temporal lobe epilepsy and stress hormones

[elizzza811]

I still don't think things are quite as simple as you describe, at least with certain types of OCD, or perhaps it's because my brain has been in this OCD loop for 26 years (and counting). And actually thinking back, I probably had OCD even longer than that, by junior high school, just not 'classic' germ-phobia OCD. I wasn't responsible for the laundry, the cleaning of the bathroom or kitchen, etc...back then. Plus, it wasn't exactly my owned 'territory' to have to keep it clean.

My responsibilities back then were getting ready for school, doing my homework, and looking pretty for boys. And my OCD way of living up to these responsibilities and coping with them included copying my homework over and over again (every time I had to erase something or a letter didn't look 'right' to me in some way, wasting paper), doing my hair 'perfectly' (not a hair out of place), sleeping while sitting up (to avoid smushing my perfect hair) - in fact, I did this one for 3 years. And for those same 3 years I believe I suffered from a pretty serious case of anorexia nervosa, weighing in at only 78lbs in 7th grade, 81lbs in 8th, and 84lbs in 9th (I'm 5'4"). I didn't make myself throw up, didn't take laxatives, diet pills, or anything like that. What I did do was force myself to adhere to a strict diet of a bowl of cereal for breakfast and something not-good-for-you-junky for dinner, so as not to feel as if I was starving to death. On top of this strict diet, I excercized like a nut for 3 years - having to do 100 sit-ups, 100 toe-touches, 100 this and thats for one full hour. Plus I jogged in the summer months. I used to ace physical fitness tests in school, except I couldn't do even one pull-up/chin-up, only because I was so emaciated, my bony arms couldn't lift me! I was eventually taken to the doctor because the school nurse became concerned, and basically he asked me if I made myself throw up (no), if I took laxatives or diet pills (no), and sent me off on my merry anorexic way. My parents never pushed it, probably because 'mental illness' was some kind of embarassment to them. So I probably had OCD since I was 13, and I'm 46 now...that's 33 years. Whether I did OCD things even before this, I'm not sure.

But back to the reasons I don't think this technique will work with me (or quite possibly anyone with serious OCD)...isn't trying to imagine all the things you suggested (that silly clown or that piece of wood floating down the stream) just a reinforcement of the thought control process? For example, one of my physical symptoms is this relentless clenching of my teeth. Now if I think and tell myself to unclench them, I can. But if my mind wanders off onto something else, I'll notice they are clenched again, even though I never 'thought' them to re-clench. It's just not feasable to force yourself to think a thought (even a calming one) for the entire length of a task.

And if this technique really worked, I don't think serious cases of OCD like mine would even exist, simply because it is so simple. And like I mentioned before, I can't avoid certain tasks...I have to do laundry, clean the bathroom occasionally, bathe, etc...and as soon as I begin the task at hand, OCD is standing right there to torture me, even if the task at hand has been left standing for months...I rarely forget the ritual. But even times I had, I just made up a new one to replace the ones forgotten.

I just think there has got to be more to OCD than the abnormal thought process. For one thing, why do OCD sufferers from all over the world all experience similar symptoms according to their 'type' of OCD. Why are we all washing our hands for hours or rechecking the stove or driving around the block in fear that we hit someone? If it were merely a thought process gone awry, OCD sufferers wouldn't all be doing similar rituals. There has got to be an infection or an exposure (to EMFs?) to be triggering this abnormal thought process and crazy response, and if this is the case, expecting me to just imagine my OCD away by thinking calming thoughts is kind of like expecting me to control the tumor cells growing in my breast. As much as I wish I could, it just isn't going to happen...it's not that simple.

Something had to have screwed up my thought-response process, something apart from me. I'm sure other people, for example, drive down the road, hit a bump, and momentarily wonder if they hit a person or an animal. But most people with this thought might look in their rearview once and continue on, rationalizing that if they did indeed hit a person, the cops would eventually knock at their door. A person with OCD can't do this. They've thought the same thought you did (I might have hit someone), but a ritual is somehow born. My daughter also has OCD, so there has to be a gene or a common contangion or an exposure of some type, and if that's the case, I simply can't control the uncontrollable.

 

[NeuroNotes]

I still don't think things are quite as simple as you describe,

Thank you for your detailed response, elizzza. It's NOT easy, but the methods ARE simple and effective. Profoundly simple, yet simply profound. You have to fool your dumb brain. LOL If you watch a horror movie, you know it's not real, but your body reacts as if it were - exact same chemicals released as if experiencing the real thing. That's what makes the horror movie effective - the mind-body connection. Your brain gets duped. That's not to say that people with permanent brain damage or tumors (in specific regions of the brain) have control over their thoughts, because we know that certain types of damage can affect the way a person thinks and perceives their world. It could be that you are experiencing symptoms of brain damage that may have created the initial onset of epilepsy, but it was your OCD that was diagnosed first. There have been numerous studies showing that children who had experienced high stress such as abuse, and/or PTSD sustained brain damage caused by that trauma. Seizures can lead to brain damage too. Source

And for those same 3 years I believe I suffered from a pretty serious case of anorexia nervosa, weighing in at only 78lbs in 7th grade, 81lbs in 8th, and 84lbs in 9th (I'm 5'4"). I didn't make myself throw up, didn't take laxatives, diet pills, or anything like that. What I did do was force myself to adhere to a strict diet of a bowl of cereal for breakfast and something not-good-for-you-junky for dinner, so as not to feel as if I was starving to death. On top of this strict diet, I excercized like a nut for 3 years - having to do 100 sit-ups, 100 toe-touches, 100 this and thats for one full hour. Plus I jogged in the summer months. I used to ace physical fitness tests in school, except I couldn't do even one pull-up/chin-up, only because I was so emaciated, my bony arms couldn't lift me! I was eventually taken to the doctor because the school nurse became concerned, and basically he asked me if I made myself throw up (no), if I took laxatives or diet pills (no), and sent me off on my merry anorexic way.

Been there, done that...and so have countless females who have brought into the cultural pressure of perfection. Is every woman, girl who goes on a strict diet, who buys into the BS of physical perfection, OCD? The research suggest otherwise.

"The overlap of OCD and eating disorders: Obsessive-compulsive behavior in eating disorders

It is not uncommon for people with eating disorders to report that they suffer with OCD as well because of a variety of rigid beliefs and behaviors that plague them on a daily basis. Although these reports appear to be OCD at first glance, the focus on food, weight, and body makes these symptoms better accounted for by the eating disorder diagnosis than an additional OCD diagnosis. This idea is supported by a classic study conducted by Keys and colleagues." More/Source

But back to the reasons I don't think this technique will work with me (or quite possibly anyone with serious OCD)...isn't trying to imagine all the things you suggested (that silly clown or that piece of wood floating down the stream) just a reinforcement of the thought control process?

Have you already set yourself up for failure, a process started by your thoughts? Overwhelming evidence shows that the placebo effect is very powerful. There's nothing silly about visualization, for sure...and athletes are very familiar with this practice. They know it works. This doctor may have used an example that you can't relate too, but that doesn't deter from the effectual process. For example:

"You may have heard the term "mind-body connection" as it applies to the remarkable stories of healing and without surgery or stress management, but did you know there is actually a physical connection between the brain and muscles? It is called the neuromascular junction and chemical exchanges that happen at this junction are the key to your ability to move.

Where Mind Meets Body

The brain chemistry reveals an essential unity of mind and body. Neurons not only contact other neurons, they also connect with skeletal muscles, at a specialized structure called the neuromuscular junction. There the brain uses acetylcholine, its primary chemical neurotransmitter for memory and attention, to communicate with muscles.

In a fascinating experiment, researchers at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation discovered that a muscle can be strengthened ---> just by thinking about exercising it.

For 12 weeks (five minutes a day, five days per week) a team of 30 healthy young adults imagined either using the muscle of their little finger or of their elbow flexor. Dr. Vinoth Ranganathan and his team asked the participants to think as strongly as they could about moving the muscle being tested, to make the imaginary movement as real as they could.

Compared to a control group – that did no imaginary exercises and showed no strength gains – the little-finger group increased their pinky muscle strength by 35%. More/Source

For example, one of my physical symptoms is this relentless clenching of my teeth. Now if I think and tell myself to unclench them, I can. But if my mind wanders off onto something else, I'll notice they are clenched again, even though I never 'thought' them to re-clench. It's just not feasable to force yourself to think a thought (even a calming one) for the entire length of a task.

Our subconscious is much more active than our conscious. This is why some need to learn how to create 'deep' circuitry that affects the subconscious level and become aware of their internal dialog(s), which one may not be aware of until they start acting them out with rituals to appease their need to control their surrounding environment. Eventually, ritual turns into habit and then obsession. (neural networking)

And if this technique really worked, I don't think serious cases of OCD like mine would even exist, simply because it is so simple.

It takes approximately 20 days to create a habit. That means, it takes approximately 20 days to create a neural pathway. After years and years, it adds up and then what you have created are vast neural networks, and with every subconscious thought, you reinforce those networks.

I just think there has got to be more to OCD than the abnormal thought process. For one thing, why do OCD sufferers from all over the world all experience similar symptoms according to their 'type' of OCD.

I do see your point, but as an example, why do about 10% of people with temporal lobe epilepsy have intense religious experiences and feel 'chosen' - 'special'? Even atheist have experienced this, but the visions could easily be traced to the culture or some exposure to religious symbols, traditions that were stored by the brain. The experiences are always the same across all cultures, a god(s), a demon(s), fear, elation, emphasis on morality... but experienced through the filter of their culture. Several studies have shown that neural stimulation using low-intensity complex magnetic signals can induce a class of experience termed religious, mystic, or spiritual. This has been attributed to death anxiety (unaware).

"Freedom from fear of dying is a common theme in spiritual traditions of many derivations, and it's attainment is taken as evidence of spiritual growth. Dr. Persinger, and the rest of our research group place considerable weight on the notion that attenuating death anxiety is a crucial function of both human spirituality and limbic system function, and that its neural substrate can be accessed using limbic stimulation.

An EEG signal, derived from the amygdala, was processed so that an analog (complex) magnetic signal could be extrapolated from it (known as "burstx"). This same signal is applied over the dominant hemisphere (usually the left). The signal is specific to the amygdala, so if its applied only to the dominant hemisphere (whose amygdala is associated with positive affect), subjects report positive emotional states. When its applied over the right side, the usual result is dysphoria (an emotional state characterized by anxiety, depression, or unease.), both during and after the stimulation sessions. Source

Something had to have screwed up my thought-response process, something apart from me. I'm sure other people, for example, drive down the road, hit a bump, and momentarily wonder if they hit a person or an animal. But most people with this thought might look in their rearview once and continue on, rationalizing that if they did indeed hit a person, the cops would eventually knock at their door. A person with OCD can't do this. They've thought the same thought you did (I might have hit someone), but a ritual is somehow born. My daughter also has OCD, so there has to be a gene or a common contangion or an exposure of some type, and if that's the case, I simply can't control the uncontrollable.

In the video, it talks about desynchronization, a process causing an absence of synchronization. That desyncynchronization is key to recovery. My daughter experiences OCD but is in recovery. I once had a medication induced seizure that put me on deaths door and in ICU. She was with my parents when the doctor told them that I may not make it through the night. This created great fear in her - PTSD. At times she experienced symptoms on a sever level and developed several phobias. Her OCD got worse after I experienced identity theft/Internet fraud just a couple of years later. This experience changed our lives profoundly, and caused us both great fear and depression. It took me a long time to feel comfortable using the Internet again, but had I continue to stay fearful, I would have created more neural pathways of fear. The experience was quite traumatic. During that time I sent my daughter to my sisters, in another state, for several months while I dealt with the fallout. It was the first time we had ever been separated for more than a week at a time. The perpetrator was eventually convicted and sent to prison.

We both had nightmares after the experience. Even though she was assured that the perpetrator was behind bars for several years, she still had great fear of him showing up at our door step. He had gotten a hold of my social security number and was an expert with computers. She started checking the door locks over and over, sometimes 15 or 20 times before she would finally drift off to sleep. She never did this until she experienced this last trauma. Her fear and the profound negative experience created obsessive thoughts of not feeling safe, PTSD created her OCD symptoms. She still battles with it from time to time when she's under stress. When she feels safe, she doesn't obsess and feel the need to control her environment, even on a subconscious level. She did experience a very high fever caused by double pneumonia when she was around 18 months old, and was in an oxygen tent for about a week while in the hospital. This fever may have caused some form of brain damage (scarring) or lowered her electrical threshold, exacerbating her OCD like symptoms. However, cognitive training and visualization practices have been very effective for her after she's had a lapse. It's not easy, but it is simple.

"As scar tissue builds up, it prevents nerve growth in the brain. Without proper nerve growth, broken nerve connections are not fixed, resulting in a loss of, or difficulty in, function. This results in the symptoms displayed by patients with disorders involving brain scar tissue. In addition, if the build up of scar tissue is not treated, it can lead to a further deterioration in function." Source

When people experience serious trauma, it is only natural that they will try to control their environment in what ever means possible. Also, as was posted about strep throat, such infections appear to bring on the initial symptoms in some children (PANDAS), so I'm not stating that this is all in someones head (per se), and a person with OCD caused the initial condition, but they did contribute to the rewiring process. I apologize if my posts came across that way. I don't really know your history, and I've never been in your shoes, which is why I mentioned that I didn't want to come across as too assuming. I'm just sharing the research that has helped us. As was stated in the video - neuroplasticity is not always our friend, but we can work with it and use tools to make profound physical changes involving both mind and body, effecting chemical composition within the brain and body.

This young man used his faith to overcome his OCD - but ultimately, what he did was change his thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<obj...ays" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

 

[NeuroNotes]

You spoke about genes. I think you may find this documentary very interesting, when you can find the time. Towards the end he brings it all together, and it's quite a revelation when you begin to see the bigger picture. He also discusses the findings from SQUID technology that is quite mind blowing...or was for me, lol.

Part 1 Where Mind and Matter Meet - The Biology of Believe

Part 2

Stem cell biologist, bestselling author of The Biology of Belief and recipient of the 2009 Goi Peace Award and Best Science Book of the Year - 2006.

"Cellular biologists now recognize that the environment, the external universe and our internal physiology, and more importantly, our perception of the environment, directly controls the activity of our genes. This video will broadly review the molecular mechanisms by which environmental awareness interfaces genetic regulation and guides organismal evolution.

The Biology of Belief is a groundbreaking work in the field of New Biology. Author Dr. Bruce Lipton is a former medical school professor and research scientist. His experiments, and that of other leading edge scientists, have examined in great detail the processes by which cells receive information. The implications of this research radically change our understanding of life.

It shows that genes and DNA do not control our biology; that instead DNA is controlled by signals from outside the cell, including the energetic messages emanating from our positive and negative thoughts. Dr. Lipton’s profoundly hopeful synthesis of the latest and best research in cell biology and quantum physics is being hailed as a major breakthrough showing that our bodies can be changed as we retrain our thinking."

 

[elizzza811]

Again, as much as I'd like it, I don't believe it's quite that simple. And it wouldn't be possible for me or any human to essentially 'meditate' (on that piece of wood floating down the river) for the entire duration of a task, well-intentioned or not. If I was folding laundry, for example (that is, if I ever decide to unpack my clothes from 7 years ago, attempt to fold them, and put them in my closets as even normal people might, instead of folding them half-a**ed and throwing them in a disheveled, 'to-be-continued-someday' pile on the floor in my spare bedroom), I'd realistically have to have other thoughts while performing this task...normal thoughts like oops, this pants' leg is inside out...oops, gotta go get a hanger...oops, where's the other sock to this pair?...normal thoughts that even people without OCD might think while performing a task, and these thoughts would pretty much wipe out my meditative thought intentions in an instant.

I don't think it's possible to meditate while standing up anyway, not when the brain is involved in any active task. Different parts of the brain are firing depending on whether you're reading a book, having a conversation, or folding your laundry. Meditation (to me anyway) involves lying down on a comfortable mattress or blanket, the aroma of candles surrounding me, soft music playing, but most importantly, nothing around to disturb or interrupt my relaxation...

Also, if it really was that simple, why doesn't this method work with other physical diseases such as cancer? In other words, why can't cancer just be meditated away and essentially 're-wired' away? Don't forget that the immune system is also wired to brain (as you pointed out), and if simply rewiring the brain (through imagination and meditation) would cure OCD, then it should also work with other diseases, such as cancer.

My OCD was not the result of any trauma either. And though you mentioned your daughter has OCD (but is recovering), I really don't see her habit of checking the door locks as OCD simply because there is some sense of rationality in her checking the door locks after being faced with an intrusion of some type. Maybe this could be labeled as PTSD, but definitely not OCD. If she had OCD, trust me, you'd know it. OCD behaviors, by definition, are both excessive and irrational, and the OCD-er is completely aware of its craziness.

I do agree with you, however, that the terms OCD and anorexia nervosa are often overused, and misused at that. So many times I hear, "Oh, I'm OCD about that, too," or "Oh, I'm sort of anorexic." I only labeled my own anorexia nervosa as such and a form of OCD after my OCD diagnosis (long after my OCD diagnosis), but the thought processes were frighteningly similar between the two, and both clusters of behaviors involved excessive and irrational thoughts and behaviors. So I did, admittingly, lump the anorexia in with the OCD. But so have many researchers out there, as they're finding that the two disorders eerily overlap.

And I do believe that this dieting and exercising of mine was true anorexia nervosa. Though I agree, young girls often do diet and excercise in an attempt to conform to unrealistic societal standards, and that these habits aren't necessarily true anorexia nervosa, I've yet to meet a girl (other than a true anorexic) who could limit her diet as strictly as I did for 3 years (without cheating) and who could religiously stick to the daily hour-long calisthenics schedule I imposed upon myself for 3 long years. The only reason I was not 'officially' diagnosed with anorexia nervosa back then was because this disease wasn't really talked about back then (at least until Karen Carpenter's story hit the press hard).

And why did my anorexia nervosa miraculously disappear once I changed schools and started high school? I'm not exaggerating here either...my obsession with being thin, my perception of what being thin should look and feel like, my desire to control and limit my weight gain to the extreme...all of this vanished upon my entrance into high school...and I hadn't really changed anything thought-wise...all I did was physically change schools. This fact, physically changing schools, coupled with the account I posted earlier about the boy with OCD who could 'feel' manmade EMFs, suggests to me that an exposure of some type might have triggered my anorexia nervosa, and that by removing myself from that exposure (physically changing buildings), my anorexia mysteriously disappeared. Even the development of my more 'classic' OCD symptoms coincided with a move to another apartment.

And if I am correct and EMFs are a huge piece of the puzzle, how is anybody to meditate when they are constantly being lasered with EMFs, constantly trying to duck the microwaves? I just can't discount that boy's account in the "Saving Sammy" book, the boy who suffered from OCD and could 'feel' EMFs, as I really believe this is key. In fact, I read this book long after my suspicions that EMFs were involved in my illness were born, and I almost dropped the book when I read that part. This account just became the cement to my theories...

But to actually believe I am stronger than all the satellites floating in space and all the cell phone towers and radio and wifi antennas directed at me (and my brain) 24/7?...sorry, but I think I'd have to be the sun...or even God?...to achieve that...

 

[NeuroNotes]

Again, as much as I'd like it, I don't believe it's quite that simple.

Believe what you must to get well.

I don't think it's possible to meditate while standing up anyway, not when the brain is involved in any active task.

I never mentioned meditation, to my knowledge. I did included relaxation therapy techniques with regard to helping with stress, as was mentioned by the OP. Certainly meditation is beneficial, but this is not about meditation. We are talking about cognitive therapy training and mindfulness tools that have been proven effective and many have recovered...a high percentage.

Also, if it really was that simple, why doesn't this method work with other physical diseases such as cancer? In other words, why can't cancer just be meditated away and essentially 're-wired' away? Don't forget that the immune system is also wired to brain (as you pointed out), and if simply rewiring the brain (through imagination and meditation) would cure OCD, then it should also work with other diseases, such as cancer.

Why doesn't Chemo work for OCD?

My OCD was not the result of any trauma either.

You mentioned you thought that PTSD might have triggered.

And though you mentioned your daughter has OCD (but is recovering), I really don't see her habit of checking the door locks as OCD simply because there is some sense of rationality in her checking the door locks after being faced with an intrusion of some type. Maybe this could be labeled as PTSD, but definitely not OCD. If she had OCD, trust me, you'd know it. OCD behaviors, by definition, are both excessive and irrational, and the OCD-er is completely aware of its craziness.

Well the doctors apparently knew it, because she was diagnosed as having OCD, PTSD and situational depression. I just didn't go into the soap box version.

I think you should realize by now, based on our convos during PM and by my comprehensive posts on various subjects, that I don't focus on any specific or possible 'cure' for recovery. I thought I had made that clear, and that I believe, based on extensive research, that there isn't just one cause for these disorders, but that many variables may be involved. One person may get hit in the head and never have issues. Another might sustain an injury and live a life of suffering with multiple symptoms. Should you watch the documentary/lecture, perhaps he will explain it better than me.

And if I am correct and EMFs are a huge piece of the puzzle

But to actually believe I am stronger than all the satellites floating in space and all the cell phone towers and radio and wifi antennas directed at me (and my brain) 24/7?...sorry, but I think I'd have to be the sun...or even God?...to achieve that...

We are bombarded, yes...but there is hope. I just hope you don't give up hope. Thanks for sharing, and for reading my annoyingly long posts. I wish you well on your journey to wellness.

*hug*

 

[epileric]

Watch the last five minute of the video again, starting at minute marker 39:00, regarding brain exercises, neuroplasticity, and chemical changes. BDNF was a major factor.

That was very interesting. Apparently BDNF is being researched for many other things. Just remember that it stands for Brain-derived neurotrophic factor. I mention that because it is now available as a supplement which is totally useless. The reason being that BDNF is a protein and when we ingest any proteins they are broken down so that the BDNF does not enter our bloodstream.

If you eat a protein it will be broken down into amino acids and used as food — it will not get into the bloodstream unaltered. This is why protein-based drugs typically need to be given intravenously, to bypass the stomach.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/premature-claims-for-neurotrophic-factors/#more-17531