vaccines and epilepsy

[RobinN]

DogtorJ talks about virus and seizures in this article:
http://dogtorj.com/?page_id=3576

 

[dragonlady1978]

I have read alot of information about the possible link between vaccinations and things like autism and seizures.

How can it possibly be proven, other than from reports of parents who suspect the correlation after the fact? How can it possibly be disproven?

Frankly, the statistical rise in incidents of autism and seizures in children is enough to make me not want my child to be vaccinated. Had I known of it before, I would never have had any of my children vaccinated.

The reason I have researched this to begin with is because the last time my oldest child had her shots-which the school told me were mandatory for attendance and I later found to be a blatant lie-is that when the nurse was prepping her chart she asked if there was a history of seizures. My oldest does not, but my youngest has E-so I asked why it mattered. She told me that the doctor might choose not to do the vaccinations if there was recent activity, as there may be a link to increase in the possibility of seizures. This was the first I'd heard of it.

My son had all of his vaccinations up to the age 4 and no one ever mentioned that possibility to me. Do I blame vaccines for his epilepsy? No, seizure disorder is prevalent in my husbands family medical history. But I certainly think that as parents we deserve the right to the information that it may have ANY effect so that we can choose for ourselves what to do. There are too many incidents of neurological injury after vaccination to have those incidents be ignored.

I will not stick my head in the sand because the link has not been proven beyond a doubt. Knowing what I know now, I will never again allow any of my kids to be vaccinated. How many people have died or been afflicted with medical issues today because our FDA told us something was safe, only to find out decades later the harm that was caused?

For that matter, it HAS been proven in the past that vaccinations have had detrimental neurological effects. Why would it be so unbelievable that there is more to the story than we know today?

 

[Nakamova]

I know people feel passionately about this issue, so I hope not to offend with this: Statistically there is no link between vaccines and autism. That doesn't rule out the possibility that for some kids the vaccine may have played a role in triggering their autism. Recent studies have shown that some kids with autism have a genetic flaw that may make it difficult to process heavy metals. Given that many expectant mothers are exposed to heavy metals and other toxins in the environment, and that mercury was a component of some vaccines (but not since 2001), some kids with autism could be reacting to that mercury. The various causes that have led to the increase in autism diagnosis are likely multi-faceted, exposure to heavy metals being just one of many possible triggers.

That said, not getting childhood vaccines can create significant risks, especially for other children. Mumps, measles, and whooping cough are on the rise. Whooping cough reached epidemic levels in California in 2010. Eradicating viral diseases within the US can occur only with community-wide immunity. If parents choose not to vaccinate their children, they need to be aware of the disease's complications and potential consequences.

Links worth checking out:

http://www.drwalt.com/blog/?p=612
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/vaccination-guide.aspx

 

[RobinN]

That said, not getting childhood vaccines can create significant risks, especially for other children. Mumps, measles, and whooping cough are on the rise. Whooping cough reached epidemic levels in California in 2010. Eradicating viral diseases within the US can occur only with community-wide immunity. If parents choose not to vaccinate their children, they need to be aware of the disease's complications and potential consequences.

Let's say if my child is not vaccinated, and he is in a school with others that are vaccinated. The idea that my child might infect the other children is simply saying that the vaccine is not viable.

If I choose not to vaccinate it should be my decision, because if the vaccine were to be protective, my child is the only one that would be affected.

 

[epileric]

Dragonlady,

I agree wholeheartedly that we should not stick our heads in the sand & think it's great that you are checking things out but as was mentioned there was no statistical rise in autism with vaccinations. Japan Banned the vaccinations yet there still was a rise in autism.

The study shows that in the city of Yokohama the number of children with autism continued to rise after the MMR vaccine was replaced with single vaccines. "The findings are resoundingly negative," says Hideo Honda of the Yokohama Rehabilitation Center.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7076-autism-rises-despite-mmr-ban-in-japan.html

Also the initial study linking autism to vaccinations was discredited, the doctor who did the study has since lost his license.

We wish to make it clear that in this paper no casual link was established between the MMR vaccine and autism as the data were insufficient

http://nwautism.org/documents/researchersretract.pdf

 

[epileric]

Let's say if my child is not vaccinated, and he is in a school with others that are vaccinated. The idea that my child might infect the other children is simply saying that the vaccine is not viable.

No one has ever said vaccines are 100% effective. They're not. Some people won't form antibodies after immunization. Immunity also wears off, hence the need for boosters. Natural immunity also wanes over time - just ask someone who has had chicken pox or measles twice.

We rely on herd immunity and mass vax to protect people who cannot be vaccinated, either because of age or medical reasons. Herd immunity also protects those people for whom the vax doesn't work. And finally, it protects those whose immunity has waned or who have become immunocompromised. Another baby just died in Australia from pertussis ( whooping cough). Probably a baby too young to be vaxxed.

 

[hootie]

Robin--Interesting article...I wonder if the fluoride issue also applies to anesthesia. My son was sedated with sevoflurane (has fluoride as a component) for his MRI. His speech was affected for about 6 weeks post-procedure (decrease in speech). I also wonder if virus is a factor in his autism and/or seizures. His immune markers are always off (high lymphs) when we do a CBC. No one seems concerned but I still wonder why his lymphs are always high (seems like infection to me).

Dragonlady--I'm totally with ya!

Epileric--you say Japan banned vaccines, but the quote states that the MMR single shot was REPLACED by the three individual vaccines...so the children were still vaccinated.

 

[epileric]

Epileric--you say Japan banned vaccines, but the quote states that the MMR single shot was REPLACED by the three individual vaccines...so the children were still vaccinated.

Yes, people claimed the MMR vaccine was connected to autism, when it was proven not to they claimed it was thimerisol. Now that's been removed so they're just saying it's the "vaccine".

Whenever their claims are misproven they claim it's something else.

Also making such general claims implies to me that the claims are not based on evidence but assumed.

 

[hootie]

Different things affect people in various ways...for some it is probably the thimerisol, for others the live virus (MMR, polio in the past, etc) takes hold of the victim's immune system and causes damage, others react to the egg protein, etc.

BTW, I am pretty sure some vaccines still contain thimerisol (mercury) they now just call it "preservative".

Human diploid cells are from aborted babies...this is used in vaccines as well.

You can have your vaccines...

I'm OK with people choosing if they want this for themselves but I don't care to have people tell me which medical procedures my family or I should get.

 

[epileric]

There is a very small percentage of people that do react to various things in vaccines & that was never denied & is not denied or hidden.

It's the connection to autism that has been proven false.

As for the human diploid cells, isn't that a bit of an over dramatization there?

The viral stocks used to make some vaccines are grown in human cells. These cells were derived from aborted fetuses back in the 1960s and 1970s and have been propagated in cell culture continuously ever since. It's a huge difference between the famous lie of the anti-vaccine movement, parroted by Jenny McCarthy, that there are "aborted fetal parts" in vaccines. As I have pointed out, even the Roman Catholic Church, although disturbed by this fact, does not advocate foregoing vaccination for this reason. It recognizes that these cells are not fetal parts, that using them does not encourage abortion

 

[hootie]

I am not convinced that it has been proven false...just like the other poster said...don't know how you can prove/disprove it...
too many people report adverse effects...too many doctors/specialists say that there is no correlation of adverse effects from vaccines
when the evidence is right in front of them (not just autism).

I don't care what the catholic church thinks about it. The children were still aborted--they had no choice in the matter.

 

[epileric]

I am not convinced that it has been proven false...just like the other poster said...don't know how you can disprove it...

First of all, if someone is going to make such false accusations then it is up to them to prove what they are saying is true, not up to the accused to disprove it. However, In the 60's & 70's human diploid cells were used in Europe prior to being used or even licensed in the US. There was no increase in autism in Europe. Besides, had it been connected to the cultured cells then it would be transmitted with every use of the vaccine.

 

[hootie]

I'm not saying that aborted fetus cells cause autism. I am saying that I do not like the ingredients in vaccines...

Vaccines (like any drug--Rx or OTC) can cause adverse effects/damage to the recipient. It is not an intended effect, but it does happen to more people than is reported.

Just in my family (a small sample, there are more examples)...

--I start retaining water quickly if I take Motrin (not good for the kidneys), but I did not report my reaction to the FDA
--My hubby broke out in a full body rash after taking Amoxicillin...we did not report it to the FDA
--my son started biting his nails and poking at his eyes after increasing Depakote...I did not report it to the FDA
--My dad's eye started drooping after taking Lipitor and it went away when he stopped...it was not reported to the FDA
--My mom became very loopy/racing heart/dangerously high blood pressure with IV steroids while in the hospital with pneumonia...it was not reported to the FDA

It seems that with drugs, side effects are the rule, not the exception. It makes me angry that for some reason if something is FDA approved then people regard it as "safe" and doctors hand it out like it is candy...and they deny or get defensive if one would dare to question if the drug is causing the problem.

 

[epileric]

It seems that with drugs, side effects are the rule, not the exception. It makes me angry that for some reason if something is FDA approved then people regard it as "safe" and doctors hand it out like it is candy...and they deny or get defensive if one would dare to question if the drug is causing the problem.

Side-effects are not specific to drugs. When anything changes in your body other things change to compensate. When the amount of adrenaline lessens the amount of dopamine increases. Even lavender tea has side-effects of slowing breathing & heart rate, increased dopamine etc. That is why I get upset when someone tries to tell me that herbs or certain supplements have no side-effects.

It is physiologically impossible to change one thing in the body without changing other things.

That said, if you react badly to vaccinations then dont' take them but I don't like disproven or even unproven claims being made for or against anything we might put in our bodies.

 

[hootie]

I'm with you on that...my family react to EVERYTHING so I do understand that even natural things can cause adverse effects...

one son--allergic to soy(rash), nuts, peanuts, eggs(vomit), corn, rice, potato (potato now causes increased seizure activity, too...UGH!), not to mention the seasonal allergies

another son--allergic to nuts and peanuts (anaphylactic), eggs(vomit, diarrhea), dairy (hives, nausea), corn, fish and shellfish (on the verge of being scary)

hubby--now diabetic and seems to have aggravation of neuropathy if he even gets the slightest exposure to sugar (white sugar, sugar alcohols, honey, xylitol, etc), also starts coughing. Doing better on an Atkins type diet.

We try to avoid drugs, etc as much as we can because of all the reactions we get (even with natural "healthy" foods)...although as you can see, my one son is on an AED and my hubby is on insulin.

 

[Endless]

Folks, if you really want to decrease Autism, then have those babies when you are in your 20's. There is a definite relationship between the age of the father at conception and autism.

When fathers are in their thirties, children have about 1 1/2 times the risk of developing autism of children of fathers in their teens and twenties. Compared with the offspring of the youngest fathers, children of fathers in their forties have more than five times the risk of developing autism, and children of fathers in their fifties have more than nine times the risk.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/04/AR2006090400513.html

Why argue over vaccines, which have no overall cause-and-effect relationship with autism, and completely ignore something that has been proven DOES cause autism. Men are marrying and having children at a progressively older age now. Anybody who has an autistic child and the father was not in his 20's when the child was born, might have caused the situation due to the age of the father. Really sad, but true. Same as an older mother has a higher risk rate of downs syndrome.

And a whole host of other problems...

http://ageofthefatherandhealthoffuture.blogspot.com/

All of this makes adoption look like a better and better option, when in the 30's, 40's, and 50's. (In addition to the kindness and social responsibility aspects of it)

 

[Nakamova]

Unfortunately, humans are individuals -- unpredictable, idiosyncratic, ever-changing. And medicines are blunt instruments*. So mismatches, allergic reactions, and side effects are inevitable. Yes, vaccines and AEDs are blunt instruments, yes, drug companies are less-than-trustworthy, yes, doctors are often dismissive a-holes -- despite all this, the track record and benefits of vaccines make the benefits far outweigh the risks. (IMHO)

*AEDs are especially blunt because they have to be powerful enough to cross the blood-brain barrier.

 

[tase37]

our baby will soon be having her first vaccines..

 

[hootie]

I would make sure you check out if any are contraindicated due to seizure activity.:twocents:

 

[hootie]

And the plot thickens regarding vaccines causing autism...

Google Danish Researcher Indicted on Multiple Counts
(I can't post attachments yet)

Or search on ageofautism.com for the article.

Something fishy going on:secret: