[Research] The Correlation between Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and Dissociative Identity Disorder

[roo]

Thanks for the article Cinnabar. It is a lot of food for thought.

Roo

 

[Cinnabar]

Thanks, roo. It is allot of food for thought. But worth reading through because I want members to understand that there is a correlation between Epilepsy and this Dissociative Condition. Some people know nothing about it or very little. Thanks for reading through.

 

[occb]

Note that not all patients with Temporal Lobe Epilepsy are necessarily ladden with DID. But the connection must be considered. Are absent seizures in fact dissociative "time loss"? Are personality changes (dissociation) a result of post-ictal states?

These are challenging questions.

It's very likely that allot of members believe that Dissociative Identity Disorder doesn't belong on platform here, believing it has nothing to do with Epilepsy. I wan't to bring awareness that the two are strongly inter-linked.

For an observer, an absence seizure and a dissociative moment look very much alike -- the glazed eyes, the affectless face. It's very surreal to see someone basically disappear for a while. Whether the brain is behaving in the same way, I don't know.

There's still so much that's not understood about the brain -- I had always thought that the frontal lobes housed what we understand as personality, but this link with the temporal lobes is interesting. Is the dominant personality actually in a state of seizure when it's tucked away and another alter comes through?

Do you know if there have been any EEGs done on people with DID and if anything shows up on there when alters emerge?

 

[Molly97]

For an observer, an absence seizure and a dissociative moment look very much alike -- the glazed eyes, the affectless face.

I'm not sure who you've observed being dissociative, but as a person who has lived the biggest part of my 62 years with DID, I can guarantee you that glazed eyes and an affectless face does NOT describe DID. My periods of dissociativity where I switched from one alter to another sometimes lasted for several months.

The losing time that Cinnabar referred to can be several minutes to several hours. Several times during my adult life, I lost entire summers; totally no memory of that time in my life except for what others have told me. It is the losing time that can last for a very short time that may indeed be an integrative DID/epilepsy moment. And how to determine which it is? I know that as I resolved my DID, my seizures became more frequent and worse. But which came first? For me, I had a combination of DID, epilepsy and sensory processing disorder which is in the autism spectrum of disorders. See my story over in the History Book and make any comments on it there to keep this thread from being hijacked a second time.

 

[occb]

I'm not sure who you've observed being dissociative, but as a person who has lived the biggest part of my 62 years with DID, I can guarantee you that glazed eyes and an affectless face does NOT describe DID.

I should have been clearer -- I don't have experience with DID, and was speaking about the dissociation you may see in people after a trauma such as sexual assault. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

EDIT: I have read your history and it is very interesting.

 

[Molly97]

Temporal lobe epilepsy

Dissociation is more common in patients with temporal lobe epilepsy than in any other neurologic disorder. The clinician should refer patients with dissociative symptoms for a thorough neurologic workup to rule out the presence of temporal lobe epilepsy or other organic processes. The standard EEG is of little help in distinguishing MPD from temporal lobe epilepsy because a high rate of nonspecific abnormalities has been detected in patients with MPD, most commonly bilateral temporal lobe slowing.

Temporal lobe epilepsy

Dissociation is more common in patients with temporal lobe epilepsy than in any other neurologic disorder. The clinician should refer patients with dissociative symptoms for a thorough neurologic workup to rule out the presence of temporal lobe epilepsy or other organic processes. The standard EEG is of little help in distinguishing MPD from temporal lobe epilepsy because a high rate of nonspecific abnormalities has been detected in patients with MPD, most commonly bilateral temporal lobe slowing.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/916186-diagnosis

 

[occb]

So if personality is mainly a frontal lobe function, and dissociation is a temporal lobe function, how do these two combine to create dissociative identity disorder? Are they all one personality and the temporal lobe mediates between which aspects are expressed and when? What happens in the brain when integration occurs?

And in both temporary and longer-lasting states of dissociation initially caused by trauma -- can trauma cause the temporal lobe to activate more than usual and possibly bring on a seizeure disorder, or does it only happen the other way around? That is where it gets knotty and confusing in my head.

EDIT: to be more clear -- when I speak of trauma in this case, I mean non brain-injury trauma, but severe emotional and psychological trauma. Can they cause temporal lobe epilepsy due to repeated dissociative events? I hope that's a little clearer. Maybe?

 

[Molly97]

For those of us on this site who accept and look for alternative ways of thinking and thinking outside the box, I offer the following:

Bearing this in mind, we are told by Alice Bailey that:

Certain forms of epilepsy are due to what we might call ‘a loose
connection,’ the consciousness stream or thread of energy is
subject at times to withdrawal or abstraction, and this produces the
familiar epileptoid symptoms and the distressing conditions seen in
the usual fit. In a lesser degree, and producing no permanent,
dangerous results, the same basic cause produces the so-called
‘petit mal’ and certain types of fainting fits; these are caused by the
brief and temporary withdrawal of the thread of consciousness
energy. It should be remembered that when this withdrawal takes
place and there is a separation of the consciousness from the
vehicle of conscious contact, all that we understand by the term
consciousness, such as self-consciousness, desire and
intelligence, is abstracted and only life and the consciousness
inherent in the physical body cells remain (Bailey, 1942, p. 418).11

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/Laura Harrison Multiple Personality Disorder; an Alternative Theory.pdf

 

[Molly97]

And going on from the above link:

This passage raises the possibility that temporal lobe epilepsy or TLE is
simply the result of an inability of the individual involved ‘to hold the
[consciousness] link within the brain with adequate positiveness’ as quoted in an
earlier passage. This suggestion that TLE is the result of brief withdrawals of
consciousness provides an explanation for the link between DID and temporal
lobe epilepsy. It follows that MPD occurs in those with TLE when the
consciousness thread of the owner of the physical body is disconnected from that
body for longer periods of time. Into this extended void of consciousness, steps
another conscious, discarnate being, with a separate emotional body, mental
body and soul. This explains the emergence of the ‘distinct identities’ referred to
by the DSM-IV. These discarnate identities are ‘in between lives’ (or incarnations)
on the physical plane. An outside entity ‘discarnate and most anxious for physical
plane expression’ attaches its own consciousness thread to the brain of the body,
in which the life thread in the heart remains attached to the original owner
(Bailey, 1942, p. 458).12 In summary, Bailey’s writings, therefore, suggest that in
some cases of epilepsy a ‘loose connection’ causes gaps in consciousness,
which have the potential to permit the entrance of other identities producing
multiple personality disorder

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/Laura%2...e Theory.pdf

 

[Molly97]

So if personality is mainly a frontal lobe function, and dissociation is a temporal lobe function, how do these two combine to create dissociative identity disorder? Are they all one personality and the temporal lobe mediates between which aspects are expressed and when? What happens in the brain when integration occurs?

And in both temporary and longer-lasting states of dissociation initially caused by trauma -- can trauma cause the temporal lobe to activate more than usual and possibly bring on a seizeure disorder, or does it only happen the other way around? That is where it gets knotty and confusing in my head.

EDIT: to be more clear -- when I speak of trauma in this case, I mean non brain-injury trauma, but severe emotional and psychological trauma. Can they cause temporal lobe epilepsy due to repeated dissociative events? I hope that's a little clearer. Maybe?

Are you offering this as a question that you'll google and get an answer for the rest of us to consider, or are you just positing out loud?

 

[Molly97]

There's still so much that's not understood about the brain -- I had always thought that the frontal lobes housed what we understand as personality, but this link with the temporal lobes is interesting. Is the dominant personality actually in a state of seizure when it's tucked away and another alter comes through?

Do you know if there have been any EEGs done on people with DID and if anything shows up on there when alters emerge?

occb,
Are you just throwing out questions or are you going to do some reading and sharing as well?

 

[Molly97]

Someone was talking about the frontal lobe being the seat of personality. I offer the following:

One of the most common effects of frontal damage can be a dramatic change in social behavior. A person's personality can undergo significant changes after an injury to the frontal lobes, especially when both lobes are involved. There are some differences in the left versus right frontal lobes in this area. Left frontal damage usually manifests as pseudodepression and right frontal damage as pseudopsychopathic (Blumer and Benson, 1975).

http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/bfrontal.shtml

But note the following about the temporal lobe and personality:

Seizures of the temporal lobe can have dramatic effects on an individual's personality. Temporal lobe epilepsy can cause perseverative speech, paranoia and aggressive rages (Blumer and Benson, 1975). Severe damage to the temporal lobes can also alter sexual behavior (e.g. increase in activity) (Blumer and Walker, 1975).

http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/btemporl.shtml

 

[occb]

Right now I'm just posing the questions -- I'm too tired for that kind of intensive research. I'll have to read the articles you posted above when I'm well rested. I'm trying to explore ideas that Laurie may find interesting (although I'm sure she's considered them before).

As per your last post -- certain injuries to the frontal lobes can cause that kind of affect, but that article is not proof that the frontal lobes don't hold a large portion of what we identify as personality. Frontal lobe injuries and FLE can also create emotional lability something you're implying is associated with TLE alone. The distinction of function between the two isn't quite so cut-and-dry.

 

[Molly97]

Right now I'm just posing the questions -- I'm too tired for that kind of intensive research. I'll have to read the articles you posted above when I'm well rested. I'm trying to explore ideas that Laurie may find interesting (although I'm sure she's considered them before).

As per your last post -- certain injuries to the frontal lobes can cause that kind of affect, but that article is not proof that the frontal lobes don't hold a large portion of what we identify as personality. Frontal lobe injuries and FLE can also create emotional lability something you're implying is associated with TLE alone. The distinction of function between the two isn't quite so cut-and-dry.

My point was that the personality as we know it resides in both the temporal lobes and the frontal lobes since injuries or insults to either can cause changes in personality. I thought you were the one implying that personality resides in the frontal lobes alone.

 

[DLThrasher]

Cinnabar... Thanks for that info.. My 14 year old daughter had her first seizure 7 months ago, so I'm new to all of this. I'm just learning. There is so much info to sort through. I just wanted to ask if seizures bring on depression, or did? Or does did and depression spark the seizures? Will you always have a "psychological" issues with epilepsy?

 

[Cinnabar]

Firstly, I must explaine that I have an invested interest in begining this thread and firing discussion because I have both Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and Dissociative Identity Disorder.

I had been aware that I had DID for five years before my first seizure episode. Having MRI in hand, my neurologist explained that my left hippocampal volume was 50% less than that of the right. The first question he asked me was if I had ever suffered early on trauma. The answer of course was "Yes". He went onto explain that the trauma stunted the growth of the left hippocampus

Hippocampal Volume

Another plausible neurobiological mechanism linking childhood trauma to dissociative difficulties with the integration of memory is smaller hippocampal volume. As mentioned above, the hippocampus, part of the limbic system situated in the middle portion of the temporal lobe, organizes memory storage and retrieval.

http://dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=11122

And I find this to be very interesting. Something I haven't come across until now.

Neurotransmitters convey information from one nerve cell to another, and a specific one may be involved in dissociation.

http://www.dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=11122

 

[Cinnabar]

Welcome DL. And yes there is allot of information to wade through. Which comes first the chicken or the egg?
This is the proverbial question in this thread. Before I go on any further I copied and excerpt from a link for you...

Describing childhood epilepsy

Epilepsy can begin at any age but it often starts early in life. Although some people believe it is linked with physical disability or mental handicap, in fact most children with epilepsy have exactly the same range of intelligence and abilities as unaffected children.

Some do have physical or mental problems as well as seizures, which may be linked to brain damage or disease. It's usually these underlying problems which have caused epilepsy, however, rather than the other way round.

http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/epilepsy_temporallobe

To answer your question

Will you always have a "psychological" issues with epilepsy?

I have Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. It's very common to experience visual and auditory hallucinations, Out of Body Experiences and an intense fascination with the spiritual realm and/or experience religious exctacy. I will always have psychological issues but after finally finding the right medication cocktail I've not experienced any of the aformentioned. Other forms of Epilepsy, let's say, are less exotic.

Note: There is no medication for DID. This is something that needs to be worked out in therapy.

What type of Epilepsy does your daughter have? There are many, many forms and it's important that the neurologist pinpoint the diagnosis. Then you can really begin your research from there. I hope I've been of some help.

 

[Molly97]

Cinnabar... Thanks for that info.. My 14 year old daughter had her first seizure 7 months ago, so I'm new to all of this. I'm just learning. There is so much info to sort through. I just wanted to ask if seizures bring on depression, or did? Or does did and depression spark the seizures? Will you always have a "psychological" issues with epilepsy?

I resolved my DID issues back in 2002 after 6 very long years of therapy and sorting through things. I don't suffer from bipolar(was once dx'd with it)or depression. So my experience is that no, you won't stayed locked up with psychological issues all your life if you work to resolve them. I continue to have seizures(I'm beginning to think that I too have temporal lobe epilepsy Cinnabar)and my problems with sensory processing plague me to this day. That said, I would rather have those two issues than the psychological issues I've had in the past. :twocents:

 

[DLThrasher]

Thanks for your quick reply Cinnabar.. My daughter was diagnosed with JME. But it is idiopathic. Clean mri, 2 ct scans and 2 eeg's. No known cause. I don't have alot of faith in the neurologist. I know that epilepsy is inigmatic, but he talks like he doesn't know much. Unfortunately, he's the only one in town that will deal with pediatric patients. He recommended meds, but my daughter and I have agreed to try some other way (which seems to be working fairly well so far). I haven't seen any psych problems yet, but she is 14, hasn't started her period yet and is moody. It's probably not a good time to try to figure out if she has depression. I read up on JME, but again to what gain? I can't find anything that I can really sink my teeth into. Do you have any suggestions?

 

[Cinnabar]

DL, I failed to mention that not all forms of seizures are accompanied by psychological problems such as Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Just a note.

A quote from the link provided below. Hopefully, you can sink your teeth into this one. I think a very good link.

Juvenile myoclonic epilepsy (JME) is one of the most common epilepsy syndromes. It accounts for 7% of all cases of epilepsy. The seizures of JME may begin between late childhood and early adulthood, usually around the time of puberty. Fifteen percent of children with childhood absence epilepsy later develop JME. It also is more likely in people who have family members with generalized epilepsy. The intellectual ability of people with JME is the same as that of people in general.

http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/epilepsy_juvenilemyoclonic