brain amino acid metabolism.
Yudkoff M, Daikhin Y, Nissim I, Horyn O, Luhovyy B, Lazarow A, Nissim I.
Department of Pediatrics, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, University of
Pennsylvania School of Medicine, 19104, USA. yudkoff@email.chop.edu
The ketogenic diet is an effective treatment for seizures, but the mechanism of
action is unknown. It is uncertain whether the anti-epileptic effect presupposes
ketosis, or whether the restriction of calories and/or carbohydrate might be
sufficient. We found that a relatively brief (24 h) period of low glucose and low
calorie intake significantly attenuated the severity of seizures in young
Sprague-Dawley rats (50-70 gms) in whom convulsions were induced by
administration of pentylenetetrazole (PTZ). The blood glucose concentration was
lower in animals that received less dietary glucose, but the brain glucose level
did not differ from control blood [3-OH-butyrate] tended to be higher in blood,
but not in brain, of animals on a low-glucose intake. The concentration in brain
of glutamine increased and that of alanine declined significantly with
low-glucose intake. The blood alanine level fell more than that of brain alanine,
resulting in a marked increase ( approximately 50%) in the brain:blood ratio for
alanine. In contrast, the brain:blood ratio for leucine declined by about 35% in
the low-glucose group. When animals received [1-(13)C]glucose, a metabolic
precursor of alanine, the appearance of (13)C in alanine and glutamine increased
significantly relative to control. The brain:blood ratio for [(13)C]alanine
exceeded 1, indicating that the alanine must have been formed in brain and not
transported from blood. The elevated brain(alanine):blood(alanine) could mean
that a component of the anti-epileptic effect of low carbohydrate intake is
release of alanine from brain-to-blood, in the process abetting the disposal of
glutamate, excess levels of which in the synaptic cleft would contribute to the
development of seizures.
PMID: 16510212 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Related Links
Metabolism of brain amino acids following pentylenetetrazole treatment. [Epilepsy
Res. 2003] PMID:12576176
Seizure resistance is dependent upon age and calorie restriction in rats fed a
ketogenic diet. [Epilepsy Res. 1999] PMID:10232791
A ketogenic diet has different effects upon seizures induced by maximal
electroshock and by pentylenetetrazole infusion. [Epilepsy Res. 2000]
PMID:10642038
Neuronal-glial interactions in rats fed a ketogenic diet. [Neurochem Int. 2006]
PMID:16542760
Ketogenic diet, brain glutamate metabolism and seizure control. [Prostaglandins
Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2004] PMID:14769486
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