Revisiting Magnesium

[AlohaBird]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090324213335.htm

In this article they talk about a study done about people who have a genetic flaw that causes them to lose magnesium like crazy. The actual study is scientifically dense but worth venturing into if this interests you.

The thing that became apparent from reading both is how vital a link the kidneys are in this process. The gene flaw that causes this disorder causes a defect in absorption of Mg by the kidneys.

This jumped out at me for two reasons. One, i only have one kidney. congenital defect.

Two, I have been doing really well with a 50% dose of my phenobarbitol Rx, sleeping perfectly soundly. (My E is nocturnal).
Then a couple of nights ago I was awoken by a partial in my left arm. The only thing I had done differently that day was that I had neglected to take my bedtime Mg supplement. Left it in the guest bathroom and didn't even notice it until the next day when I put two and two together. (So I wasn't psyching myself out by worrying or anything).

I got right back on the Mg supplement and have had no more problems so I don't think the reduced med is the causal factor here.

http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=19511

This article goes into some of the reasons why most Mg tests are pretty pointless as well as listing many of the reasons why we need Mg (e.g. a necessary precursor to seratonin) and some of the disorders that can result from Mg deficiency (e.g. seizures when it is chronic and/or severe).

I have read that the craving for chocolate is really a craving for Magnesium which I choose to believe.

What if I am one of those people with a gene flaw or simply the deficit in uptake caused by a missing kidney?

Mg supplementation is a very easy fix. I am using a transdermal oil (The Life-flo brand found on Amazon). It is possible to get a very large dose with a transdermal without any of the digestive upsets that oral mega doses can cause.

I had thought of my Mg supplement as just a general good health measure but i think I am moving it over to the category of things that actually have a measurable impact on the E.

I know Mg was kind of a "craze" a few years back. Any updates on experiences from the CWE community?

 

[AlohaBird]

In this thread a while back I talked about how a can of coconut water saved me from having a bad night while on vacation.

http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f23/praise-coconut-water-25152/

The common denominator is the magnesium.

Interesting when you start seeing patterns.

 

[Nakamova]

Magnesium is crucial to the brain and body in so many ways. Like all the "ums", mg helps to regulate nerve function at the cellular level, helping to open and shut the gates for transmission of nerve impulses. It plays a role in relaxing muscles -- so it can potentially help with cramps, jerks, tics, digestive functions and even high blood pressure (the heart is a muscle too). It's well-known to help with pre-eclampsia in pregnant women. And it can help with sleep. It's important for metabolizing calcium and vitamin D, and just for that reason alone, it should figure into a healthy diet.

Although it's present in a lot of foods, I'm thinking that most folks don't get enough, especially since many of our fruits and vegetables have fewer nutrients than they used to due to soil depletion and other farming practices. Since mg can't be measured with standard blood serum tests, there's no easy way to tell if you're lacking unless you ask for one of the more accurate tests, and/or experience symptoms of a major deficiency. As you mention AlohaBird, mg levels can be affected by suboptimal kidney functioning. Absorbing/retaining magnesium can also be a problem if you have gut or gallbladder issues.

My personal experience with Mg is not directly seizure-related, but has to do with restless leg syndrome (RLS). I occasionally suffer a mild form of RLS (not the leg kicks that some people experience at night, but an odd nagging sensation that my legs need to move.) When this occurs I take a magnesium supplement and get relief. Interestingly enough, RLS has been associated with conditions including "iron deficiency, varicose vein or venous reflux, folate deficiency, magnesium deficiency, fibromyalgia, sleep apnea, uremia, diabetes, thyroid disease, peripheral neuropathy, Parkinson's disease and POTS and certain autoimmune diseases such as Sjögren's syndrome, celiac disease, and rheumatoid arthritis." Quite a few of the conditions on that list have been linked with epilepsy and/or epilepsy medications.

Magnesium isn't a cure-all -- and some people may not notice any benefit from a supplement or a dietary boost -- but I think it's potential benefits have been overlooked for people with epilepsy and for the general population.

 

[Ruth]

I did not know that MG affects the kidneys and seizures.

I have a scarred kidney. My neurologist says that I am taking 2 epilepsy medications that affect the kidneys. They are Gabapentin and Keppra.

I am going to start taking my MG supplement again.

 

[Nakamova]

Hi Ruth --

it's always a good idea to check with your doc before starting any kind of supplement. Also, there are different kinds of magnesium supplements -- some are better absorbed, some are easier on the stomach, etc.

 

[Ruth]

Hi Nakamova,

What are some of the better supplements? Which ones are better absorbed?

I have Natural Magnesium with Chelated Zinc. It has 400 mg MG. and 15 mg of zinc.

 

[AlohaBird]

The Transdermal spray I have (Life-flo brand) says you get 66mg of Mg per four spray pumps but I use about three times that much so close to 200mg.

The lady who wrote The Magnesium Miracle a few years back has her own line of trans dermal mg to called ReMag. I'm sure it's wonderfully but it's a bit pricey.

The thing about trans dermal is that you can push lot more in without any tummy upset.
Another way to get it into the system via the skin is epsom salt baths. I think the skin knows how much to let in so I doubt it would be possible to "O.D." on epsom salts or Mg oil. I find if I put about six sprays on each leg it soaks in great but if I try to use more than that it feels greasy and stays on top of the skin.
BTW Mag "oil" really isn't an oil anyway. It is a aqueous solution of Mg.

If you take too much Mg orally, you will be dashing for the loo. That doesn't necessarily mean however that you don't need any more Mg, only that your digestive system is not capable of taking it all in at once. If you space Mg pills out over the day, you may have better results.

So, this is what we know so far.

Mg is crucial for many functions in the body many of which directly affect neurological health.
Tests for Mg in the blood don't really tell you much.
The USRDA of Mg is only a guess and only apples to people who have no problems retaining and absorbing Mg.
Mg is depleted from the soil that should be giving us what we need.
Those of us who have any kidney issues may need extra Mg.
Those of us who take meds (most everybody here) may need extra Mg.
Those who have gut or other digestive issues (which can also be caused by the meds thankyouverymuch Big Pharma) may also need supplemental Mg.

Like Nak, I first started taking Mg now and then for my legs but mine was for night time calf cramps instead of restless leg syndrome. It worked but it is only recently that I have gotten consistent about taking it enough to notice that, when I don't take it, there is a clear negative effect on my epilepsy control.

 

[Nakamova]

If you take too much Mg orally, you will be dashing for the loo.

Some forms are more likely to be problematic than others. I take magnesium taurate (taurine is neuroprotective as well as good for the heart). It doesn't have any laxative properties and is easily absorbed.

Magnesium glycinate is a form that's also very unlikely to cause diarrhea and is very well absorbed.

Magnesium chloride contains relatively little mg, but what it does contain is absorbed better than other varieties. It's also supposed to be good for the kidneys.

Magnesium malate is supposed to be good for promoting energy because of the role that malic acid plays in certain enzymes. I haven't tried it myself, but I may someday just out of curiosity.

Magnesium carbonate is basically what's in Tums -- it's chalky-tasting and acts as an antacid, so best for reflux and similar issues.

Magnesium citrate is inexpensive and easily absorbed, but it's slightly more likely to mess with your bowels than some of the others mentioned above since citric acid also has mild laxative properties.

The forms of magnesium I would suggest that folks stay away from are magnesium oxide, magnesium sulfate, mg aspartate and mg glutamate. Those last two aren't recommended for people with epilepsy because they contain excitatory neurotransmitters. Mag Oxide is poorly absorbed. Sulfate is the one that's "best" for treating constipation, and is easy to overdo (with unfortunate consequences).

It's also possible to take Mg in liquid form. I think one CWE member (RobinN?) takes the Jigsaw brand. If I remember right, she found that her migraines went away entirely once she started supplementing with magnesium.

 

[AlohaBird]

Magnesium chloride contains relatively little mg, but what it does contain is absorbed better than other varieties. It's also supposed to be good for the kidneys.

Hmm. That's the kind that is in my Mg oil.

It's also possible to take Mg in liquid form. I think one CWE member (RobinN?) takes the Jigsaw brand. If I remember right, she found that her migraines went away entirely once she started supplementing with magnesium.

Yes It was her. I ran across a few of her posts on it. Come to think of it, my migraines are gone too since I have been using it consistently. I'll look up that liquid one. I'm trying to find alternatives to more pills wherever possible.
Thanks, Nak. You are a veritable fount of information.

 

[lindsayschu2]

Massive difference in my life here. It's made a huge difference in my seizure control--I'm fairly certain I was very deficient though and that was actually causing seizures--I was having diarrhea for months and tested deficient in potassium, on the low end in serum magnesium, but that didn't tell the whole story. I couldn't get my potassium up even with supplements, a typical marker for magnesium deficiency. I was having myos day and night, sometimes status despite 3 meds. Now that I have gotten my electrolytes in order things have calmed down so much. The other things I notice is muscle tightness and cramping--If I keep up on magnesium (and the right level of sodium) those go away completely and otherwise are a constant problem. I split between transdermal and oral glycinate/malate (InnovixLabs, good brand)--hedging my bets since I haven't really seen convincing science yet on which absorbs better, transdermal vs oral. If you have, I'd be interested in seeing the apples to apples comparison! Also going through 'a female transition' and having an easy time of it comparatively, and I attribute that largely to magnesium as well. I was having migraines every day for 5 days in a row each month--haven't had one in 8 months now.

 

[AlohaBird]

I found a really great comprehensive guide to all the various forms of magnesium by Dr. Mercola.

http://products.mercola.com/magnesium-supplement/

There is evidently one more recently developed form that was not on Nak's list called Magnesium L-Theonate.

I found a brand on Amazon that is supposed to be a combo of the three most absorbable and neuro-protective ones,

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Stacks-Magnesium-L-Threonate-MAGNESIUM/dp/B00HZWHGJ4/ref=sr_1_27?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1433027641&sr=1-27-spons&keywords=magnesium+taurate"]Amazon.com: Natural Stacks MAGTECH with Magnesium L-Threonate BRAIN MAGNESIUM COMPLEX: Health & Personal Care@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xWaQxvLdL.@@AMEPARAM@@51xWaQxvLdL[/ame]

It has the taurate that Nak takes plus glycinate and that new one , the L-Theonate.

 

[AlohaBird]

Massive difference in my life here. It's made a huge difference in my seizure control--I'm fairly certain I was very deficient though and that was actually causing seizures--I was having diarrhea for months, sometimes severe, and tested deficient in potassium, on the low end in serum magnesium, but that didn't tell the whole story. I couldn't get my potassium up even with supplements, a typical marker for magnesium deficiency. I was having myos day and night, sometimes status despite 3 meds. Now that I have gotten my electrolytes in order things have calmed down so much. The other things I notice is muscle tightness and cramping--If I keep up on magnesium (and the right level of sodium) those go away completely and otherwise are a constant problem. I split between transdermal and oral glycinate/malate (InnovixLabs, good brand)--hedging my bets since I haven't really seen convincing science yet on which absorbs better, transdermal vs oral. If you have, I'd be interested in seeing the apples to apples comparison! Also going through menopause and having an easy time of it comparatively, and I attribute that largely to magnesium as well.

That's great to hear, Linsay.

There is so much info out there, it can be a little overwhelming. I think choosing supps though is one place where it pays in the long run to do some research and maybe spend some more money for "the good stuff" and not the drugstore generic. You might pay half as much for a cheaper Mg supp but if you are only absorbing half as much then you are getting what you payed for.

 

[Ruth]

Another way to get it into the system via the skin is epsom salt baths. I think the skin knows how much to let in so I doubt it would be possible to "O.D." on epsom salts or Mg oil.

It is possible to overdose on Epsom Salts. I have Diabetes Type 2. My feet were sore and I asked my doctor if I should try Epsom Salts. He told me that people with Diabetes cannot have Epsom Salts.

I am going to look up the list of Magnesium's that Nakamova put up. I think I will find the one that is right for me. I will let you know what I find out.

I wonder if it will help my Parkinson's too. Since it works on muscle cramps, it might work on my jerks.

 

[AlohaBird]

I found this on the American Diabetes Association website in response to someone posting the official WebMD warning against Epsom Salts for diabetics:

"The warning against Epsom Salt for people with diabetes strikes me as part of the one-size-fits-all CYA advice given to people with diabetes about foot care.

If you have neuropathy and low blood circulation, then yes, your feet are in danger. An injury or infection that you are too numb to notice can fester, and because of low circulation, heal slowly and develop into a major problem before you might know it exists. Cracks on the feet that could let in germs may be the starting point for infections, and soaking in Epsom Salts or other chemical **could*** be problematic.

But many of us do not have neuropathy and our blood circulation may be quite normal. So the warnings that are given to all people with diabetes really should be applied to those to whom it really is relevant. When Web MD or some other online source issues blanket warnings they do so because they don't know the particular circumstances of each person reading that advice. So they give you the most conservative the most protective advice."

I don't have diabetes but this seems to make good sense to me. It is more a warning about potential foot injuries, not anything to do with the actual magnesium. YMMV it seems.

 

[Ruth]

I found this on the American Diabetes Association website in response to someone posting the official WebMD warning against Epsom Salts for diabetics:

"The warning against Epsom Salt for people with diabetes strikes me as part of the one-size-fits-all CYA advice given to people with diabetes about foot care. YMMV it seems.

I have seen diabetics have the lost of one or more feet because they wait for neuropathy to strike. Since I was diagnosed with Diabetes, about 20 years ago, I have babied my feet. I check them everyday. I use a special cleanser for my feet. I put lotion on my feet. I buy expensive shoes for Diabetics. I see a foot doctor in case I may have missed something. The feet are the first to go.

It is a one-size fits-all for diabetics. Epsom Salts can cause cracks and infections in Diabetics.

What does YMMV mean? Also, CYA.

 

[AlohaBird]

CYA is slang for "Cover your A$$" often meant in the legal sense like the disclaimer that has to be on all health information about consulting your doctor first.

YMMV is internet slang for "Your Mileage May Vary" meaning each case is unique and what works for one doesn't work for another.

The person on the Diabetes Association website was saying that he didn't feel that the WebMD warnings applied to him since he has no neuropathy and no circulation issues in his feet.

ETA: I don't have diabetes myself but I did do daily care for someone with it (my Dad) for several years. We cured his diabetes through a paleo diet. But the day he told me, "I think I am about ready to try that crazy diet of yours", he was having peripheral neuropathy pains so bad he said it was like walking on broken glass, just to give you an indication of how bad it had gotten.

During his recovery, he really enjoyed regular epsom salt foot baths. He said that the biggest problem for him with foot care was callouses cracking open and that the epsom salts helped soften the callouses so that he could remove them easily. I didn't know at the time that it was also a Magnesium treatment. He suggested the epsom salts saying that they were an old family remedy that he remembered his dad using after a hard day working as a carpenter.

So, YMMV.

 

[Ruth]

That is very true, What works for one person may not work for another.

I use to keep my tryclicerides under control. They are in meat, so I have had to cut back on meat. I haven't cut it out.

Thank you for sharing about your Dad.

 

[AlohaBird]

Actually, the best thing you could do for your triglycerides is reduce your carbs.

Some information you may not get from a traditional cardiologist who hasn't kept up on the newer research:

http://paleoforlifeblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/paleo-cholesterol-results.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christiane-northrup/saturated-fat_b_4914235.html

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[AlohaBird]

But back to Magnesium.....

One thing Dr. Mercola pointed out above is that there is often an additive in Mg and other supplements called Magnesium Stearate but that one shouldn't be fooled by the name into thinking it is a type of beneficial magnesium.
It is really an anti-adherant. From Wikipedia:
"Magnesium stearate is a major component of "bathtub rings." When produced by soap and hard water, magnesium stearate and calcium stearate both form a white solid insoluble in water, and are collectively known as "soap scum."[12]"

Ew.

Anyway I did a bunch more googling last night and finally came up with a soap scum free Mg supplement that is of the L-Theonate variety. Dr. Mercola also sells one but his is massively overpriced and chronically out of stock.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Best-Brain-Magnesium-60-Count/dp/B008NIHCS4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370628189&sr=8-1&keywords=B008NIHCS4"]Amazon.com: Doctor's Best Brain Magnesium Vegetarian Capsules, 75 mg, 60 Count: Health & Personal Care@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vnWhDYKnL.@@AMEPARAM@@41vnWhDYKnL[/ame]

This is Dr. Perlmutter weighing in on the L-Theonate advances:
http://www.drperlmutter.com/magnesium-threonate-powers-brain/

 

[Nakamova]

My usual "caveat emptor": mg L-threonate looks very promising, but all the studies so far have been at the animal stage. I hope it works just as well in humans, but it may take a while before those kinds of confirmational studies occur. On the plus side, magnesium tends to be very safe for humans, so the risk-reward calculation is simpler AlohaBird, definitely keep us posted on how the l-threonate makes you feel.